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In game PC Death

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 I am the GM of our Dark Heresy sessions, now its our first time playing so my PC's didnt know what characters to make, I told them to just be the one who they would like the most to play in the game. Now some of the PC's dont like there characters and we have been playing a while now, they are all the sixth rank I believe. They told me they wanted to make new characters and I said no because that would cause confusion and they would be way behind the other PC'c in rank that is. Well, they responded by killing them selfs in the game, they told me i have no other choice but to let them make new characters. I honestly do not know how to respond to this, I dont want them to think dark heresy is a game where they can just die and everything will be fine. That would give them the idea its like a computer game like WOW where character creation is no big deal. Please help, WHAT DO I DO?!?!?

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If they really mean it, then let the inquistor step in and say that the x acolytes are needed elsewhere and x replacesment acolytes from a broken cell will be joining them, and then let them make a character with 10% less xp and there current IP and CP -3+1d10.

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er... let them make new characters?

Why are you hesitant to do such? After all, if they are not enjoying their characters, then they aren't having a good time. The fact that they killed their characters off is rather evident of this. The First responsibility of a GM is to insure that all the players are having fun during the gaming session. When he or she discovers one or more aren't enjoying themselves, then he or she needs to find out what hey can do to remedy that situation.

You are correct, this is most definitly not WoW. The characters the players had are now dead (though you might want to ret-con some of that if it was particularly disturbing to the internal logic and constancy of the story). What those characters saw and did is gone. The narrative will move on and acknowledge that those characters are never to walk the stars again. The characters they make next will be different. They will be different individuals with different reasons for doing what they do. They will experience different things, gain different experiences, and grow differently. It's not WoW, they aren't reseting the game or rezing a character to run through the same story arcs or missions again -they are bringing in a whole brand-spanking new one that will never have the chance of doing what their other characters did and those that knew the deceased will know they will never again see that person. They are dead.

Wanting to try out different characters is not a bad thing nor is realizing the character you're playing is no longer fun, it happens. A player shouldn't be forced to play a character they no longer find fun to play. The game for them will become frustrating and they will respond out of frustration. That is something you want to avoid in your games. In the future, you may wish to allow your players to create new characters and cycle their old one onto the back burner as a back-up if anything should happen to their new character. It works out great as, in situations where one character is laid up for weeks on end, the other character can be pulled in so the player can go on playing. If one of their characters gets captured/imprisoned/etc (especially their favorite one) then they can pull out their back-up and help the group try and find/free their missing character. They get the thrill of fear for their favorite characters life, you get to have them imprisoned/incapacitated and heavily abused, and the player still gets to play and work like a madman to find a way to save their main -it's wonderful motivation ;-) Beyond that, if the worst should happen and their character dies mid session, they don't have to call it a night and you won't have to stop the game for character generation. They could simply pull in their back-up character which not only has the benefit of being premade, but said character is already, to one degree or another, a part of the plot.

XP wise, I usually give out 1/3 of the deceased character's earned xp for the new character that will replace him. If the player is just making a secondary or third character to try something new or cycle out their main without retiring them, they have to start from 400. I've had a rank 1 teamed with a rank 5 before and it doesn't seem to be ill-balanced. The characters still did things, or failed as the case may b, the story still flowed, and all had fun.

 

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You should have attempted to come to some kind of arrangement with them either having them write up a new group then having them getting assigned to the old groups misssions or have them write up characters and at a reduced xp and give them XP bonus's for roleplaying thier death properly and penalties for blatent suicide. Then write in some auto deaths to the next scenario but dont tell them when its coming and try and find away of using that death to enhance the story in some way.

