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T3CHN0Shaman

Debate: Flying with Force Move

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I know that the Star Wars physics are pretty dodgy, but in real life it's pretty true that "weight matters not" - in space. Local Dagobah gravity factors in when lifting an X-Wing on the surface, but correcting its course in Dagobah's orbit would probably be a lot easier if you can apply the same Newtons...

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Well Force Unleashed 1 and 2 both had examples of interesting force power use in my opinion.  Like when Galen basically rides a Nebulon B Frigate into atmosphere then force pushes himself at the city away from the exploding ship.  I mean he is free falling but he uses the force to move objects out of his way (eliminating the grounded theory) and even to accelerate himself at times.  Though admittedly FU is basically Force on PCP but I still like the idea.  As for using move to fly what about a super dosed version of Enhance to Hulk Jump?  See that is Falling with Style in my opinion.

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Well Force Unleashed 1 and 2 both had examples of interesting force power use in my opinion.  Like when Galen basically rides a Nebulon B Frigate into atmosphere then force pushes himself at the city away from the exploding ship.  I mean he is free falling but he uses the force to move objects out of his way (eliminating the grounded theory) and even to accelerate himself at times.  Though admittedly FU is basically Force on PCP but I still like the idea.  As for using move to fly what about a super dosed version of Enhance to Hulk Jump?  See that is Falling with Style in my opinion.

 

The Force Unleashed games were great fun, but not TCW or the films ;)

 

But it is a good point, nonetheless. I would allow telekinesis to be used while in freefall. No problem there. I think the issue, though, is that you're still moving things relative to your own position. We never see a falling Jedi use the Force to "float" a tree branch in midair and then grab onto it. Gravity still has an affect on the Jedi himself, and there are only a few examples of Force users actually flying through means of telekinesis. I don't think Move is the way to do it. Or, at the very least, you'd need some crazy expensive talent or Signature Ability that would allow you to use Move to move yourself.

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Eh. When it comes to force use we can't rely on the movies and especially not on TCW. There's really almost no information about how the force works in the movies (we just see it used a few different ways, but its never indicated that those are the limits) and TCW is actually worse than most of the EU ever was in terms of unique instances of force abilities.

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Eh. When it comes to force use we can't rely on the movies and especially not on TCW. There's really almost no information about how the force works in the movies (we just see it used a few different ways, but its never indicated that those are the limits) and TCW is actually worse than most of the EU ever was in terms of unique instances of force abilities.

 

By way of explanation...the poster had referenced my statement about people in TCW and the films that use telekinesis always seem to have their feet on the ground (or frozen ceiling in Luke's case). The poster went on to say that TFU "eliminates the grounded theory," but 1) it wasn't a theory so much as an observation and 2) TFU wasn't within the parameters of said observation.

 

And to answer the above quoted comments regarding TCW: Where are these unique instances of Force abilities? And how are they worse? Just curious.

Edited by awayputurwpn

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Ah. Sorry, my brain is angry with me today. As far as unique instances go, pretty much anything to do with the Night Sisters is a pretty good place to start. Things like turning into mist, creating items from nowhere, spontaneous flame, and resurrecting the dead. While Palpatine suggests that he knows how to do the last one, there's no evidence anywhere in the films that this is more than tactic on his part. The show is rife with other examples and itself pulls heavily from the EU. This is one of the major reasons I don't understand why people feel this need to distinguish canon from legends. Comic book fans have been dealing with retcon's for ages but they generally don't do it by ignoring what came before.

 

EDIT: I mean in terms of cosmic laws. Obviously they make a point to distinguish between narrative elements.

Edited by T3CHN0Shaman

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Ah. Sorry, my brain is angry with me today. As far as unique instances go, pretty much anything to do with the Night Sisters is a pretty good place to start. Things like turning into mist, creating items from nowhere, spontaneous flame, and resurrecting the dead. While Palpatine suggests that he knows how to do the last one, there's no evidence anywhere in the films that this is more than tactic on his part. The show is rife with other examples and itself pulls heavily from the EU.

