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Asymptomatic

Excel Dark Heresy Second Edition Character Sheet

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If there are specific functions you would like added to the spreadsheet, I can at least provide some pointers even if I am not able to work on the sheet myself.

 

I must say... While Excel doesn't look the best, do we really need a high in graphical fidelity alternative?

 

They're a tried and true format. People know what they're getting into, and as displayed by some of the 1st edition books, graphics can get in the way of reading and make things look messy.

 

What's the reasoning behind the desire for more graphical fidelity? Is it your own concern? Is motivation lacking if you're looking at excel for long periods? Did you get complaints from other community members?

 

Personally, unless it's an entirely-personal decision, I reckon you should do a poll? See if people really dislike the Excel aesthetic or not - As I certainly don't, and I don't feel like many of my fellow players would mind either.

Regarding the efficacy of Excel, I will provide an analogy. Imagine Excel is like a neighborhood, with an infinite amount of houses (cells) that have specific addresses (rows and columns). For any house to talk to another, a house would need the exact address of the house it wants to talk to. Normally this would not be a problem, since houses generally stay put, but I would frequently rip houses out of their foundations and put them elsewhere. While working in one part of the sheet, I would have to make sure that the all the other sheets did not break as a result.

 

Compared to houses, using a combination of JavaScript and HTML would be like having an inveritable fleet of cargo ships on the ocean. Ships are not anchored to a physical address and can simply be moved around if need be. Looking more aesthetically pleasing would be a side effect rather than the goal of making the entire sheet more streamlined and intuitive.

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Added all the expansion worlds and gave the option to select specific home world planets, I'll do backgrounds next.

 

Also note that I only plan to bring everything up to date with the new expansions, the rest is still upto the original author, unless noted otherwise.

 

What I plan to do:

- Bring Homeworlds up to date (CHECK)

- Give the option to select specific planets (CHECK)

- Add expansion Backgrounds

- Add expansion Roles

- Add expansion Elite Advances

- Making sure everything is displayed nicely on the character sheet.

 

And if it's worth the effort:

- Update weapon list

- Add Armor list

- Add Equipment list

- Add Psychic Powers list

Did you make a finished version of your updated version of the sheet?

The app isn't something I'm interested in, and I know a lot of people who prefer excel to phone based stuff.

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A partial upload would be good too.

 

Well I know that there are Rogue Trader excel character sheets on the same level of complexity and I'd be happy to lend my assistance for the mundane stuff. I don't know the first thing about macros but I can do vlookup and if and the such easily enough. 

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I answered it but in the review of the data it put my preferences in reverse order for some reason.

It does seem backwards, but the data helps me all the same. If a ranking of 1 is counted as a 7 in the review, then I can look for answers with the highest combined scores rather than the lowest.

 

Currently working on an "offline" desktop prototype during pockets of my spare time. It is powered by HTML and JavaScript, so users only need a web browser to use it. Since the cells are fluid instead of static, I have made a healthy amount of progress after only two lunch breaks.

 

EDIT: Added definitions for the seven voting options. As a reminder, voters are able to go back to the poll and change their responses at any time.

Edited by Asymptomatic

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I answered it but in the review of the data it put my preferences in reverse order for some reason.

It does seem backwards, but the data helps me all the same. If a ranking of 1 is counted as a 7 in the review, then I can look for answers with the highest combined scores rather than the lowest.

 

Currently working on an "offline" desktop prototype during pockets of my spare time. It is powered by HTML and JavaScript, so users only need a web browser to use it. Since the cells are fluid instead of static, I have made a healthy amount of progress after only two lunch breaks.

 

EDIT: Added definitions for the seven voting options. As a reminder, voters are able to go back to the poll and change their responses at any time.

 

As long as the end result is consistent then I guess it doesn't matter, bit odd though.

 

If you need any non-coding based help (like typing up talents/skills or sourcing stuff) let me know. Happy to lend a hand.

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HTML/JavaScript Character Sheet Prototype:

  • Create Home Worlds Done
  • Delete Home Worlds Done
  • Edit Home Worlds
  • "Apply" Home World

Ironing out a skeleton to see if you, the community, like the direction I am taking. Home Worlds are the most straightforward since there are no choices to be made (excluding the Forge World option).

 

Mind, I am on the fence about listing character options directly from the book. One of my main priorities is supporting community-made content to specifically avoid ripping straight from the source. While this means that I may or may not be pre-filling the app with "official" content, users will always be free to put in any values they choose.

Edited by Asymptomatic

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I think that what most people seek from character creators is not first homebrew (though that is important to people) but a simplified and consolidated version of the base game, in that case not ripping directly from the books is the antithesis of what people want. Hence why many of the people here who play this game the first thing they do is copy the entire book laboriously into excel so that they can actually read it easier and not have to flip through 100 pages or five different PDFs. 

Also there is the home world choice of a specific home world, changing the talent, or are you not making it so that you choose Forge World -> Pellenne/Generic/etc but instead you choose Pellenne or Forge World from the first option? You get a choice in Pellenne in any case. 

Edited by RMcD

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I think that what most people seek from character creators is not first homebrew (though that is important to people) but a simplified and consolidated version of the base game, in that case not ripping directly from the books is the antithesis of what people want. Hence why many of the people here who play this game the first thing they do is copy the entire book laboriously into excel so that they can actually read it easier and not have to flip through 100 pages or five different PDFs. 

Yes, this is the counter-argument that I would give if I was a user. I am not as well-versed as I used to be in the material, but I still have the .PDF's up to... Enemies Without? lying around.

