Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
alemondemon

Nationals and population density

Recommended Posts

All values are approximations and the intended purpose of this post is to have more tournaments in North America.

 

 

The surface area of North America is approximately 9.54 million sq miles and the population is approximately 565.26 million. We had two national x-wing tournaments in North America (USA and Canada).

 

The surface area of Europe is approximately 3.931 million sq miles. The population of Europe is approximately 742.5 million people. Europe had 8 nationals tournaments (United Kingdom, Italy, France, Sweden, Germany, Poland, Holland and Spain).

 

This means, per capita North America had a national tournament per 282.63 million people over nearly 9.54 million square feet while Europe had a national tournament per 92.81 million people over 3.931 million square miles. The statistical conclusion is that Europe had over 3 times as many national tournaments per capita and a little over a third of the area than North America.

 

Since it is extremely impractical for someone in Mexico to travel to Indianapolis for a National tournament while in Europe most regions can be reached within a few hours by car for a majority of the population (with the exception of some of the very eastern countries and Greece). 

 

Request: Have more national level tournaments in North America and rename them if necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure you understand the concept of having a national championship.

 

I fully understand this concept, that is why I suggested to rename the event if necessary. This is a game after all, and the more events there are the more people are having fun and unfortunately a lot of people are not able to attend one set date per year, which may be over a thousand miles a way.

 

With that said, I am not sure you understand the concept of reading a post and having fun while playing a game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fully understand this concept, that is why I suggested to rename the event if necessary.

No, you don't get it. It's not about the name, it's about the fact that people want a national championship. You know, so they can try to win it and say "I'm the best player in the country".

This is a game after all, and the more events there are the more people are having fun and unfortunately a lot of people are not able to attend one set date per year, which may be over a thousand miles a way.

You do know that FFG already has an event where there are several smaller tournaments within a country, right? It's called regionals.

With that said, I am not sure you understand the concept of reading a post and having fun while playing a game.

I read your post, it was a stupid idea. The fact that I disagree with it doesn't mean that I somehow failed to understand it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, i can agree that there are some people, perhaps a handful that want to be called "national champions" so they can be in the same league as the other national champions. However, the title is meaningless because of a few points:

 

1) There were national championships that had an attendance of 24 or 27 (Malaysia and Italy), while the US one had 250+ and to put this into perspective for you, those two nationals cited above were smaller than most of the regionals within the USA.

 

2) Not every country has a national championship, and that includes ones with extremely large populations.

 

3) There are no qualifiers, no living rankings, no invitationals, nothing. It is just a title for a die based game.

 

You seem to forget this is a game, not a hyper competitive sport that brings in millions of dollars for the participants/athletes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made no demands, I run 2 tournaments a year that draw around 30 people each and a league that is year around that has approximately 30 unique participants. I contribute as much as I can to the x-wing scene in my area, but I would also like to participate in officially run events as a player.

 

I don't understand your hostility and rudeness.

Edited by alemondemon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

perhaps a handful that want to be called "national champions" so they can be in the same league as the other national champions.

 

Actually that is exactly why they have Nationals titles, to cater for that cohort.

 

If you want more tournaments, then you attend Store Tournaments (where the USA had the most), or Regionals (where the USA had the most)

 

Or even tournaments held on a weekly/bi-weekly or monthy basis by your FLGS. They also run tournaments on Vassel.

 

There are tournaments to cater for every type of player. You are proposing changing the tournaments that cater to the competitive elite, and taking some of that element away from it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My proposition was to try and even out that level of tournament play based on population and area so people are not at a significantly disadvantageous position depending on location, for example someone living in Vancouver has no national event within almost 2,000 miles while someone living in Germany has 8 national events within a day's drive.

Edited by alemondemon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can work out Nationals based on actual Nations, based on Population Density, based on Area or some combination of the 3 (which they've done).