 

Yeah well, Filoni and Lucas have already said that the Night Sisters' "Magick" is separate from the Force. And those reasons above are why I am absolutely in favor of their revelation :)

The show does indeed pull some from the EU (like all the films did), but also overrides it when it suits the purposes of the story.

Edited by awayputurwpn

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There is a very good reason why Move shouldn't allow you to levitate yourself while you're in free fall.

 

And that reason is the death of the Emperor. He clearly knew how to move things with his mind. He could not stop himself from falling to his doom. Since this is Star Wars, I'll happily sacrifice FU or TCW or even what Obi-Wan does in the prequels on the altar of continuity. There is one way to mitigate fall damage, and that is an Athletics or Coordination check (assisted by Enhance.)

 

To those of you playing Kerbal Space Program: My idea is that the Force has the thrust of the Ion Propulsion drive when you're trying to use it on yourself. You can try, but it won't be enough to lift yourself in Kerbin gravity...

 

Maybe there's a force acting on your body while you apply a Force on other bodies so that it cancels each other out.

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Yeah well, Filoni and Lucas have already said that the Night Sisters' "Magick" is separate from the Force. And those reasons above are why I am absolutely in favor of their revelation :)

The show does indeed pull some from the EU (like all the films did), but also overrides it when it suits the purposes of the story.

Comic book fans have a way of dealing with that kind of insane retcon too. It's call "nerd rage". The Night Sisters only EXIST because of EU and there's never been anything unreasonable about them (especially where Force use was involved) until TCW came along. Also, they were far more interesting.

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From what I've seen in TCW Jedi use the force to help with longer and higher Jumps. But that Link to Wiki said some actually used it for flying. guess it's really up to the GM on this one.

Using the Enhance power and the full line of "Force Leap" Control Upgrades and Range Upgrade, being able to move to any location within Medium Range as a maneuver could pretty much be seen as "short term flight" depending on how the PC opts to narrate it.  Said ability could be Yoda's bouncing around like a pinball, or Dooku's composed levitation and slow descent from the first part of the 2D Clone Wars animated series (in the arena where Ventress introduced herself).

 

Mechanically, the end result is the same: The PC used Enhance to make a "Force leap" to move to a point within Medium Range, which per the rulebooks is anywhere out to several dozen meters away from the starting point.  Be willing to either convert your action into a maneuver or take the strain for a second maneuver, and you could do that twice per turn.

 

I'd call that pretty close to "controlled flight via the Force."  Particularly if you've got a Force Rating of 3 or better, enough so that generating the necessary 2 light side pips (presuming the PC isn't a dark sider) is more of a sure thing and won't require converting dark side pips into usable Force points.

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From what I've seen in TCW Jedi use the force to help with longer and higher Jumps. But that Link to Wiki said some actually used it for flying. guess it's really up to the GM on this one.

Using the Enhance power and the full line of "Force Leap" Control Upgrades and Range Upgrade, being able to move to any location within Medium Range as a maneuver could pretty much be seen as "short term flight" depending on how the PC opts to narrate it. Said ability could be Yoda's bouncing around like a pinball, or Dooku's composed levitation and slow descent from the first part of the 2D Clone Wars animated series (in the arena where Ventress introduced herself).

Mechanically, the end result is the same: The PC used Enhance to make a "Force leap" to move to a point within Medium Range, which per the rulebooks is anywhere out to several dozen meters away from the starting point. Be willing to either convert your action into a maneuver or take the strain for a second maneuver, and you could do that twice per turn.

I'd call that pretty close to "controlled flight via the Force." Particularly if you've got a Force Rating of 3 or better, enough so that generating the necessary 2 light side pips (presuming the PC isn't a dark sider) is more of a sure thing and won't require converting dark side pips into usable Force points.

WHOA, hold on there, mister "let's-just-combine-control-and-alter-all-willy-nilly."

;)

Edited by awayputurwpn

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From what I've seen in TCW Jedi use the force to help with longer and higher Jumps. But that Link to Wiki said some actually used it for flying. guess it's really up to the GM on this one.

