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Hugo Y

SW Rebels - Off topic but not so much

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I took a shot and watched SW Rebels. One of the first scenes portraits a Star Destroyer flying above a tower. Are all capital ships capable of flying in a planet's atmosphere? If so, would it be too "blasphemous" to run a scenario with some friends where the battle takes place over a city or over the sea like in the Mon Calamari invasion?

 

I can't imagine a Nebulon-B in a planet's atmosphere... lol... or even a Super Star Destroyer... but now I'm curious to see that...

 

Thanks a lot for your enlightment, guys.

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There is an extensive thread about this issue which I started in X-Wing.  I also have a problem with some of the ships shown flying 500-1000 feet off of the ground in atmosphere.  Others didn't.

 

Here is the link: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/124080-ot-did-you-enjoy-star-wars-rebels-episode-1/?hl=%2Bstar+%2Bwars+%2Brebels

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Repulsorlifts? Really... large... repulsorlifts.

 

Though it does seem like if an ISD could fly into an atmosphere, we would have seen one on Hoth or Endor. Endor especially, with most of the fleet doing nothing, a few ISDs could have dropped down for some close air support.

I also think it kind of takes away from the "WWII in space" feeling. When the Star Destroyer has to launch landing craft and shuttles, it's like a beach invasion.

 

I think the real explanation is that someone at Disney really, really, liked that "Star Destroyer over San Francisco" picture and decided to put it in the new show.

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Anti-Gravity, Repulsor lifts, etc.  Whatever.

 

I am more concerned about:

  1. The friction generated by a ship that large moving through atmosphere, especially at some of the speeds shown.  Even if you argue that it won't impact the ship due to shields or other technology, it **** well will have an impact on the atmosphere, on the ground, on other objects around them, etc.  Imagine the sheer wave generated by its passage.
  2. Ships of this size also have their own inherent impact when it comes to the gravity well they themselves generate.

I get the fact that it looks cool, etc. (i.e. Star Destroyer over San Francisco).  It just pisses me off and reminds me of those scenes in some of the original SW movies (especially in battles around the 2 Death Stars) which has many ships flying right through each other, interpolating, etc.

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I think the real explanation is that someone at Disney really, really, liked that "Star Destroyer over San Francisco" picture and decided to put it in the new show.

We've seen plenty of Venator class Destroyers in the Clone Wars landing or in atmosphere, so it's not like Disney came up with the idea.

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Repulsorlifts? Really... large... repulsorlifts.

 

Though it does seem like if an ISD could fly into an atmosphere, we would have seen one on Hoth or Endor. Endor especially, with most of the fleet doing nothing, a few ISDs could have dropped down for some close air support.

I also think it kind of takes away from the "WWII in space" feeling. When the Star Destroyer has to launch landing craft and shuttles, it's like a beach invasion.

 

I think the real explanation is that someone at Disney really, really, liked that "Star Destroyer over San Francisco" picture and decided to put it in the new show.

 

 

Having an ISD enter Atmosphere at Hoth would have achieved what exactly? Besides having it either crash into the shield or be able to do nothing until the shield dropped that is.

 

And at Endor the shield would have had to be lowered to let the Star Destroyers through. Given that the Rebel fleet was between the Imperial fleet and the Death Star II their fighters would have been able to slip under the shield if they lowered it to allow a Star Destroyer through.

 

And given that the main mission of the Imperial fleet at Endor was preventing the escape of the rebel fleet so any ships under the shield when the rebel fleet arrived would be useless for the fleet's primary objective

 

Also given where the ground battle took place any air support from a Star Destroyer's weapons or even fighters would run a high risk of hitting the shield generator which the Imperials wanted to keep operational.

Edited by RogueCorona

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Actually, Victory class Destroyers are supposed to be the largest ships capable of entering atmosphere at the time of the OT.  Imperial SDs and Mon Cal Cruisers, etc. are built in orbital shipyards and never enter planetary atmosphere. 