 

Each one has benefits for some and disadvantages some others. Look at us in Australia. We had ours in Canberra this year. That means 2 connecting flights (to Sydney and then change to a domestic flight) when coming from NZ, and "2000 miles" when coming from Perth. Next year the Nationals may very well be somewhere else. They may be in Wellington, or Brisbane, or Perth. I just have to travel.[btw: I had a 6 hour drive and 3 nights accomodation in Canberra to attend this years]

 

If it was based on country, Australia and NZ would each get one (Parravon would be happy) but you could ask why a country of 4 million gets one and a country of 300 million only gets one

 

If it was based on land area, Australia would get one in Brisbane, 1 in Melbourne or Sydney and 1 in Perth. Again, why do we qualify for 3 with a population of only 23 mill?

 

If it was based on population, then China and India would each need to have atleast 40, just for Australia to qualify for 1. Even the UK would qualify for 3,despite being 1/7th the size, meaning 1/21th less travel for participants.

 

There is no perfect system, so they have limited it to 1 each country, and then tried to spread it around so as many people in the world as possible can access 1.

Edited by godofcheese

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, but I would not be opposed if there were two in Australia, one on each side of the population hubs, and two in the United States - East and West, etc. At the end of the day, it is just a game and the more people can play and have fun, the merrier we are all as a whole. I know a lot of excellent players that don't have the financial resources to be able to attend these events, and I hate seeing it happen - they just want to have fun like so many others, but can't afford it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe the South should secede again and get their own national championship. Texas should do so separately and claim another.

 

Here's an idea: if you think that there should be more regionals-style events then why don't YOU work on creating them instead of demanding that FFG give you some?

 

I made no demands, I run 2 tournaments a year that draw around 30 people each and a league that is year around that has approximately 30 unique participants. I contribute as much as I can to the x-wing scene in my area, but I would also like to participate in officially run events as a player.

 

I don't understand your hostility and rudeness.

 

I think he just needs to take a nap. He's been working hard at being belligerent to other people in other threads, and it just down right tuckers him out. Makes him cranky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Europe travelling far to events is not nearly as common as in the US. Most people I know will not travel more than 2h to an event.  

Additionally there are the language barriers. A German taking part in a national in France will have some trouble being understood, which does affect the fun.

It being called a national and not just another regional is a reason for a lot of players to make it to the event. It makes it special, I wouldn't like that to change.

If you'd like to split up the nationals in the US, that's a different story. I could guess a split in Western and Eastern, like in sports could be favourable. But don't bash the European events. We are happy with them...   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My proposition was to try and even out that level of tournament play based on population and area so people are not at a significantly disadvantageous position depending on location, for example someone living in Vancouver has no national event within almost 2,000 miles while someone living in Germany has 8 national events within a day's drive.

And the point you keep missing is that your "evening out" destroys the entire concept of having a national championship. Even if you change the name you just took that tournament away from the people who valued it. And what's the reason? Because you calculated population density and ignored all the other "big non-nationals tournament" events that are more frequent and require less travel?

I don't understand your hostility and rudeness.

You're getting hostility and rudeness because you keep defending a stupid idea. You started with an argument that is essentially "I can't afford to travel to nationals, so destroy it and take it away from everyone who can" and it only got worse from there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't understand your hostility and rudeness.

You're getting hostility and rudeness because you keep defending a stupid idea. You started with an argument that is essentially "I can't afford to travel to nationals, so destroy it and take it away from everyone who can" and it only got worse from there.

 

That is incorrect. You are giving him rudeness because you are rude, just as you've been rude to other people.

 

Also, you've clearly misunderstood his argument and intentions, so if there's a failure of the brain (aka stupidity) it is not on his side of the aisle here.

 

How would a national championship in Mexico violate anyone's understanding of what a national championship is all about?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How would a national championship in Mexico violate anyone's understanding of what a national championship is all about?

It wouldn't, but giving more countries their own championships is not what he's asking for. He's proposing that FFG split up larger countries and have multiple regional tournaments instead of a single national championship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Since it is extremely impractical for someone in Mexico to travel to Indianapolis for a National tournament while in Europe most regions can be reached within a few hours by car for a majority of the population (with the exception of some of the very eastern countries and Greece). 

 

Request: Have more national level tournaments in North America and rename them if necessary.

 

Mexico is in North America.

 

If you want to interpret him more broadly, I think there's room for both state and regional levels that would satisfy what he is looking for, which is what I gather what he means by 'renaming them if necessary'.

