Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
The Wizard

Transformed

Recommended Posts

Hi there!

The card says you must use alle printed values and abilities of the the character you are transformed into. If i am transformed into, lets say, the knight, do you then get a sword and an armor as this is one of the kinghts printed abilities?, and if you do, what happens when you transform back to your original character.

 

Best regards

Edited by The Wizard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Transformed you keep all of your stuff, including Life, Fate, Strength and Craft counters that you've gained. You just have to use the abilities and printed values of the new character instead of the original one.

 

Abilities that grant you something at the beginning of the game should not apply in this case. It's not like taking a character as a replacement, effectively restarting your game, but continuing the current game with a different character.

 

This is how I would play it. However, you're probably right that there's some uncertainty about this card. It's a very innovative effect and the thick text box is not enough to cover all instances.

Edited by The_Warlock

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You´re probably right Warlock, but it seems odd, that if you transform into the Spider Queen , you´ll have a character with zero abilities :)  Also, the card says you must use all printed special abilities, but in this case you are actually ignoring an ability. ( even though, i don´t see, how starting with an axe can be a special ability :D  )

 

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You´re probably right Warlock, but it seems odd, that if you transform into the Spider Queen , you´ll have a character with zero abilities :)  Also, the card says you must use all printed special abilities, but in this case you are actually ignoring an ability. ( even though, i don´t see, how starting with an axe can be a special ability :D  )

 

Regards

 

I think you're misinterpreting it. From my understanding, you inherit:

  • All "special abilities" and their associated tokens (e.g. web and crawler tokens, totem spirit tokens, etc.)
  • Strength and Craft values
  • Life and fate values

But you don't:

  • Inherit any "special ability" that says, "You begin the game with..."
  • Adjust your life counters or fate tokens.
  • Change alignment (I think.)

Example: The Knight has a Strength value of 4, Craft value of 3, life value of 4, and fate value of 1. Currently, he has 2 Strength counters and 2 Craft counters, for a total Strength of 6 and Craft of 5. He also has 2 life, 1 fate, a Sword, and Armour.

 

He is then transformed into the Ancient Oak. His Strength value is reduced to 3 and his Craft value reduced to 2, and he keeps his Strength and Craft counters. His total Strength is now 5 and his Craft is now 4. His life value is unchanged at 4, but his life (counters) remain at 2. His fate value is increased to 2, but his fate (tokens) remain at 1. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the Ancient Oak would begin as good alignment.

 

He does not begin with a growth token on his character card. He keeps his Sword and Armour, but because he's the Ancient Oak, he can't use them. He gets the Ancient Oak's other abilities including those related to growth tokens for the duration of his transformation. If the Ancient Oak is neutral or evil when he transforms back to the Knight, then the Knight would become good automatically as per his ability.

Edited by Artaterxes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

I think you're misinterpreting it. From my understanding, you inherit:

  • All "special abilities" and their associated tokens (e.g. web and crawler tokens, totem spirit tokens, etc.)
  • Strength and Craft values
  • Life and fate values

But you don't:

  • Inherit any "special ability" that says, "You begin the game with..."
  • Adjust your life counters or fate tokens.
  • Change alignment (I think.)

 

 

This means that the Spider Queen do not get any tokens if you are transformed into her, and therefore will have no abilities at all, as all her abilities is related to her spider tokens? The same goes for the Scout who will only have the 2 minor abilities.

 

As for the Dread Knight, he will not get a warhorse, but i guess you can still get one for free if landing on the graveyard?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem lies in the wording "You begin the game with x xxxx tokens on your character card". Obviously not having the character tokens would be a great penalty. I think they could be an exception, since they are not "possessions" but tools used to play the abilities.

 

The only case that matters is the Ancient Oak, who effectively starts the game with a Growth Token. I'm inclined to say that a character transformed into the Ancient Oak receives all 5 Growth Tokens to use, but not the first Growth Token because it's a "start of the game" dotation.

 

As I said, I agree with you and your doubts. This side effect of the card is rather unclear and requires some official word.

Edited by The_Warlock

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boo. Im going to look into this stay tuned for update post.

 

Edit: Well I read Transformed and I personally find that "you begin the game" special abilities should be allowed I say this because:

 

A) The "using all printed values, special abilities, etc" in transformed game text.

B) "You begin the game" abilities are allowed when a player dies and becomes a new character.

C) The Special Ability vs Rules Golden Rule page 15 Talisman Rules.

D) The term "you begin the game" impilies to when a player starts the game with that character not when the game starts as that character.

 

Not to mention that some Characters are useless or very weakened if they do not have their "you begin the game" abilities. I think if it was designed to disallow the "you begin the game" abilities it would of said so somewhere in the Woodlands rules.

 

I find this does not require some official word but if it was designed to disallow the "you begin the game" abilities it needs a amendment to the Woodlands Rules or added to a FAQ.

Edited by Uvatha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a character is killed and takes on a new character half way through the game, then they would get the "you start with..." abilities.

 

As such, does it not make sense that you would get them when you are transformed?

 

Of course, if that's the case then it brings up the issue of what to do when you transform back - do you discard the objects/spells you gained at the start?  

 

If you start( or are transformed during) the game with "tokens" then obviously you would have to have them but you would no longer have them when you revert to your original character. (There's no way the priest should be able to use growth tokens for example) It simply could not be. The same should probably apply to objects and spells.

 

It certainly brings up a grey area and invites an FAQ!!!

Edited by adjogi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you start( or are transformed during) the game with "tokens" then obviously you would have to have them but you would no longer have them when you revert to your original character. (There's no way the priest should be able to use growth tokens for example) It simply could not be. The same should probably apply to objects and spells.

 

It certainly brings up a grey area and invites an FAQ!!!

page 13 Woodlands Rules: "If a character who uses tokens is killed, remove all of his tokens from the game".

 

Now even though it uses the word "killed" again it is implied to mean "Untransformed" too given that removing a character from game is basically "killed" and if "as players" we take the word of the rules "word for word" then we would be alot of trouble given the size and the substance of the rules.

 

Now I know there is going to be "What about the Valkyrie then?" but her special ability referes to followers and followers can be discarded as well as killed but Characters cannot be discarded they either are "killed" or are "transformed" into something. All in all its not a biggy in rulings just could of been worded better but hey alot of the rules "could" of been worded better both after later expansions or just generally.

 

As for Spells and Items etc well nothing is said about them thus you must keep them. If it was the opposite then it would say. It might come later in a FAQ but until then we have this so... Happy Transforming :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking about the Vampiress as well. But not on this issue. I'm quite sure that you change your alignment when you're transformed though and revert back when you're returned to your original for. To many abilities would be crippled otherwise. This means you might find your Runesword or Holy grail at the other side of the board but that's just tough luck I guess.

This would go for starting location as well I think. Not that you would go there unless you use the Hearth rune or something similar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We just played it that you didn't get any items and that was it.

 

It only lasts a few turns anyway, so getting free swords and armour is kinda silly since they'd stay after the effect.  

 

They really do need a FAQ update to clear up things, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...