 

Courtesy of wookieepedia:

 

"Unlike later Star Destroyer designs, the Victory possessed the ability to enter the upper levels of a planetary atmosphere. This gave the ship a decided advantage of added precision when engaging in the ground attack operations the class was designed to carry out. In addition, the Victory could also pursue other vessels hoping to escape by diving towards a planet.[8] A set of atmospheric maneuvering surfaces were located along the ship's flanks as well.[10] Some Victory variants dispensed with the atmospheric maneuvering surfaces altogether. Star Destroyers of this kind fought in the Operation Shadow Hand, notably in the Battle of Balmorra.[11]"

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Yeah but they retroconned that with The Cone Wars. The Venator class is shown operating in atmosphere and its larger then a Victory and now Rebels has shown an Imperial operating in atmosphere.

Technically the Venator is the predecessor to the Victory class, (if my timelines are right) it may be the largest, (but remember length does not always = larger) but the wookiepedia statement may still be accurate about later SDs not being able to enter

 

As for the Rebels clip while it is assumed that it is an Imperial Class I don't recall it being mentioned anywhere, so it could have been a different variant.

 

Bonus trivia There was actually an SSD that fought in atmosphere (the Lusankya at Coruscant as it fled to Thyferra) granted it wasn't designed to fight in atmosphere as much as just have an escape option if the ship was discovered.

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Just more of Star Wars canon being simplified for the cool/we don't care factor. 

you make it sound like a bad thing.

Rebels makes my inner 7 year old from 1977 go "OHMYGOSHOHMYGOSHOHMYGOSH" and that is something Star wars hasn't done in a LONG TIME.

...I mean "imperial transport"...coolest.toy.ever.

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Just more of Star Wars canon being simplified for the cool/we don't care factor. 

you make it sound like a bad thing.

Rebels makes my inner 7 year old from 1977 go "OHMYGOSHOHMYGOSHOHMYGOSH" and that is something Star wars hasn't done in a LONG TIME.

...I mean "imperial transport"...coolest.toy.ever.

 

I agree.  My kids like the show, but I'm the one who can't wait to watch it with them every week.  I like the prequel trilogy, and Clone Wars, but they've been done for a while and watched many times.  Rebels is new and exciting.

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We should all try to keep in mind that the new SW writing team is operating with new rules... well sort of new... Lucas and his people never looked to the EU for approval for what his ships were capable of.

 

However, with the new ruling that the EU and other source material being officially reduced to non-canon, the writers of the new shows and movies can ignore the EU material in favor of what they believe are better ideas for story and visuals. (which they have always done really) In other words if they want a Star Destroyer in atmosphere they can make it so. As stated earlier in this thread that is nothing new. In the Prequels and Clone Wars movies and shows we have seen many a huge ship in atmosphere. Apparently someone thought it would be impressive/cool to show a newer Star Destroyer doing the same thing.

 

Like it or not a Star Destroyer being able to enter atmosphere is now canon. (assuming that was an actual Star Destroyer and not a smaller subclass, which is another debate altogether) and looking to source material, much of which was established in the EU has been rendered pointless, what we see the ship do on screen is what the ship can do... that's pretty much it from now on.

 

On the plus side, with new shows and movies being made, we should be seeing much more of what this awesome ship is capable of.

 

That's my 2 cents...

 

Later

 

  

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If even the Lusankya can fly in a planetary atmosphere, albeit assisted, I don't see why an ISD can't. I seem to recall a cutscene from The Force Unleashed where an ISD was flying inside a planet's atmosphere, as well.

 

The Star Wars canon isn't being "simplified"; they're just drawing on one part of the convoluted mess that was the old canon.

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The Star Wars canon isn't being "simplified", they're just drawing on one part of the convoluted mess that was the old canon

 

This is what Lucas has always done anyway, he has repeatedly said that the EU was never an influence on his work... he even stated once that he didn't even read the stuff. Lucas was happy that the EU was there for the fans but it was never "real" to him or his story.

 

The fact is that now we get to see what these ships can really do, not subject to some over zealot and ill conserved idea of what these ships might/should be able to do, based on some writer's imagination, and often times not consistent with what has been seen on screen.  

 

Later    

Edited by Cannis0013

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