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Two-Handed Staff

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I'd like my warrior-monk type character to use a two handed staff or quarterstaff. Bit of a RPG fallback, but I'd like to present my GM with the description of a cheap staff weapon that my character could use from the point of character creation, and the description of  the truncheon doesn't quite fit. Electro-Staffs and Force Pikes are more setting specific (and more powerful), but I'd like something that's a bit more discreet and wouldn't immediately be identified as an offensive weapon, and thematically might be assumed to be a walking aid or religious accessory.  Mechanically I'd like something between a Truncheon and a Gaffi Stick.

 

How does this sound?

 

Two-Handed Staff

  • Skill: Melee
  • Damage: +2 (same as truncheon)
  • Critical: 4 (more versatile than truncheon hence more likely to be able to jab in ribs, eye, etc, but with less cutting, spiky attachments like the Gaffi Stick)
  • Range: Engaged.
  • Encumbrance: 3
  • Hard Points: 2
  • Price: 75
  • Rarity: 2
  • Qualities:  Defensive 1, Knockback (I wondered about Disorient here – rather than Knockback – but I think it needs something to make it sufficiently different to just a bludgeoning weapon and suggest  that you’re more likely to trip or otherwise upset someone’s footing)

Should it have Stun Damage?  (to convey its non lethal nature?)

 

Any other thoughts? 

 

 

 

 

 

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If it's simple staff, seems reasonable.  I would probably change these:

Crit: 5

Hard Points: 1

Price: 100

Rarity: 1

Qualities: Defensive 1, Disorient 1

 

There is no "Knockback", but there is a "Knockdown".  I think that would be overkill.

As for Stun, most weapons do Wound damage by default, even fists.  With Brawl, the user always has the option of doing Strain instead.  So if you wanted that possibility here, you could just say it has a Stun Setting.

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Something else you may want to bring up to your GM, in the Tales Of The Jedi, Jedi Master Vodo-Siosk Bass used a wooden quarter staff that he would imbue with force and could fight light saber wielding opponents. 

 

There are no rules for anything like this yet but perhaps spend a force point for the session to empower the staff to become un-sunderable and usable (within reason) with lightsaber form combat styles.

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Something else you may want to bring up to your GM, in the Tales Of The Jedi, Jedi Master Vodo-Siosk Bass used a wooden quarter staff that he would imbue with force and could fight light saber wielding opponents. 

 

There are no rules for anything like this yet but perhaps spend a force point for the session to empower the staff to become un-sunderable and usable (within reason) with lightsaber form combat styles.

Personally I'd allow Imbue to granted "Cannot be Sundered" to a melee weapon and then allow said weapon to Parry Lightsabers.

But I'm all cool with getting Narrative in my rules breaches.

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Something else you may want to bring up to your GM, in the Tales Of The Jedi, Jedi Master Vodo-Siosk Bass used a wooden quarter staff that he would imbue with force and could fight light saber wielding opponents. 

 

There are no rules for anything like this yet but perhaps spend a force point for the session to empower the staff to become un-sunderable and usable (within reason) with lightsaber form combat styles.

Actually there are rules for imbuing. page 102 Imbue item. 

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And Master Vodo's staff definitely could be Sundered. It was his Achilles heel.

 

Knockdown is not overkill, considering that you can do that unarmed. Also feels like something the quarterstaff should have. What about adding Cumbersome 2-3, Unwieldy 2-3 and Linked 1 to the item qualities, so you get sort of a de-powered electrostaff?

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Knockdown is not overkill, considering that you can do that unarmed. Also feels like something the quarterstaff should have. What about adding Cumbersome 2-3, Unwieldy 2-3 and Linked 1 to the item qualities, so you get sort of a de-powered electrostaff?

 

Then you have to change the cost.

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No, Refined Cortosis staff not really what I was looking for. A simple staff of wood or metal. The Imbue rules are interesting, thanks, but more something I would think about later, at the moment it's just a simple weapon for a starting character, I'm not so worried about it being particularly powerful or able to hold its own against a lightsaber. Plus the image of the mysterious, hooded wanderer with the staff is so iconic (cliched?) that I more or less picture Obi-Wan with one every time even though I don't think you ever actually see him with one. Know what I mean?

 

I think Knockdown conveys what I'd like to be able to do, I'm not sure why you think it's overpowered Whafrog, but you're more familiar with the system than I am. How would you cost it differently if it was included?   I think adding a Stun Setting, and Unwieldy 3 are good options.  I got the feeling that the Linked quality was a bit overpowered acually, or was seen that way, so I'm wary, even though it makes sense to give staff type weapons consistent qualities.  

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I actually raised the issue of "basic" melee weapons in a feedback email I sent this week. They haven't provided stats for anything but a truncheon and the combat knive, but in most cases it would appear that basic forms can be worked out by comparing the vibroknife and the combat knife, but some of the inconstancies make this harder. If a Vibrosword has Defensive 1, why doesn't a Cortosis Sword? And would a "generic" sword do so or not? The different types of staff also have this problem.

 

As Daeglan says the obvious solution to work out a "normal" staff is to remove the Cortosis quality from the Cortosis Staff. But then why does the electrostaff have all these extra qualities that the Cortosis Staff doesn't? Now, some can be put down to the details of the weapon (Stun Setting), and some which may be related to it's weight and weird balance (Cumbersome and Unwieldy), but others are less understandable. Why is an electrostaff Defensive (presumably related to the normal convention that a long reach and long parrying surface is beneficial in the defence) and Linked (which would appear to be related to being able to use each end to attack), but a Cortosis staff is not?

