Developing List: Roark, this is Rebel Control

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

I don't do Rebels often but my best friend likes to run Phantoms right now so I drew this up.  I think it's awfully fun looking.

 

Roark + Ion Turret + tactician

Rebel Op + ion turret + tactician

Biggs + Flechette

Bandit

Bandit

 

He also laughs at the Hwk so I figured this would teach him a lesson.  Yes, I know I have 4pts in stress that will probably only happen twice a game each.

 

This list is all about denying options.  It features 2 turrets, 2 ion threats, 3 stress threats, dictates your firing order for you, and ALWAYS shoots first.  I don't know how you could take away any more options from your opponent.

 

The Ships:

 

Roark: He does a little bit of magic here with his PS tricks, turret, and stress.  You would want to take him out first but Biggs says you can't.  I prefer Blaster and recon (same cost) and that is probably the stronger list; I'll talk about that in Variants.

 

Rebel Op: a second turret, Ion, and a second stress source.  5 hp backed by 2 AG can last long enough to deliver the control needed.  Especially when it can shoot at PS 12 when needed.  Tactician on both HWK creates 2 phantom no fly zones.  If they get caught there, they are getting stressed for sure and probably taking 1-2 ion shots.

 

Biggs: We all hate him.  He's better here since he is pretty well garunteed 2 rounds of offense and if you get him to shoot 3 times (probably twice at PS 12) he's a pretty **** good value. Flechette gives him a better chance at dealing meaningful damage at range 3 AND makes the 2 HWKs a pain.   WOE to the ship that lands in all 3 arcs at range 2; that's a pretty well garunteed round of ion and 3 stress for your trouble.  You are out of the game.  Not a bad addition for 2pts.

 

Bandits: Not PS 1 for total blocking but still can muck up the game well enough in tandem and provide more gunz and more hp.

 

Trix:

No fly Zones- The tacticians on the Ion Hwk's and the flechette on Biggs creates a range 2 no fly zone.  Any ship that lands there is out of the game.  Large ships too since there is double Ion action here.  There are also 5 ships, 2 of which are turrets, and 2 dedicated "blockers". There are simply a lot of zones to consider.

 

Stress/Ion- Locks phantoms if it hits.  Locks interceptors.  Messes with just about any game plan.  You can quickly find yourself double stressed too.  The opening round(s) are going to key.

 

Biggs Shoots first: as dicussed above, getting an extra round of shooting out of Biggs is BIG.  If you get 3 rounds of shooting out of him things are probably going your way fast if he was even mildly successful on offense.

 

PROBLEM AREAS:

5 ships, only 1 has anything resembling a big gun.

 

 

Variants:

Blast it: Trade in your Ion+Tactician for Blaster and Recon.  Suddenly you're a list with 3 or 4 three red dice ships.  Not sure if Blaster Turret is good enough.  I'd be tempted to turn Biggs into Garven for that extra focus.

 

Bwing:

Bwingvs. bandits.  You can do interesting things on the ion or flechette front with a bwing. Blaster Roark + Ion Rebel op + Bwing with ion or flechette and Biggs sounds good. Might need the big gun to punch.  You could also turn that 23pt Rebel Captive into a Bwing and lose tactician on Roark for Ion Roark + Ion Bwing + Biggs +double bandit.  Both are interesting.

 

So is this just a little too much of a good thing list?  Where can it improve and still control most of the game state?  

 

 

 

[Blail Blerg 7,335]

I'm not that fond of having two ion turret / 1 damage ships in the list.  

Your damage is kind of minimal.

Tactician is absolutely worthless where you've put them.  Try and use flechettes or R3-A2 instead.  Consider dropping the second HWK and a Z for a high PS X-wing.  

 

Otherwise, you might as well just go and play 4 HWKs.  

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

I know the problems, just introducing some new ways to think and a baseline to improve (that's what these threads are all about)...My variants all involve upping damage and tacticians are the first to go.  I don't think they're useless as the first pass they will certainly come into play and the "no fly zones" they create are tactically interesting at least.