I had a situation recently where one person decided they wanted a new character which resulted in someone else wanting one (although he is so fickle when it comes to characters anyway), combined with a good chance of the other 2 players dying due to having 1 Fate Point between them I was left with the chance of half the group dying and the other half commiting suicide. I told them that the XP of the new characters depended on the number of survivors from the mission. They were sitting at around 2700xp so I said if 1 person dies they get 2700xp for the new character, 2 people is 2000xp and 3 or more would drop them down to 1500xp for their new character. Even if only one person died they would be down the xp for the mission so it was an incentive for anyone who wasn't dead set agaisnt it to stay alive. As it happens the only person who died was the player who had wanted it in the first place and he did it by staying behind to let everyone else escape. (I shouldn't take credit for that going so well as I said someone needed to stay behind for the plan to work totally forgetting that one of the players was looking for a heroic death anyway.)

I agree with Graver though, it is your job to make sure they are having fun so you should have tried to find a solution that satisfied everyone. As for the suicide thing you should really have seen that one coming a mile off I would be surprised if my players didn't decide to jump off a bridge just to spite me if I had flat out refused them. As long as my players aren't just deciding to change characters for the hell of it which is annoying for me to write them in I am fine with them making a new one

 

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Um, Dark Heresy is a game where you die and everything will be fine.  You are expendable.  You are the first ones to go in.  If you screw up, they send in the bigger guys.  If they screw up, you have a chaos invasion or an orc infestation, and they send space marines.

 

Characters should die.  Its the 40k universe.  If no one has been in danger of dying yet, where is the fun?  You know no matter what you do you will survive.

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RoBro said:

 I am the GM of our Dark Heresy sessions, now its our first time playing so my PC's didnt know what characters to make, I told them to just be the one who they would like the most to play in the game. Now some of the PC's dont like there characters and we have been playing a while now, they are all the sixth rank I believe. They told me they wanted to make new characters and I said no because that would cause confusion and they would be way behind the other PC'c in rank that is. Well, they responded by killing them selfs in the game, they told me i have no other choice but to let them make new characters. I honestly do not know how to respond to this, I dont want them to think dark heresy is a game where they can just die and everything will be fine. That would give them the idea its like a computer game like WOW where character creation is no big deal. Please help, WHAT DO I DO?!?!?

Simple. Don't let them play any more. They had their character, they wasted the opportunity, they don't deserve to play in your game.

They don't understand you're god in your game, and while playing that game, you're essentially in charge. Of everything.They live and die at your whim, and should be thankful for the opportunity. This isn't about *their* fun, this is about *your* fun. So tell them they had their chance but blew it.

 

 

 

/Don't do this.

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TheFlatline said:

RoBro said:

 

 I am the GM of our Dark Heresy sessions, now its our first time playing so my PC's didnt know what characters to make, I told them to just be the one who they would like the most to play in the game. Now some of the PC's dont like there characters and we have been playing a while now, they are all the sixth rank I believe. They told me they wanted to make new characters and I said no because that would cause confusion and they would be way behind the other PC'c in rank that is. Well, they responded by killing them selfs in the game, they told me i have no other choice but to let them make new characters. I honestly do not know how to respond to this, I dont want them to think dark heresy is a game where they can just die and everything will be fine. That would give them the idea its like a computer game like WOW where character creation is no big deal. Please help, WHAT DO I DO?!?!?

 

 

Simple. Don't let them play any more. They had their character, they wasted the opportunity, they don't deserve to play in your game.

They don't understand you're god in your game, and while playing that game, you're essentially in charge. Of everything.They live and die at your whim, and should be thankful for the opportunity. This isn't about *their* fun, this is about *your* fun. So tell them they had their chance but blew it.

 

 

 

/Don't do this.

 

 

OMG LULZ!

 

 

 Just let them make new characters that they will enjoy. Remember, they're new to the game, and may have made characters that might've been interesting at the time, but they realized their interests lie elsewhere. You'll have an overall better game session with players who are actively interested in forwarding their characters and the plot, and that sometimes means changing characters a bit. Of course there might be a penalty for changing (one of the posters above gave a reasonable penalty), but if their adamant about new characters, they'll take the pen and move on from there.

