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SableGryphon

Experimental Interface Explored

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So I'm gonna start referring to the Chiraneau build with Experimental Interface as:

 

"The Dreaded Rear Admiral"

 

Sounds like fun, my first problem is trying to figure out what to fly alongside him in the list. Howlrunner Mini-Swarm is the first thought, but it would only be Howlie+2 APs.

Edited by 5-Cents

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So I'm gonna start referring to the Chiraneau build with Experimental Interface as:

 

"The Dreaded Rear Admiral"

 

Sounds like fun, my first problem is trying to figure out what to fly alongside him in the list. Howlrunner Mini-Swarm is the first thought, but it would only be Howlie+2 APs.

I've been having good times with just 3 academies and the admiral. Or sometimes a 2-ship build, the admiral and echo.

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So I'm gonna start referring to the Chiraneau build with Experimental Interface as:

 

"The Dreaded Rear Admiral"

 

Sounds like fun, my first problem is trying to figure out what to fly alongside him in the list. Howlrunner Mini-Swarm is the first thought, but it would only be Howlie+2 APs.

I've been having good times with just 3 academies and the admiral. Or sometimes a 2-ship build, the admiral and echo.

 

Captain Kagi + FCS + Gunner + Tactician + Engine Upgrade clocks in at 40 points, will force your enemy to not Target Lock Chiraneau, and is the same reliable damage we know and love from the Lambda. :)

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Captain Kagi + FCS + Gunner + Tactician + Engine Upgrade clocks in at 40 points, will force your enemy to not Target Lock Chiraneau, and is the same reliable damage we know and love from the Lambda. :)

 

Hmmm, interesting. I may have to give that one a try. Will, I think, get shredded by my friend's Etahn list though.

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Captain Kagi + FCS + Gunner + Tactician + Engine Upgrade clocks in at 40 points, will force your enemy to not Target Lock Chiraneau, and is the same reliable damage we know and love from the Lambda. :)

 

Hmmm, interesting. I may have to give that one a try. Will, I think, get shredded by my friend's Etahn list though.

 

When have crits ever hindered a Decimator? ;)

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When have crits ever hindered a Decimator? ;)

 

Every game I have played the match up that Etahn hasn't been one shotted with a direct hit on the 2nd turn of combat. (and one game where he was because we realized just afterward that it was an illegal attack from a blinded pilot crit and had to put him back on the board.

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Then of course the one someone mentioned before:

Carnor Jax + Expert Handling + EI

Can't use Focus, Evade and can't TL me (beat that Dark Curse!).

What a waste of EI.
Why a waste??
Expert handling

Action: Perform a free barrel roll action...

Experimental Interface

Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action from an equipped Upgrade card with the "Action:" header. Then receive 1 stress token.

Using EI to trigger EH literally only gives you one additional stress at the cost of 3 more points.

As in, you're paying points for a disadvantage with no advantage whatsoever. It's a legal combo, but it's perhaps the worst combo in the game, unless you're trying to get the world record for number of stress tokens on Tychco. In that case, you can get 3 per turn.

Edited by Koshinn

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Then of course the one someone mentioned before:

Carnor Jax + Expert Handling + EI

Can't use Focus, Evade and can't TL me (beat that Dark Curse!).

What a waste of EI.
Why a waste??
Expert handling

Action: Perform a free barrel roll action...

Experimental Interface

Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action from an equipped Upgrade card with the "Action:" header. Then receive 1 stress token.

Using EI to trigger EH literally only gives you one additional stress at the cost of 3 more points.

As in, you're paying points for a disadvantage with no advantage whatsoever. It's a legal combo, but it's perhaps the worst combo in the game, unless you're trying to get the world record for number of stress tokens on Tychco. In that case, you can get 3 per turn.

Ok, I still don't understand. Expert Handling only gives a stress when you DON'T have BR in the action bar. It is essentially a TL shaking BR if you do have it already in the action bar. Thus you get the same amount of stress as if you'd have PtL equipped on your ship (i.e. One because of the second action) and you've just become a lot more slippery. Besides, 3/4 of the time I find myself using BR anyway, so its not like I'm losing out on another action I want to take.

