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[SPOILERS]: Star Wars: Rebels - Thoughts?

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We have 30 years between the ROtJ and TFA which is leaves more of a chance of them doing something like Jumping the timeline of Rebels from before ANH to after ROtJ than cancelling it for the sole purpose of creating a new series. 

I don't even think it'd be necessary for them to avoid the classic OT period covered by the movies.  I mean...Lothal (and whatever sector it's in) seems pretty isolated from the rest of the galactic goings-on.  It'd be reasonable to set a "flash forward" series during, say, the period between ESB and RotJ, and show the adventures of some sort of rebel team as they track down the DS2 plans or some such thing.  I could easily see Sabine falling in with the Alliance Special Ops teams.

 

 

I honestly do have an expectation that they are considering this for Rebels in a later season. 

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I could even see them intersecting directly with events covered/characters featured/locations visited in the OT films. Commander Syndulla, now a Rebel tactician and highly valued senior officer, leading a group of rebels in their evacuation from Echo Base, or scouting locations for new bases...Zeb and Sabine leading a group of commandos...

 

Really the only issues I can forsee are rationalizing the force sensitives.  For Kanan, I really don't see him surviving the Rebels series.  Ashoka too, for that matter, unless they lead a bunch of Rebels to a hidden safeworld, perhaps establishing one themselves, as a colony for displaced victims of the Empire, and a safe haven for Jedi and near-Jedi looking for refuge from the Purge.  For Ezra...I'm not sure.  I can't really see Disney killing him off, but I similarly can't see where he'd fit in the story by the time of the OT.  It'd be a surprising demonstration of drama and tragic character development for them to decide that, while Force sensitive, Ezra simply didn't have what it takes (or Kanan and Ashoka weren't up to the task of training him) to be a full-fledged Jedi.  In the lack-of-training case, though, he may lie low, force-wise, until Luke puts out the call to establish a new jedi order (if he does).  Or, in a twist I *really* couldn't see Disney (or Lucasfilm) pulling..perhaps he falls to the dark side.

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Personally, I cannot see how Kanan, Ezra, or even a hidden Ahsoka can exist after (or even a few years before) "A New Hope."  I mean, no way Yoda and Obi-Wan's dialogue in "Empire Strikes Back" goes challenged ... by a kids' cartoon.

 

Honestly, all of the Force/saber-wielders is one of the most off-putting things in "Rebels."

 

I'm sure for those of you who grew up with the prequels and having lightsabers be the primary focus of nearly every Star Wars story (and video game) would disagree.  But for those of us who grew up with the OT?  And the Marvel comics?  And the Brian Daley Solo books?  And the Droids cartoon?

 

Basically having Vader, Luke, Obi-Wan, and Yoda be super-duper-extra-special?

 

Yeah, this whole "look at all of these Jedi running around!" - both in "Rebels" and F&D - is cringeworthy...

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Personally, I cannot see how Kanan, Ezra, or even a hidden Ahsoka can exist after (or even a few years before) "A New Hope."  I mean, no way Yoda and Obi-Wan's dialogue in "Empire Strikes Back" goes challenged ... by a kids' cartoon.

 

Honestly, all of the Force/saber-wielders is one of the most off-putting things in "Rebels."

I can't stand this logic. You are taking what is said by a character in-universe as complete and utter fact, rather than what they -believe- to be true. I mean canonically Yoda and Obi Wan were sitting on Dagobah and Tattoine respectively for 20 years (Barring new canon that I haven't read yet books/comics etc). What the hell do they know about the state of the Galaxy?

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Also, lets say that you are training your weapon to overthrow palpatine and his pet. Are you going to big up said weapon by going "You have to do this. But don't worry if you fail, we've got some more Jedi waiting in the wings to pick up your slack. No big deal." Hell no, you are going to tell him that all the chips are riding on this one roll of the dice, that it's him or nothing.

 

Yoda and Kenobi have a very long history of omitting and manipulating the truth when it suits their needs. Why are you expecting anything coming out of their mouths to be truthful?

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I find the style of the hilts of Asoka's lightsabers interesting. The slight curve seems like a nod to the Japanese Daisho (Katana and Wakizashi set), one larger and the other smaller (shoto) reinforces that image.

I think Ahsoka's whole image is designed to invoke a sort of samurai-feel.  Which fits as she is akin to ronin in the time frame of the show; she doesn't have a "master" per se, but still holds herself to the code and values instilled in her back when served.

 

Shimada Kambei. 

 

 

So, how did TCW do 1.5 years in?