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TheFlatline said:

RoBro said:

 

 I am the GM of our Dark Heresy sessions, now its our first time playing so my PC's didnt know what characters to make, I told them to just be the one who they would like the most to play in the game. Now some of the PC's dont like there characters and we have been playing a while now, they are all the sixth rank I believe. They told me they wanted to make new characters and I said no because that would cause confusion and they would be way behind the other PC'c in rank that is. Well, they responded by killing them selfs in the game, they told me i have no other choice but to let them make new characters. I honestly do not know how to respond to this, I dont want them to think dark heresy is a game where they can just die and everything will be fine. That would give them the idea its like a computer game like WOW where character creation is no big deal. Please help, WHAT DO I DO?!?!?

 

 

Simple. Don't let them play any more. They had their character, they wasted the opportunity, they don't deserve to play in your game.

They don't understand you're god in your game, and while playing that game, you're essentially in charge. Of everything.They live and die at your whim, and should be thankful for the opportunity. This isn't about *their* fun, this is about *your* fun. So tell them they had their chance but blew it.

 

 

 

/Don't do this.

TheFlatline said:

RoBro said:

 

 I am the GM of our Dark Heresy sessions, now its our first time playing so my PC's didnt know what characters to make, I told them to just be the one who they would like the most to play in the game. Now some of the PC's dont like there characters and we have been playing a while now, they are all the sixth rank I believe. They told me they wanted to make new characters and I said no because that would cause confusion and they would be way behind the other PC'c in rank that is. Well, they responded by killing them selfs in the game, they told me i have no other choice but to let them make new characters. I honestly do not know how to respond to this, I dont want them to think dark heresy is a game where they can just die and everything will be fine. That would give them the idea its like a computer game like WOW where character creation is no big deal. Please help, WHAT DO I DO?!?!?

 

 

Simple. Don't let them play any more. They had their character, they wasted the opportunity, they don't deserve to play in your game.

They don't understand you're god in your game, and while playing that game, you're essentially in charge. Of everything.They live and die at your whim, and should be thankful for the opportunity. This isn't about *their* fun, this is about *your* fun. So tell them they had their chance but blew it.

 

 

 

/Don't do this.

 

 

OMG LULZ!

 

 

 Just let them make new characters that they will enjoy. Remember, they're new to the game, and may have made characters that might've been interesting at the time, but they realized their interests lie elsewhere. You'll have an overall better game session with players who are actively interested in forwarding their characters and the plot, and that sometimes means changing characters a bit. Of course there might be a penalty for changing (one of the posters above gave a reasonable penalty), but if they're adamant about new characters, they'll take the pen and move on from there.

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Your first mistake is not letting them make new characters.  Dark Heresy is set up so that a level 1 character and a level 5 character are not really all that different.  I mean its like 8 hp and maybe 11hp if they took the right upgrades.  That is the beauty of DH.  In my group we have people of all different levels and its not a problem.

And its perfectly reasonable that an acolyte decides that he is not cut out for Ordos work and goes back to his mundane life.

Don't be a ****** to your players and they will probably respect you more when you have to make the really tough calls.

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People over reacting a bit, if people really don't like their character or its blown up to the point of being unsalvageable I don't really have a problem with making up something else which they'd rather play, that and a pretty eclectic group of regulars in a small group means we've got to be flexible in what people can do in-game.

Best idea really is to have a character pool, for a number of reasons that death is really easy to come by and so are injuries which will lay someone out for a fair bit of time. So get people to make up 2-3 characters, advance them along on the same XP and paychecks with the main group- but... They aren't really risking (being killed, Insanity and corruption points) much so they don't accumulate contacts, the extra cash, nice bits of rare equipment (and sometimes the favour of the Inquisitor). That is one good reason why you want to play a character 'most' of the time as they will have that extra edge which isn't really part of the cut-paste book rules.

Try to remember that RPG's aren't a case of 'winning' in so much of  the sense that a computer game is by wiping someone out, they're about fun and its important that the people and GM have fun.

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MKX said:

People over reacting a bit, if people really don't like their character or its blown up to the point of being unsalvageable I don't really have a problem with making up something else which they'd rather play, that and a pretty eclectic group of regulars in a small group means we've got to be flexible in what people can do in-game.