[iPeregrine 685]

Remember that tactician only works if the target is in your arc, not if you take an out-of-arc shot with the turret. And considering how awful the HWK's dial is you'll be lucky if you get to use your tacticians even once per game.

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

I'm well aware of the in arc requirement. You're spending 2 pts (on 2 ships) to create 2 spaces that if a ships lands in or touching, they are stressed and possibly ionized and possibly double stressed. Optimal? Probably not. But tactically interesting in a list with other control elements. See also Variants.

And the hwk dial isn't bad minus the Kturn.

[Rinehart 684]

You have torpedoes on Biggs.  You'll need to take a TL to be able to shoot those torpedoes at anyone.  If you want Biggs to survive for 3 rounds like you are saying above, I think you'll need to be Focusing with Biggs, and not taking Target Locks.  A non focused Xwing doesn't last long to sustained fire.  If you want a stress effect with Biggs, use R3A2.  I'm guessing you aren't moving Biggs more than a green move each turn anyway, so the stress Biggs takes from the droid is totally manageable.  

 

I think you'll find that TLing with Biggs is a luxury that you probably can't afford, if you want him to stay alive for 3 rounds.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Rinehart

[ForceSensitive 1,991]

I am intrigued by your list. It sounds edgy but some tweaks could make it kind of awesome. Thanks for reminding me of Roark in standard. I was brain locked that he was basically for epic. I've been using Near for Flechette/advanced one-two punch like your no fly zone. Cheers! I'm going to try this

[cody campbell 361]

A long time ago I used to have success with:

 

Roark + Blaster+Recon

Tarn Mison

Blue Squadron + FCS

Blue Squadron + FCS

 

This is pre-Phantom/Fat Han, so I'm not really sure how it would hold up in today's environment.  However, I do love HWK's and any list including them is an awesome one by default.  

 

I agree about Tacticians being ineffective...most of the time, if targets are in your HWK's arc @ Range 2, you're jousting.  And if you're jousting, you're dying.  Even if you Ion'ed a target with it, the HWK probably can't escape the enemy arc fast enough.  I would say switch everyone to blaster turrets, but that doesn't fit the list's theme and can get shutdown with Dark Curse or Carnor Jax (I know from experience...)

 

What about this?

In order of Piloting Skill....

Biggs Darklighter + R4-D6 (Take stress to cancel hits if you get hit 3 or more times)

Roark Garnet + Blaster Turret + Reconnaissance Specialist 

Rebel Operative + Ion Cannon Turret + Jan Ors (Biggs can focus, then make it an evade)

Blue Squadron Pilot + Ion Cannon

 

I'm essentially trading your stress capabilities for more offensive ones, plus I'm assuming you have the Rebel Transport and Rebel Aces.   I'd imagine Biggs and the two HWK's would need to stay in a cluster, while the B-Wing would go off on his own.  Similar to the Lambda Shuttle, if you get behind a HWK it's much easier to deal with.  The B-Wing could try and keep it's arc covering their rear, and the Range 3 Ion Cannon could shut down some flankers.  If you enemy goes for the B, try to slow play him and force them closer to the HWK/Biggs cluster.  

 

Regardless, congrats on contributing to the glory known as the HWK-290!!  May you forever bask in its light!

[Dzerards 34]

I need to buy a second HWK 

 

I would agree your original list looks fun. Make sure to lettuce know how you get on with it!

 

One thing I would say is that the range 2 zone in front of an enemy formation is already a no go zone for phantoms as it is!   

[Sir Osis of Liver 126]

I'm experimenting with the following:

Roark +ICT + Nien Nunb + EU

Ibtisam + ST + FCS

Blue + FCS

Prototype pilot + Chardaan Refit

I'm looking at swapping Ibby out and run 2 Blues with E2 + RecSpec + FCS. I need to learn how to effectively use the HWK in that configuration, as it has no problem keeping up with the A. The trick, as I'm seeing it, is keeping them close enough to pass the 12,but still dodge arcs. I'm not experienced enough a pilot yet to effectively pull that off, but I'm working on it.