 

I agree with you that in the US, nationals should be one tournament. His point is that our states are of about the same population scale as European countries are. It would be equivalent if there was a Union-level tournament to which everyone in the European Union could attend (sorry Switzerland and Norway, you need not apply).

 

Even if he was inarticulate about it, there's no reason for you to be a jerk about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Europe travelling far to events is not nearly as common as in the US. Most people I know will not travel more than 2h to an event.  

Additionally there are the language barriers. A German taking part in a national in France will have some trouble being understood, which does affect the fun.

It being called a national and not just another regional is a reason for a lot of players to make it to the event. It makes it special, I wouldn't like that to change.

If you'd like to split up the nationals in the US, that's a different story. I could guess a split in Western and Eastern, like in sports could be favourable. But don't bash the European events. We are happy with them...   

 

I did not mean to bash any events, sorry. I just wanted more for people here! That is all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

My proposition was to try and even out that level of tournament play based on population and area so people are not at a significantly disadvantageous position depending on location, for example someone living in Vancouver has no national event within almost 2,000 miles while someone living in Germany has 8 national events within a day's drive.

And the point you keep missing is that your "evening out" destroys the entire concept of having a national championship. Even if you change the name you just took that tournament away from the people who valued it. And what's the reason? Because you calculated population density and ignored all the other "big non-nationals tournament" events that are more frequent and require less travel?

I don't understand your hostility and rudeness.

You're getting hostility and rudeness because you keep defending a stupid idea. You started with an argument that is essentially "I can't afford to travel to nationals, so destroy it and take it away from everyone who can" and it only got worse from there.

 

 

iPeregrine ...

 

I do not believe I have ever read a single one of your response posts where you have not been rude and hostile.  Why is it so difficult for you to express your ideas/thoughts in a constructive manner?  I have no problem that you feel the OP's post and ideas lack merit; but please try to express that idea without being so aggressive, demeaning, and hostile.

 

Doing so would accomplish several things ... 1) the OP would be far more likely to consider your position and thoughts - i.e. you would actually be "heard", 2) others, such as myself, would be far more likely to consider it as well, and 3) it would lead to a better discussion/debate of the merits of this thread, rather than just generate a flame war.

 

I know this has been pointed out to you numerous times, as I am not the only one that has taken offense to your approach and attitude.  Just because you disagree with just about everything ever posted on this site doesn't mean that you can't express yourself in a more effective manner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

How would a national championship in Mexico violate anyone's understanding of what a national championship is all about?

It wouldn't, but giving more countries their own championships is not what he's asking for. He's proposing that FFG split up larger countries and have multiple regional tournaments instead of a single national championship.

 

 

IIRC, the US had 16 REGIONAL championships (and Canada and Mexico both had several as well). I would not object to them having more, but this should be the level tournament you should be targetting if you wish to have lots of top tier tournaments. It ruins the whole spirit of NATIONAL, if it is not the nation. Perhaps the compromise could be a split of the way the tourney is run.

 

This year US Nationals was 3 days. with 128 players each day and the top 32 from each day going into a top 64 bracket on day 3.

 

Perhaps the first qualifier could be held in CA, and the second qualifier in NY (using those states as eg, based on their populations and reputations as major centres) with the top X from each of those joining others (the regional champions?) at FFGHQ for the elimination day.

 

That is a suggestion to 'spread it out', it may not work, it would need a lot of tweaking and planning, but is a possibility?

 

The other option is to spread the location of Nationals, and not always hold it at FFG,so next year it could be in LA, then in NYC, then in Miami, then in San Antonio, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any2cards

How dare you speak of the Chosen one with such a rude tounge. Dont you know his is the word of our saviour, the ultimate judge of all things tactical, the greatest mastermind this generation has had. Repent or suffer the ulitmate punishement for even implying that IPeregrine isnt humanitys ultimate gift

Edited by Alpha Kenny Buddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least it isn't complaining about the Worlds title being out of reach of most of the world.

 

Now, there is not going to be more than one National tournament. That's the point of calling it a National. Now, I am for adding another layer for US tournaments, States, which would be between Store Championships and Regionals. Or just adding more Reigonals. But Nationals and Worlds are tournament levels you really can't add more off without hurting the name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...