Best idea really is to have a character pool, for a number of reasons that death is really easy to come by and so are injuries which will lay someone out for a fair bit of time. So get people to make up 2-3 characters, advance them along on the same XP and paychecks with the main group- but... They aren't really risking (being killed, Insanity and corruption points) much so they don't accumulate contacts, the extra cash, nice bits of rare equipment (and sometimes the favour of the Inquisitor). That is one good reason why you want to play a character 'most' of the time as they will have that extra edge which isn't really part of the cut-paste book rules.

Try to remember that RPG's aren't a case of 'winning' in so much of  the sense that a computer game is by wiping someone out, they're about fun and its important that the people and GM have fun.

 

I suicided my character in a D&D game due to GM idiocy. I really enjoyed that character too. But he railroaded us into a dungeon that cumulated with an encounter that would have given level 17 characters a challenge (I know, I sat down afterwards when he called me full of it and calculated it out) and we were... level 5. And there was no way to escape.

Sometimes it takes a senseless act of futility to show a problem DM that he is, in fact, being a problem.

Hence my satire above.

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Let them re-roll characters at full XP, they shouldn't miss out. If they don't want to play those characters, forcing them to is the silliest thing I've ever heard of. Not even necessary to kill the old characters off. If you really are adamant (why?), see if they want to swap characters.

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As the GM in an online campaign, I had a long talk with my players, and that talk resulted in my character being killed. The truth was, I'd grown tired of the character, he was constantly arguing with the groups Psyker, he lacked any distinct...personality He seemed to be a hardass, jaded arse, but then he randomly made jokes and was likeable, then he was an arse etc etc. I just didn't like playing him, I and the players looked up a new alternate character, one that'd make logical sense to the story, and would add something to the group and we ended up with an Arbitrator. I'm enjoying this character far more now, he's come into the game with the same xp as the current characters, 3 months of rank 4 pay for an Arbitrator and an item of my choice from a forge world (within reason, I'm using  a .54 tranter).

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Graver said:

er... let them make new characters?

Why are you hesitant to do such? After all, if they are not enjoying their characters, then they aren't having a good time. The fact that they killed their characters off is rather evident of this. The First responsibility of a GM is to insure that all the players are having fun during the gaming session. When he or she discovers one or more aren't enjoying themselves, then he or she needs to find out what hey can do to remedy that situation.

This says everything I could have.

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1 out of 2 things(there is actually three):

1) Tell them that its one character per campaign. Have them play or have them die. But players with dead characters don't get to play, before the rest of you finished the campaign.

2) You accept there need to make new characters, now that they know more about the game you are running. Then you make a deal, that they will go out one by one... deaths, transfers, falling from grace(death), and then the Inquisitor wants a new guy on the team. Or you could restart the campaign entirely... all make new characters and you start a new plot. Just is nessecary once in a while!

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Well, if they want to create new characters - you must let let them (it's for fun after all), but don't give them any extra XP, over those 400 for starters.

In fact, it is fun to play the weak amongst the strong, sometimes.

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First, I'll say I agree with everyone else who said "if they didn't like their characters they should be allowed to make a new batch".  Me, I might have kept their old characters as npcs which could appear later and ask for aid, provide plot hooks, etc.  It is difficult when players want to change characters in the middle of a game; I know this one all too well.  (Had a game that ran months with a vast ammount of story material involving every character in the group and just before I introduced one characters huge story arch she decided she did not want to play that character any longer ... I tried to convince her with the revelation that something big was coming for her character, but she would not be disuaded ... a lot of work was lost there ... but I could hardly force her to continue playing a character she didn't like.)

All that said, I would not take well to players killing off their characters in order to force me into letting them play something different.  I think I would tell them not to come back for a few weeks until you got the rest of the party in a place from which you could introduce their new characters - and I would not relent when they attempted to write background material to work around that decision.  They need to know that - while everyone is an important part of the game - the GM's rulings are important and cannot simply be shat upon at their convenience.  When I did allow them to come back they would make begining characters - no xp awards beyond the starting ammounts, no special equipment to put them on par with the other characters.  They conciously decided to kill their originals, so now they have to live with the consequences.  (aside from those who things, however, I'd not punish them further unless they continued to scoph at your rulings ... in which case I'd kick them out of the game and tell them not to bother coming back - I've done that on a short term basis with players I've gamed with for a decade, so it can be done even if they are your friends.)