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Then of course the one someone mentioned before:

Carnor Jax + Expert Handling + EI

Can't use Focus, Evade and can't TL me (beat that Dark Curse!).

What a waste of EI.
Why a waste??
Expert handling

Action: Perform a free barrel roll action...

Experimental Interface

Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action from an equipped Upgrade card with the "Action:" header. Then receive 1 stress token.

Using EI to trigger EH literally only gives you one additional stress at the cost of 3 more points.

As in, you're paying points for a disadvantage with no advantage whatsoever. It's a legal combo, but it's perhaps the worst combo in the game, unless you're trying to get the world record for number of stress tokens on Tychco. In that case, you can get 3 per turn.

Ok, I still don't understand. Expert Handling only gives a stress when you DON'T have BR in the action bar. It is essentially a TL shaking BR if you do have it already in the action bar. Thus you get the same amount of stress as if you'd have PtL equipped on your ship (i.e. One because of the second action) and you've just become a lot more slippery. Besides, 3/4 of the time I find myself using BR anyway, so its not like I'm losing out on another action I want to take.
How is it you understand what a "free action" is when it's on PtL and EI but not when it's on EH?

EH gives you a FREE barrel roll action. As in, if the absolute only upgrade on Carnor Jax is Expert Handling, he can use EH and still do a second action (that isn't another barrel roll) without any stress, because EH gives him a free action that has to be a barrel roll.

Put another way, EH's action is free. It says so on the card. PtL and EI also make it free, but with a stress token tax. Using PtL or EI on EH can't make it more free than free, so you're paying a stress tax for absolutely no reason whatsoever to those trying to win a game of X-Wing.

Edited by Koshinn

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@Koshinn

 

PTL gives stress

EI give stress

So in that sense, they are identical

 

PTL allows you to perform a second action that is on your action bar (at the cost of stress)

EI allows you perform a second action as long as it's an upgrade card with "Action:..." on it (at the cost of stress)

So in that sense, they mirror each other.

 

The build with Carnor is a defensive build. You're trying to get in range one to stop opponents from using focus tokens against you, but you are still vulnerable to opponents target locking you and getting the reroll. This is where EH comes in because Carnor can remove target locks from his ship, and at PS8 will be moving after most other pilots making him a bit like Dark Curse Tie Fighter. Unfortunately EH takes away the EPT slot, so you can't take PTL, which is kind of important for Squints. This is where EI comes in, acting as a pseudo PTL, so long as your second action is always going to be a Barrel Roll.

 

Just so we're clear, the point of EH here is not to give Carnor a Barrel Roll action, he already has that. It's to let him shed Target Lock tokens. Also note that squints don't take a second stress token for EH, so you're either using PTL for a total of 1 stress, or EI for a total of 1 stress.

 

I agree that it's probably not the best build for Carnor, as he needs to be in range 1 of the enemy and can only get rid of 1 TL token per turn, making him susceptible to TL overload. But it's far from  "a waste", and it's 2 only points more than just PTL.

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@Koshinn

 

PTL gives stress

EI give stress

So in that sense, they are identical

 

PTL allows you to perform a second action that is on your action bar (at the cost of stress)

EI allows you perform a second action as long as it's an upgrade card with "Action:..." on it (at the cost of stress)

So in that sense, they mirror each other.

 

The build with Carnor is a defensive build. You're trying to get in range one to stop opponents from using focus tokens against you, but you are still vulnerable to opponents target locking you and getting the reroll. This is where EH comes in because Carnor can remove target locks from his ship, and at PS8 will be moving after most other pilots making him a bit like Dark Curse Tie Fighter. Unfortunately EH takes away the EPT slot, so you can't take PTL, which is kind of important for Squints. This is where EI comes in, acting as a pseudo PTL, so long as your second action is always going to be a Barrel Roll.

 

Just so we're clear, the point of EH here is not to give Carnor a Barrel Roll action, he already has that. It's to let him shed Target Lock tokens. Also note that squints don't take a second stress token for EH, so you're either using PTL for a total of 1 stress, or EI for a total of 1 stress.

 

I agree that it's probably not the best build for Carnor, as he needs to be in range 1 of the enemy and can only get rid of 1 TL token per turn, making him susceptible to TL overload. But it's far from  "a waste", and it's 2 only points more than just PTL.