 

Since I re-watch these occasionally...quite well.  I think it really takes off with Jedi Crash...that has to be the most action-packed edge-of-seat intro since Pitch Black.

 

The only thing that bothers me about the early TCW episodes is the lame banter between Obi-wan and Anakin, but they get rid of that; and the way mouths don't quite sync up with what's being said.

 

So I don't think "maturity" is going to change anything.  The same people are heading up the series after all, and they know what they are doing.  The Mouse cut their budget considerably...if there's anything that bothers me about Rebels it's that, and I'm sure it affects their storytelling ability.

 

I thought Season 1 Rebels was good, and built up to great at the end.  With Season 2 I've been underwhelmed, but not enough to stop.  I'm expecting the same kind of build up towards something epic, they do have a pretty good track record.

 

 

It took me the better part of three seasons to get into TCW. 

 

Disney is renowned for cancelling old series to be replaced by new series that more accurately reflect what's in their films.

 

Just ask fans of "Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes" and "Spectacular Spider-Man."

 

Pretty sure what I'd read made it clear Disney was moving on from "Rebels" after the release of "Force Awakens" and the initial spin-off film(s)...

I'm actually sort of surprised that Disney/LFL hasn't been pushing a show set between ROTJ and TFA. And I'd be surprised if they didn't eventually create a show set in that time period. 

 

Also, lets say that you are training your weapon to overthrow palpatine and his pet. Are you going to big up said weapon by going "You have to do this. But don't worry if you fail, we've got some more Jedi waiting in the wings to pick up your slack. No big deal." Hell no, you are going to tell him that all the chips are riding on this one roll of the dice, that it's him or nothing.

 

Yoda and Kenobi have a very long history of omitting and manipulating the truth when it suits their needs. Why are you expecting anything coming out of their mouths to be truthful?

Pretty much this. 

And as I've mentioned before, we have prophecy and mysticism at work. Just because there are Jedi doesn't mean that just any Jedi can defeat Darth Vader and Darth Sidious. Both Yoda and Kenobi tried their hands at it and failed - and they were far more powerful Jedi in Episode III than Luke was in VI. It's pretty clear that the Jedi who destroys the Sith must be a Skywalker, whether Luke or Leia. 

In fact, as I recall, the only character who says that the Jedi are all gone, and who is in a position to know - Tarkin - has also shown a willingness to state that the Jedi are long gone... while dealing with known Jedi. Other than that... we have Obi-Wan saying that the Jedi are all but extinct, and Yoda and Obi-Wan mysterious referencing another hope, another Skywalker. Nothing about there specifically being no more Jedi in the galaxy - and, indeed, if Obi-Wan had said that he was the last of the Jedi, we would know he's lying because we're introduced to another Jedi in The Empire Strikes Back.

Edited by Vigil

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Yeah, this whole "look at all of these Jedi running around!" - both in "Rebels" and F&D - is cringeworthy...

Not as cringeworthy as this narrow-minded attitude. Retconning is the norm these days. I can't believe someone that actually has been around long enought o have seen the original OT in its entirety in the theaters upon release is somehow unaware of this. Guess what? Star Wars became so popular that fans are always looking for more. So where the movies once said this, now the new continuity says that. Like it or not, which is completely up to you, it is not going to change. One of the reasons I so disliked so much of the EU was that it was so centered on the characters of the OT. With such a large galaxy I am so much happier to see them delving into other characters.

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I don't even think it'd be necessary for them to avoid the classic OT period covered by the movies.  I mean...Lothal (and whatever sector it's in) seems pretty isolated from the rest of the galactic goings-on.  It'd be reasonable to set a "flash forward" series during, say, the period between ESB and RotJ, and show the adventures of some sort of rebel team as they track down the DS2 plans or some such thing.  I could easily see Sabine falling in with the Alliance Special Ops teams.

 

 

I was wondering if the appearance of the A & B wings in Rebels might be an out that they are part of the rebellion in a sector away from the 'Leadership' around Organa (either) so they don't need to crossover with the movie rebels till Battle of Endor which was the first movie appearance of bringing every asset together on their own terms.

 

A better question is would it really rip a hole in continuity for young Luke to train a little with these force users when he has no teacher between ANH and ESB?

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Probably, because thus far not every bob and jessie have slipped through order 66, to our knowledge with the EU reset we only know of four Jedi that have definitely survived. Obi , Yoda for reasons, Kanan because he was able to slip away by his master being far more impotent then he was (at least thats what was indicated, apparently the clones left him to focus on the more important master) and Tano because she had left the order prior to order 66. Thus far it's kept a fairly tight grip on continuity.