[Sir Osis of Liver 126]

The A is, literally, the HWK's wingman, just without the upgrade card.

[cody campbell 361]

The A is, literally, the HWK's wingman, just without the upgrade card.

I've always wanted to put EU on the HWK, but never had to points for it.  Awesome!  

 

That said, what is the reasoning for pairing the A-Wing and the HWK?  I could understand if you were running Draw their Fire on a Green Squadron, or something to that effect.  To me, I would think the A-Wing should hang back about Range 2 from the HWK so when it hits with the Ion Turret, the A could hopefully capitalize on that and get into Range 1 of the target.   

[Sir Osis of Liver 126]

The A is, literally, the HWK's wingman, just without the upgrade card.

I've always wanted to put EU on the HWK, but never had to points for it.  Awesome!  

 

That said, what is the reasoning for pairing the A-Wing and the HWK?  I could understand if you were running Draw their Fire on a Green Squadron, or something to that effect.  To me, I would think the A-Wing should hang back about Range 2 from the HWK so when it hits with the Ion Turret, the A could hopefully capitalize on that and get into Range 1 of the target.

Actually, my original plan was to pair the HWK with a Z-95, and use the wingman to keep the HWK's 6 clear by letting it lag behind, and get an easy range 1 shot at anything that got on Roark's tail. Problem was, that without EU, the Z couldn't keep up. When Rebel Aces came out, and I could stick Chardaan Refit on the A, problem solved. Now it's just a matter of figuring out how to best use them in the fight.

[Sir Osis of Liver 126]

The EU + NN combo makes the HWK extremely mobile. Biggest problem I see so far is no K-turn.

[Revanchist 1,063]

I need to buy a second HWK 

 

I would agree your original list looks fun. Make sure to lettuce know how you get on with it!

 

One thing I would say is that the range 2 zone in front of an enemy formation is already a no go zone for phantoms as it is!

Need some tomato and bacon to go with that lettuce!!

All seriousness I like the list, sounds like loads of fun. I'd fly it for fun, but I would switch out one of the ICT/Tactician combos for a Blaster Turret/RecSpec for a bit more damage potential. Also switching out the Talas for a Blue + FCS.

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

So everyone agrees that this list is for Funzies as is, but it could b decent with a damage bump. Which hwk gets blaster recon? Both? Zs vs. bwing? 2 changes or all three?

[tiefanatic 453]

You're going over to the Light side???

You shall be reported to the nearest Imperial Commando squad. -calls Squad 40-

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

You're going over to the Light side???

You shall be reported to the nearest Imperial Commando squad. -calls Squad 40-

Ha!  Never! I assure you, all my paperwork is in order.  I have an order detailing my use of non-imperial class and the purposes I can use them for.  Be sure to register your own use  with high command.  I'd hate to have to turn my guns towards you.

 

The whole point of these threads for me is theoretical brain exercise.  I'll fly a list like this a few times to see if I can make it do something more than it should and it's always nice to get some play time behind the other side SO YOU KNOW HOW TO BEST CRUSH THEM!  This was already a funzies list so I won't put in the 20 or so games I usually do with a list unless it really surprises me somehow.  

[Revanchist 1,063]

So everyone agrees that this list is for Funzies as is, but it could b decent with a damage bump. Which hwk gets blaster recon? Both? Zs vs. bwing? 2 changes or all three?