 

Now, these differences being down to balance, or even for the sake of variety, is fine, but I think that in that case we really should be provided with stats for generic weapons.

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Now, these differences being down to balance, or even for the sake of variety, is fine, but I think that in that case we really should be provided with stats for generic weapons.

 

I have to agree.  A staff is a staff is a staff, no matter what other abilities it has.  What's maybe missing is being able to unlock qualities depending on skill.  I've had a tiny bit of staff training, but not enough to treat it much more than a big club...okay, that's not entirely true, if I kept my head and got lucky I could probably manage a Linked 1 out of it.

 

Maybe for game balance they'd like to made a distinction between a simple wooden pole and an un-sunderable Cortosis staff, but I don't think that's a valid reason.

 

So, base for all staves:

Damage: +1

Crit:  5

HP: 0

Qualities:  Defensive 1, can be used with two-weapon fighting

Cost: 100

 

I think Linked 1 is too easy.  Allowing two-weapon fighting increases the difficulty but still allows for the second hit.  There should be a Quality for this...

Edit:  I'd like to post this in the Mechanics forum...

 

Other staffs just add damage, reduce crit rating, or add qualities like Stun setting or Cortosis.

Edited by whafrog

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I really like the idea of having a standard staff modelled after the bo or quarterstave.

But I would like to make do without the need for a new Item Quality.

 

I think allowing two-handed fighting is more flexible than Linked 1, since you are allowed to attack two different opponents. Linked doesn't allow you to split your attack like this. As for raising the difficulty, I think that's what the Cumbersome/Unwieldy qualities are meant to do - that's why they need to be high enough so that the difficulty will be about 3 purple for most characters.

 

Here's my suggestion:

 

Dam +2, Crit 5, Range Engaged, Enc 3, HP 2, Price 100, Rarity 2; Unwieldy 3, Linked 1, Defensive 1, Disorient 2.

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I really like the idea of having a standard staff modelled after the bo or quarterstave.

But I would like to make do without the need for a new Item Quality.

 

I think allowing two-handed fighting is more flexible than Linked 1, since you are allowed to attack two different opponents. Linked doesn't allow you to split your attack like this. As for raising the difficulty, I think that's what the Cumbersome/Unwieldy qualities are meant to do - that's why they need to be high enough so that the difficulty will be about 3 purple for most characters.

 

Here's my suggestion:

 

Dam +2, Crit 5, Range Engaged, Enc 3, HP 2, Price 100, Rarity 2; Unwieldy 3, Linked 1, Defensive 1, Disorient 2.

Which is great and all. But the point of this thread is about having consistency more than it is about having a new quality. IE the double lightsaber, electro staff and refined cortosis staff should all start from the same base weapon and be modified according to what makes them different than a simple staff. So that all staff weapons are consistent. 

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Hmmmm. I think the descrtiption you posted above is viable, Gran, so thanks. I think Unwieldy is a good option. When you said you thought allowing two-handed fighting made it more flexible, in the sense of potentially attacking two opponents, at the cost of additional difficulty, I thought that made it the more representative choice.

 

My GM and I have decided to go with a very basic staff weapon with the  Defensive and Disorient qualities; it doesn't entirely satisfy thematically what I would like the item to do, but it seemed more important to get the game going than get bogged down in the details.

 

But I agree in general that it would be helpful for staff weapons to have consistent qualities, I might try and post some thoughts in the Game Mechanics thread.

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Aye, well, as it stands you make a good point, but initially I would have liked to use something that emphasised the non-lethal properties and used a quality that differentiated it from that kind of edged mace/bludgeon. Needlessly complicated perhaps.

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Aye, well, as it stands you make a good point, but initially I would have liked to use something that emphasised the non-lethal properties and used a quality that differentiated it from that kind of edged mace/bludgeon. Needlessly complicated perhaps.

A quarterstaff can still break bones and cause lasting injuries, much as a truncheon/nightstick can.  It may not have been a fantastic weapon in comparison to something like an axe or a sword, but it was still a weapon, albeit one more often used for personal defense.  The Disorient quality on the gaffi stick works well enough (I think) to reflect a heavy blow that leaves the target dazed/off-balance.

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A quarterstaff can still break bones and cause lasting injuries, much as a truncheon/nightstick can.  It may not have been a fantastic weapon in comparison to something like an axe or a sword, but it was still a weapon, albeit one more often used for personal defense.  The Disorient quality on the gaffi stick works well enough (I think) to reflect a heavy blow that leaves the target dazed/off-balance.

When I was training heavy weapons in the SCA, the saying was "Real weapons plus real technique equals real injuries".

That was their explanation for why they used swords and other weapons made out of Rattan (kind of like a solid bamboo), because those would be fake weapons, which they could then use with realistic techniques, and hopefully avoid most of the real injuries.

In contrast, the Marklander group used real swords with fake technique (it was much more like a dance that was choreographed on the fly).

But then we get to the issue of staffs. A Rattan staff would still be a pretty normal staff, which would mean if you used it with real techniques, then you would get real injuries. So, the SCA banned the use of staffs.

So, yeah — a staff can actually seriously hurt someone who is wearing real armor. You just have to know how to use it properly. Giving it the length required plus the ability to grip the weapon most anywhere along it’s length, that turns a piece of Rattan into something that can actually be really dangerous.

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Aye, well, as it stands you make a good point, but initially I would have liked to use something that emphasised the non-lethal properties and used a quality that differentiated it from that kind of edged mace/bludgeon. Needlessly complicated perhaps.

 

As noted, it doesn't have "non-lethal properties".  It does/should have Defensive, which is a differentiating quality.

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