 

As for Force and Destiny characters. So what? It doesn't have to be part of official canon nor does the canon necessarily have to be adhered to. It's a big galaxy, it's easy to have force traditions spread out all over the place otherwise they wouldn't have a need for inquisitors. Likewise if Jedi are non-existent beyond established canon, then one simply state that characters don't know of them, aside from myth's and legends of child snatchers that tried to rule the senate with Dark magic, and disallow the use of Jedi/all force religions. The rules are just there to act as a seasoning for the campaign if people want to make their own stories as members of a force tradition.

Edited by Lordbiscuit

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It took me the better part of three seasons to get into TCW.

 

Yeah, me too. I found the first season, especially the beginning, quite terrible. But for me, the show came into itself later on, starting in the second season. Of course, all this is personal opinion, but for both me and my wife, the first one and a half seasons of Rebels compare very favourably with the same of TCW, to say the least.

 

That said, the last episode was weak. I believe an opportunity for character growth and more background has been missed, although we see the Jedi training paying off - interestingly, also for Kanan, who becomes more of a Jedi by trying to be an example for Ezra.

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Yeah, this whole "look at all of these Jedi running around!" - both in "Rebels" and F&D - is cringeworthy...

Not as cringeworthy as this narrow-minded attitude. Retconning is the norm these days. I can't believe someone that actually has been around long enought o have seen the original OT in its entirety in the theaters upon release is somehow unaware of this. Guess what? Star Wars became so popular that fans are always looking for more. So where the movies once said this, now the new continuity says that. Like it or not, which is completely up to you, it is not going to change. One of the reasons I so disliked so much of the EU was that it was so centered on the characters of the OT. With such a large galaxy I am so much happier to see them delving into other characters.

 

...Also not as cringeworthy as your attitude on the subject, where there's pretty much nothing at all set in stone and nothing you see in any source is at all a valid clue about the galaxy at large.

 

I mean, how do we know that Palpatine didn't clone Vader and have several dozen as his top lieutenants, and we just only happen to see one at any given time?  Perhaps Jedi are actually everywhere, there's just not too many on Tattooine because it's so remote?  Maybe Palpatine was secretly a good guy all along, just assuming control of the galaxy to keep Vader from consolidating his power and ushering in an even worse reign of terror?  Maybe Han Solo is secretly a Jedi too, he's just on deep cover.  Perhaps Echo Base was just in a polar region and the rest of the planet is a tropical paradise that just happens to be covered with blue-white clouds, so it looks like a snowball from space.  Maybe they just played a video on the viewscreen of the Death Star to scare Leia and Alderaan wasn't really destroyed (the Falcon clearly had a navigational error and was forced out of hyperspace by a meteor field, had Han had the time to check his navcomputer, he'd have seen that Alderaan was still a short jump away.  Maybe Zam Wessel was secretly a direct operative of Palpatine's and it was her that tracked the Jedi in TPM, posing as their ship crew, then as a nemoidian on the battle ship, then as Jar Jar Binks, after killing him in the swamp, to gain their trust and eventually manipulate events to install Palpatine as Chancellor...no idea is too crazy, or can be proven wrong, since you can't use any book or movie evidence, since it's all of a limited perspective and liable to be flawed.

 

Basically, when you start going down the rabbit hole of not being able to trust anything you see in the movies or read in the books, the entire setting loses any shred of meaning or relevance, because there's no credible storyteller for the audience to interface with.  If you're going to adopt the position of not trusting anything seen or said, by definition, you can't really have any general concept about anything in the galaxy or how it works at all, because hey, all of your references might be mistaken or lying.

 

Star Wars has never been a "trust no one" sort of setting, so while the truth of the matter lies somewhere between your extreme and the inflexible "this character made a passing reference to this, so it must be true"...based on everything we've seen to this point, it lies much, much closer toward that end of the spectrum than your position, with brief lines and scenes generally giving us a pretty reliable insight into various subjects.

 

Ultimately, I too find the reliance on creating another super rare Jedi every time they need a story to be almost as weak a storytelling trope as the Vong.  Not totally ruining the original story, but certainly cheapening it.  I wouldn't go as far as calling it 'cringeworthy', but certainly eye-roll worthy that if anything heroic needs to happen in the galaxy, writers seem to rely on the "oh, here's another Jedi" exception far too often.  What I do find 'cringeworthy' though, is the apparent need to lob out passive-aggressive insults at someone with a different opinion.  So Harlock doesn't like the watering down of impact that the Purge has undergone over the years, from the tight, simple plot element that added gravity to the OT to what it is now, basically a historical event that was maybe 60% effective.  If you like that direction, that's fine. Nobody told you that they couldn't believe you were stupid enough to think a certain way, or patronize you with some line about how "only someone who knew nothing about Star Wars before the prequels were released would think that way" so I don't see why you're feeling the need to be so flippant about what's ultimately just a difference of opinion.