 

 

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Idless said:

1 out of 2 things(there is actually three):

1) Tell them that its one character per campaign. Have them play or have them die. But players with dead characters don't get to play, before the rest of you finished the campaign.

Dear god I was kidding when I made my post.

Don't do this. Seriously. Don't do this. If the party gets geeked and there's one person left who loves his character and doesn't want to give it up, are you going to do a 1-on-1 game for months until the story ends?

Doing this *will* bleed over into real life issues.

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I guess my mind on this matter is you should let them change characters.  However bring the character in with less experience and review their new character.   Feel free to veto any idea that doesn't mesh well with the current party.   ie "I want to make a Null so I can totally screw over the psyker"

Options for getting rid of the old character.  1 Reassignment always works and allows the player to have a 'active' back up character.   2 Character abandons duties and goes rogue, take the character sheet and use him later as a villian.  3 Have the character be suspected by his/her Inquisitor and execute them.

Bringing in the new character i would be sure that they have less equipment than the main party.  I'm a big fan of make them earn it rather than having a new character having the 'right' to pick their gear.

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 >> I'm a big fan of make them earn it rather than having a new character having the 'right' to pick their gear. <<

I have to agree whole heartedly here.  Players appreciate what they have far more if they've actually earned it.  I will say that I have - in the past - allowed a person to come into the game at the same level as their old character, assuming that character didn't die.  My reasoning is simple enough - they earned the xp once, why make them earn it twice?  This doesn't hold for dead characters, however, as having the make a begining character is part of that sense of consequence for getting their character killed.  (that sucks, of course, for those situations where it was merely poor luck rather than idiocy which got the character knocked off, but with Fate Points that sort of thing shouldn't happen too often.)


 

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So far two of our group's characters have nearly died. One of those was mine on my second session. Burning a fate point saved him from  Energy Induced Torso Explosion.

 

I am fully aware that my character has every chance of dying and that if he does then a new character will be created at base level. This makes my play all the more interesting. Knowing that my character is intentionally unkillable because otherwise I'd have-no-character-to-play-with-ever would be really dull.

 

Allow them to create new characters, with the understanding that they will be starting from scratch. Also encourage them to have their characters die in Death or Glory battle, preferrably where they are selflessly holding off a heretic horde while thier colleagues make their escape. Do not allow equipment to be looted by other members of the Cell or returned to the player via the new character.

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Not sure if you were referencing my post in that last comment, but if you were you misunderstood what I was saying.  I won't bother correcting your statement here, until I know if you were in fact addressing something I said.

I have, on numerous occasions, considered running a game in which the characters could not die.  Instead "death" would result in some extreme character altering event ... such as deformity, crippling, sickness, mental disease, etc.  Each near death event would alter the character more and more; while the players would have to rp the repercusions and the social/physical complications they imposed.

I thought it would be a fun expirament, to see just how transformed the characters became over the course of their careers and how that effected their characterization.  I simply haven't found a game the idea would fit well in.

 

 

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Having been GM'ing Dark Heresy for well over a year now, I have found that it is a bad idea to make players stick with stupid characters. That being said, it is not always reasonable to let them switch in the middle of a fight, or an undercover investigation or the like. The key to changing characters has nothing to do with penalties and killing them off. It should definitely be more about having fun, which made me think that when you do feel like changing things up, tell your GM first, and hopefully they will set it up so just such an opportunity (be it glorious death, daemonic pact gone wrong, or some sort of re-assignment) comes up. It is the stuff of legends -Incredibly Infamous Legends- when the GM or a PC tries to pull a once-over on the other, making unecessary drama.

So, uh, yeah. Just be vocal and such. It does not hurt you in the least to express your feelings and work with your players/GM to make everything fun.

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