 

 

 

I Also there is the home world choice of a specific home world, changing the talent, or are you not making it so that you choose Forge World -> Pellenne/Generic/etc but instead you choose Pellenne or Forge World from the first option? You get a choice in Pellenne in any case. 

Current thinking is that the vanilla and alternate Home Worlds will have separate but grouped listings. In effect:

  • Feral World
  • Forge World
  • Forge World: Pellenne
  • etc.

I feel it is more clear to list alternate Home Worlds by their base model rather than their name for clarity's sake. However, if looking for "Pellene" rather than "Forge World: Pellene" is more intuitive, I can have a toggle or something.

Edited by Asymptomatic

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Since the game is being no longer supported I don't see much reason not to include the book source either. It's not like they're going to release their own HTML based consolidated DH app. 

 

Your Home World solution makes sense too, I was just thinking that there may be an overabundance of choice, 35 worlds (of which generic there are 15). If the dropdown menu or whatever solution you have is able to present it all easily ala:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-SeiatwZl05792p4re7ofNUQH9u9Bnh3t5Xa27xtQ_4/edit#gid=0

 

Then it isn't an issue. 

Are you intending to a host a most recent version available to test anywhere? Obviously you've just started but prior to completion? 

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Since the game is being no longer supported I don't see much reason not to include the book source either. It's not like they're going to release their own HTML based consolidated DH app. 

 

Your Home World solution makes sense too, I was just thinking that there may be an overabundance of choice, 35 worlds (of which generic there are 15). If the dropdown menu or whatever solution you have is able to present it all easily ala:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-SeiatwZl05792p4re7ofNUQH9u9Bnh3t5Xa27xtQ_4/edit#gid=0

 

Then it isn't an issue. 

Are you intending to a host a most recent version available to test anywhere? Obviously you've just started but prior to completion? 

Oh, that spreadsheet certainly makes my job easier. I plan to host the new app through OrangeDox again to track downloading trends, but I will share the link here and perhaps the outlets listed in the Keeping the Community Together post.

 

I would like to have the prototype available within the next few days for initial feedback which, based on my current progress, looks to be attainable.

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HTML/JavaScript Character Sheet Prototype via Dropbox/Orangedox: DH2CG.html

  • Create Home Worlds
  • Delete Home Worlds
  • Edit Home Worlds

Prototype now available for initial feedback. One needs only open the file in a web browser to test it. It is powered by the web browser's local storage.

 

This prototype is just an exercise in saving and loading user data; the next iteration may or may not require a complete overhaul. All character options and items, from Home Worlds to Talents, will based on this framework. If you, the community, have any questions or concerns, I urge you to let me know sooner rather than later.

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Seems good, but shouldn't wounds have a roll in them? I couldn't add a roll.

 

Also there seems to be no validation for the data entry which is an issue if you want it to work with other aspects of the sheet (ie to calculate talent/skill costs)

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Seems good, but shouldn't wounds have a roll in them? I couldn't add a roll.

 

Also there seems to be no validation for the data entry which is an issue if you want it to work with other aspects of the sheet (ie to calculate talent/skill costs)

The prototype is mainly for proof-of-concept; data goes in, data comes out. As currently planned, all further character options will be based on this prototype. Validation and player rolls are priorities further down the pipeline.

 

For now, I am still collecting feedback and survey responses before I commit to a particular direction.

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Currently polishing the prototype to better duplicate it across the various character options. Ideally, users will be able to define new character options and even new rules and actions from within the app itself.

 

In line with survey responses, I will be pre-filling the app with existing content, though I may ask for some volunteer assistance. More information on that when that time comes.

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As a brief update, I am ironing out the simulated rolls for Fate Thresholds and Wounds. I expect I should be able to put out a slightly more functional prototype within the next few days.

 

The next goal would have the Bonus field compare user-input to what the app has currently stored. For example, if a user put in "The Old Ways", the app would assume that the user meant the Feral World's Bonus from the core rulebook. If the input does not match anything in the app, a new field would appear to define a new Bonus on the spot.

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HTML/JavaScript Character Sheet Prototype via Dropbox/Orangedox: DH2CG.October11

 

Rolling for Fate Threshold and Wounds is available. There is a small check when creating new Home Worlds, such that the app will guess what the intent was based on the presence of a plus sign (+):

  • 2 (Emperor's Blessing 3+) => 2 (Emperor's Blessing 3+)
  • 2 (blessing 3+) => 2 (Emperor's Blessing 3+)
  • 2 (3+) => 2 (Emperor's Blessing 3+)
  • 2 (3) => 2 (Emperor's Blessing 2+)

There is a similar check for adding " + 1d5" to Wound entries that lack it.

 

I included a reset button near the top, as this update is incompatible with the previous data structure.

Edited by Asymptomatic

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Nice update, regarding the fate situation perhaps it would be better to have two separate boxes, that way you don't have to worry so much about sanitising and validating user input. One box for a number for the starting fate, and another for the number they need for Emperor's blessing. You could do the same with wounds if you support different dice size, one box for base wounds and another for d5 or d10 or d20 or whatever it might be with d5 automatically filled in as default. 

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Nice update, regarding the fate situation perhaps it would be better to have two separate boxes, that way you don't have to worry so much about sanitising and validating user input. One box for a number for the starting fate, and another for the number they need for Emperor's blessing. You could do the same with wounds if you support different dice size, one box for base wounds and another for d5 or d10 or d20 or whatever it might be with d5 automatically filled in as default. 

Yes, this is the conclusion I came to as well. In the interest of supporting user-defined Wound amounts, it would be much clearer to have dice types as a drop-down menu or something. After I experiment with adding new Bonuses on the fly, I may reformat the entry boxes to better fit my long-term vision.

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