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...Also not as cringeworthy as your attitude on the subject, where there's pretty much nothing at all set in stone and nothing you see in any source is at all a valid clue about the galaxy at large.

 

 

Nothing is set in stone. Popular things will change the rules as it suits them in order to garner more or new interest. Especially things like comics or the evergreen product that is Star Wars. That's not to say that it is always done well, but it will continue to happen. Bucky Barnes, Jason Todd, Sentry, Supergirl, Kanan, Boba Fett. Much as I enjoy the original characters I dislike the special snowflake status that some ascribe them due to taking a script so literally.

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Much as I enjoy the original characters I dislike the special snowflake status that some ascribe them due to taking a script so literally.

While that's okay, that's a preference, just like someone else might prefer the more traditional story.  Doesn't mean you can/should be a jerk to someone who doesn't share your personal preferences, that's all.

 

Personally, that same pliability of lore is why I've never gotten into comics, and actually kind of dislike them as a whole.  Though I've been a huge fan of Star Wars for decades, if they start to treat it like a malleable comic, that might be enough to totally kill that enthusiasm on my end, as to me, it'd take it from a deep story in a detailed setting to a cheap/disposable franchise, to be twisted, altered, and rearranged for whatever story they came up with to slap a SW label on it and make a quick buck.  

 

That said, I wouldn't be a jerk about it to someone who wanted nothing more than to see the whole thing turn into nothing more than a movie series with cartoons and comic book tie ins.

Edited by hydrospanner

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It doesn't bother me that Ezra is Force-sensitive. What does bother me is that he seems to be taking to his training much faster than Luke ever did. Some of what Ezra pulls in the more recent episodes seems on the level of the typical Clone Wars Jedi.

 

The time dilation in the OT is hard to pin down though.  Luke had, maybe, a few hours training with Obi-wan on the way to Alderaan.  After that, nothing direct (that we know of) for years.  He pulls the lightsaber out of the snow as if it's a last resort and he's not sure it will work.

 

After that...how long is he in that swamp with Yoda?  Hours, days, weeks?  Only long enough for Han and Leia to evade capture, fix the ship (they were in a worm gullet for ... ? ) and make it to Bespin.  The Millennium Falcon arc appears to take no more than a couple days max, and arguably shouldn't take longer than a week.  The Dagobah arc/montage could easily be weeks or months, but it's hard to merge that with the other.

 

So you could argue that Ezra has already had a lot more direct, hands on training, plus he's younger and more trainable.  Unlike the OT, Rebels actually gives us a vague timeframe, from when Ezra gets his crystal, to when he actually completes his lightsaber...Kanan notes he's been working on it "for a few weeks".  Presumably there has been more training in between his getting the crystal and constructing the saber, and that's arguably more time right there than E4 and E5 together.

Edited by whafrog

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Also we get the comment by the spirit of Yoda during the S1 episode where Ezra gets his crystal that Yoda can now see Kanan in the Force, where before he couldn't. Kanan never claims to be a Jedi Knight, and he was never Knighted. Ezra also seems constantly unsure of how much of a Jedi he wants to be.

 

So when Obi-Wan says "the Jedi Knights are all but extinct" he's right--there's no one out there except Luke claiming the mantle of Jedi Knight.

 

Maybe there are a bunch of Jedi survivors, but if they're hidden themselves away like Kanan did, they could be "off the grid" to isolated Force-users like Yoda or Obi-Wan.

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I'd have been much happier if both Kanan and (especially) Ezra were considerably more limited in their Force capabilities. I wanted to see something more like the F-SEx or F-SEm than a full-on Jedi, but it's a kids show so the heroes have to be way over the top.

 

This. For a padawan who has not spend a lot of time with his master and stop using the Force after that until the beginning of the series, Kanan begin to look too much powerful and I am not even talking about Ezra.

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I really am enjoying Rebels though I am only at the end of season 1. I'd enjoy it more if they were made for a mature audience instead of kids though. As something made for children it's going to have cliched use of tropes and annoying kid protagonists for them to identify with. I was pleasantly surprised that there was more than one female crew member, it at least seems to be doing a bit better with representation of women than some cartoons.