I don't know how to explain this any more clearly than I already have.

Before you reply, read the first sentence of Expert Handling. Re-read it. Keep re-reading it. Then read Experimental Interface and Push the Limit. Then reply.

Thanks.

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Then of course the one someone mentioned before:

Carnor Jax + Expert Handling + EI

Can't use Focus, Evade and can't TL me (beat that Dark Curse!).

What a waste of EI.
Why a waste??
Expert handling

Action: Perform a free barrel roll action...

Experimental Interface

Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action from an equipped Upgrade card with the "Action:" header. Then receive 1 stress token.

Using EI to trigger EH literally only gives you one additional stress at the cost of 3 more points.

As in, you're paying points for a disadvantage with no advantage whatsoever. It's a legal combo, but it's perhaps the worst combo in the game, unless you're trying to get the world record for number of stress tokens on Tychco. In that case, you can get 3 per turn.

Ok, I still don't understand. Expert Handling only gives a stress when you DON'T have BR in the action bar. It is essentially a TL shaking BR if you do have it already in the action bar. Thus you get the same amount of stress as if you'd have PtL equipped on your ship (i.e. One because of the second action) and you've just become a lot more slippery. Besides, 3/4 of the time I find myself using BR anyway, so its not like I'm losing out on another action I want to take.
How is it you understand what a "free action" is when it's on PtL and EI but not when it's on EH?

EH gives you a FREE barrel roll action. As in, if the absolute only upgrade on Carnor Jax is Expert Handling, he can use EH and still do a second action (that isn't another barrel roll) without any stress, because EH gives him a free action that has to be a barrel roll.

Put another way, EH's action is free. It says so on the card. PtL and EI also make it free, but with a stress token tax. Using PtL or EI on EH can't make it more free than free, so you're paying a stress tax for absolutely no reason whatsoever to those trying to win a game of X-Wing.

NO, the fact that it is a free action doesn't mean that you can perform another action after it because to trigger the free BR is an action. You're misunderstanding the card: it is an normal action that gives you a free BR action.

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Expanding what Revanchist said,

 

If any given the card has the "Action" header, activating it costs you an action, no matter what.

 

In the case of "Expert Handling", it costs a normal action to perform a free action. As crazy as it may sound, that's how it works. In its action step, Carnor Jax activates EH and performs his free barrel roll, but he can't do more actions (by himself) because he already spended its normal action activating Expert Handling.

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Read the FAQ.

Also, if you removed the word free from EH, would it be different? From your perspective, no. Therefore the word free is intentional and your reading is wrong.

Edit: I can see the counter argument, but it still doesn't make sense. Why not just write "Action: perform a barrel roll."?

Edited by Koshinn

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No Koshin, I'm afraid you have it wrong. Expert handling itself is an action of its own, separate from the BR it allows.

Card Title
Action: do X

The above card requires you to spend an action in order for you to do X. X can be a list of thing, we see that all the time, so it could be

Card Title
Action: do X and then do Y

Even with that format it is clear that the ship has to spend an action in order to do X and Y, whatever X and Y are. If the developers want to make a card that requires an action to use and has the ship perform a regular action and, in addition, gain some other benefit then it has to be formatted as

Action: do X and then do Y. Where X is "perform a free [whatever] action" and then do Y. The free part has to be there because the ship has already spent its one action for the turn just using the card. If "free" wasn't there the ship would need 2 actions just to use the card, one to trigger the card (that's what the "action:" header means, and once to do the barrel roll.

The card is saying. "Spend your action. Then perform a barrel roll that doesn't cost you another action and then shed a target lock."

Edited by Forgottenlore

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In fact the reasoning behind the wording "free BR action" is quite simple: there is a rule in the book that says that you can't do an action twice in the same turn. With the original wording, you could BR and then Expert Handle without breaking this rule, which meant basically doing TWO barrel rolls on the same turn. Devs thought it was bad, so they changed the wording.

 

Now: if you BR you can't Expert Handle because it says "Barrel Roll" (with the word "free" before there to make it explicit that it's indeed a true BR action, not a movement similar to a BR).

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