One HWK should definitely keep the ICT, and I think that is Roark, because you need to avoid people tailing you and forcing the 1-straight is a way to do this (plus that means you can have a PS 12 360° BT shot from the Rebel Operative too). As for the Z-95 v. B-wing, I really don't know. I think while Biggs is alive that B-wing is better, but when he dies more ships (thus the Zeds) should provide the advantage.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Revanchist

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

I thought about the Jan Crew too. An extra HP a round makes this sound a bit tougher (and keeps Biggs in the game). So:

Roark + ion + Jan

Rebel Op + blaster + recon

Biggs

26pts left

2 talas vs. adv sens Blue/ion blue/stress blue. The Jan interaction makes Garven tempting but at only 1/round probably not. Blue ion or flechette keeps the original feel intact but 2 talas (or bandits and a droid for Biggs) is pretty efficient.

[ID X T 820]

I feel like someone with swarm tactics to potentially reflect Roark's PS back to him (and his phantom hunting ion cannon) would be a good bet in this list.

Tarn with the EPT droid plus swarm tactics would fit for 26 points but it doesn't really synergise with T's ability like the R7 does.

[tiefanatic 453]

You're going over to the Light side???

You shall be reported to the nearest Imperial Commando squad. -calls Squad 40-

Ha!  Never! I assure you, all my paperwork is in order.  I have an order detailing my use of non-imperial class and the purposes I can use them for.  Be sure to register your own use  with high command.  I'd hate to have to turn my guns towards you.

 

The whole point of these threads for me is theoretical brain exercise.  I'll fly a list like this a few times to see if I can make it do something more than it should and it's always nice to get some play time behind the other side SO YOU KNOW HOW TO BEST CRUSH THEM!  This was already a funzies list so I won't put in the 20 or so games I usually do with a list unless it really surprises me somehow.

Oh of course I have my paperwork in order. That was done a long time ago, when I first became a fleet admiral. You BETTER have your paperwork in order. Or else I shall have a squad of Jonus Brothers sent to your base to kill all the heretics in it.

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

Here are 2 other interesting Variants:

Roark + Ion + Jan

Rebel Op + Blaster + Recon

Biggs

Blue + FCS + Flechette

 

Hits pretty darn hard and still does the stress thing.

 

Roark + Ion

Nera + Flechette + APT + E2 + recon+ deadey

Biggs

Bandit

 

I think I like the first better.  It does a lot of the things I want it to do.  I've been keeping Biggs Naked, I think those points are needed to increase offense.  

[shakaumruk 19]

In thinking this:

Roark + blaster turret + re con spec

Blues squadron pilot

Wedge+ EU+ r2d2+ outmanover

Bandit squadron

Have wedge elusive and make damage alone. Roark give 12 on blues squadron,and try to kill anyone.

Also:

Roark + ion

Blues squad pilot

Rookie pilot x-wing

Luke + r2d2+ VI

This is more offensive. More target for roark, but Jim only supporto with ion.

What do you thinks?

Edited October 4, 2014 by shakaumruk

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

Losing Biggs takes away some of the control elements of this list.  Wedge clearly fills in for wedge but that's a lot of points in something that will die fast.

 

 

and...

 

 

You're going over to the Light side???
You shall be reported to the nearest Imperial Commando squad. -calls Squad 40-

Ha!  Never! I assure you, all my paperwork is in order.  I have an order detailing my use of non-imperial class and the purposes I can use them for.  Be sure to register your own use  with high command.  I'd hate to have to turn my guns towards you.
 
The whole point of these threads for me is theoretical brain exercise.  I'll fly a list like this a few times to see if I can make it do something more than it should and it's always nice to get some play time behind the other side SO YOU KNOW HOW TO BEST CRUSH THEM!  This was already a funzies list so I won't put in the 20 or so games I usually do with a list unless it really surprises me somehow.

Oh of course I have my paperwork in order. That was done a long time ago, when I first became a fleet admiral. You BETTER have your paperwork in order. Or else I shall have a squad of Jonus Brothers sent to your base to kill all the heretics in it.

 

Hand written, in triplicate, with local, field, and high command offices... And, just for the record, the only Jonus Brothers that actually scare me are that late 90's bop band...that 12 year old drummer might have been satan himself!

 

and what's with all the accusations about me being a traitor lately?