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Personally, the reason why the likes of Kanan and Ezra develop so quickly is that one of them actually has experience in the force and being a Jedi, he was raised from an extremely young age into a religious tradition  and thus has some sort of basis to reform his ideas around.  Luke meanwhile only had access to a mentor for a few hours and never really touched the lightsaber again until the Wompa incident, thus by the time he meets Yoda he is still extremely inexperienced. The two couldn't have come from vastly different backgrounds. Ezar was in the same boat, but unlike Luke his master remained around much longer and was strict enough to enforce discipline in his pupil. It's also suggested that by the time Ezra picks up a lightsaber, he's probably spent at least many months in his masters company; experience Luke never had.

 

Hence for Kanan it's akin to beginning to exercise after being out of training for 10 years, sure it was difficult on him but after encountering death several times he was forced to develop his capabilities. Hence I think people are being rather unfair when "oh they are developing way too quickly they should slow down." when we see it all the time in movies where a character finds strength in a place he or she never expected to find it. 

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Personally, I cannot see how Kanan, Ezra, or even a hidden Ahsoka can exist after (or even a few years before) "A New Hope."  I mean, no way Yoda and Obi-Wan's dialogue in "Empire Strikes Back" goes challenged ... by a kids' cartoon.

 

Let's be honest. Lucas decided that everything Yoda and Kenobi told Luke was garbage as far back as RotJ, not to mention the prequels. Rebels is just following that fine example.

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Let's face it, the proliferation of Jedi-in-Exile is not a new thing. As far back as Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy, we've been finding surviving Jedi Masters in exile. Sure, sometimes they're crazy. Sometimes they've fallen to the dark side. Sometimes they've just had their spirit broken by the fall of the Order and have hung up their spurs.

 

Besides, everything Obi-Wan and Yoda said about the last of the Jedi was true... from a certain point of view. Y'know, like how Anakin Skywalker is dead, and how Luke was their last hope.

 

The simple fact is that Luke was the only Jedi who could possibly take down Vader, with the possible exception of Leia. And it's not just a matter of training, or strength in the force, or skill with a lightsaber. It's about destiny. The Force seems to have decided that this whole era would be Skywalker business. A Skywalker would destroy the Jedi, and a Skywalker would save the Jedi. Not all the old masters were dead, but none of them could take Vader. It just wasn't in the stars.

 

That's my rationalization anyway. I like my force users rare. I don't want every Star Wars story to be about Jedi and the Force. But I don't mind having them scattered around, trying to make their way in the universe. There's a place for Force sensitives, and retired Jedi, and disillusioned masterless Padawans even in the era of the Original Trilogy. That place simply isn't at the forefront of the Galactic civil war. Or if it is, it's not as out in the open Jedi.

 

Because if they're out in the open, Vader will find you. And he will kill you.

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I'm imagining that somewhere at the far edge of the Outer Rim there is a Jedi - maybe many - maybe some of them have married other Jedi, who have decided to just get out of the way of the history and the Empire and settled down to become farmers or ranchers. Maybe they're helping to make a desert bloom or keeping super-predators at bay. When the time comes, they help their fellow colonists drive off bandits and pirates. And maybe, just maybe, some of them are having kids and they're teaching their kids the things they were taught as children about the Force and the Jedi, the Dark Side and the Light....

 

Dozens of disparate tiny, agrarian sects of Jedi. And their children coming of age and perhaps having children of their own in the decades between the end of the Clone Wars and the beginning of the war between the Republic and the First Order. 

Edited by Vigil

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I'm imagining that somewhere at the far edge of the Outer Rim there is a Jedi - maybe many - maybe some of them have married other Jedi, who have decided to just get out of the way of the history and the Empire and settled down to become farmers or ranchers. Maybe they're helping to make a desert bloom or keeping super-predators at bay. When the time comes, they help their fellow colonists drive off bandits and pirates. And maybe, just maybe, some of them are having kids and they're teaching their kids the things they were taught as children about the Force and the Jedi, the Dark Side and the Light....

 

Dozens of disparate tiny, agrarian sects of Jedi. And their children coming of age and perhaps having children of their own in the decades between the end of the Clone Wars and the beginning of the war between the Republic and the First Order. 

 

Oh man.... That's a helluva hook. An F&D game could have the party guided to a small village, where they discover a pair of retired Jedi, with kids. There's a whole plot arc's worth of material. Convincing them to teach the party in the ways of the Force, a couple of adventures that explore this training. And then, BAM.  Drop an inquisitor on them. Nothing quite says, "Dark side" like murdering an entire family.

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