Using the Enhance power and the full line of "Force Leap" Control Upgrades and Range Upgrade, being able to move to any location within Medium Range as a maneuver could pretty much be seen as "short term flight" depending on how the PC opts to narrate it. Said ability could be Yoda's bouncing around like a pinball, or Dooku's composed levitation and slow descent from the first part of the 2D Clone Wars animated series (in the arena where Ventress introduced herself).

Mechanically, the end result is the same: The PC used Enhance to make a "Force leap" to move to a point within Medium Range, which per the rulebooks is anywhere out to several dozen meters away from the starting point. Be willing to either convert your action into a maneuver or take the strain for a second maneuver, and you could do that twice per turn.

I'd call that pretty close to "controlled flight via the Force." Particularly if you've got a Force Rating of 3 or better, enough so that generating the necessary 2 light side pips (presuming the PC isn't a dark sider) is more of a sure thing and won't require converting dark side pips into usable Force points.

WHOA, hold on there, mister "let's-just-combine-control-and-alter-all-willy-nilly."

;)

 

What?  Mechanically it's using the Force for what is narratively described as "flight" on the part of the Force user, using the power that's specifically designed to allow PCs to do stuff like that.

 

Move's got nothing to do with it, and with the Enhance working as I described once all the upgrades from the right hand side of the power tree are purchased, the desired end result (moving about the battle field in a hurry) is achieved.

 

Saga Edition has the surge power to achieve the same result, which itself wasn't linked to telekinesis.  If anything, TK is simply a handy descriptor for the mechanical effect of the power, much like in a superhero RPG where Superman's heat vision, Green Lantern's direct energy blasts, and Iron Man's repulsor rays are all Ranged Energy Attacks in terms of mechanics, but just have different source descriptors (heat, cosmic, and technology respectively).

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From what I've seen in TCW Jedi use the force to help with longer and higher Jumps. But that Link to Wiki said some actually used it for flying. guess it's really up to the GM on this one.

Using the Enhance power and the full line of "Force Leap" Control Upgrades and Range Upgrade, being able to move to any location within Medium Range as a maneuver could pretty much be seen as "short term flight" depending on how the PC opts to narrate it. Said ability could be Yoda's bouncing around like a pinball, or Dooku's composed levitation and slow descent from the first part of the 2D Clone Wars animated series (in the arena where Ventress introduced herself).

Mechanically, the end result is the same: The PC used Enhance to make a "Force leap" to move to a point within Medium Range, which per the rulebooks is anywhere out to several dozen meters away from the starting point. Be willing to either convert your action into a maneuver or take the strain for a second maneuver, and you could do that twice per turn.

I'd call that pretty close to "controlled flight via the Force." Particularly if you've got a Force Rating of 3 or better, enough so that generating the necessary 2 light side pips (presuming the PC isn't a dark sider) is more of a sure thing and won't require converting dark side pips into usable Force points.

WHOA, hold on there, mister "let's-just-combine-control-and-alter-all-willy-nilly." ;)

What?  Mechanically it's using the Force for what is narratively described as "flight" on the part of the Force user, using the power that's specifically designed to allow PCs to do stuff like that.

 

Move's got nothing to do with it, and with the Enhance working as I described once all the upgrades from the right hand side of the power tree are purchased, the desired end result (moving about the battle field in a hurry) is achieved.

 

Saga Edition has the surge power to achieve the same result, which itself wasn't linked to telekinesis.  If anything, TK is simply a handy descriptor for the mechanical effect of the power, much like in a superhero RPG where Superman's heat vision, Green Lantern's direct energy blasts, and Iron Man's repulsor rays are all Ranged Energy Attacks in terms of mechanics, but just have different source descriptors (heat, cosmic, and technology respectively).

I know, I kid, I kid.

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Actually, the old WEG Star Wars RPG says that some Jedi use the Move power to fly slowly or even push their starship when the engines have failed/were destroyed. So yeah, it's been part of SWRPG for a while :P

 

-EF

Yeah, the WEG Telekenisis power was the one which they used to move themselves (makes logical sense. If you can move a space ship why can't you move yourself?). However, as I don't like the image of floating Jedi I banned it's use for flight or holding steady in one place. You could hurl yourself though (force jump).

Edited by borithan

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