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Jaradakar

Improved Reflect

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Is it just me, or is it a little weird that this skill is only available in a single tree (Shien Expert)?

Personally I wish it was in at least 1 other tree to provide greater options for players.

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Is it just me, or is it a little weird that this skill is only available in a single tree (Shien Expert)? Personally I wish it was in at least 1 other tree to provide greater options for players.

It's not just you.

 

I've got a thread going in the Game Mechanics thread with some suggestions to reshuffle a couple of the LS Form specs (notably Soresu Defender and Ataru Striker) to let them pick up Improved Reflect, mostly by sacrificing a rank of Parry.  Which coincidentally puts both specs at having the same number of instances of Parry and Reflect available to them (3 of each for Soresu, 2 of each for Ataru).  The suggestion of adding Improved Reflect to those specs seemed quite popular with a number of folks.

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This in my mind is such a common ability I associate with Jedi, that locking it away in a single style means any Jedi I've ever see do it had trained at least that much in that spec...

 

Seems unlikely.   Also Force/Jedi is already a pretty huge EXP whole, does it really need to be even more so?

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You only need Shien to reflect bolts at named nemisises.

 

Everyone else, Threat=Strain, which becomes Wounds because they dont have a strain track. Pump up your Range defence and watch them fall.

And as was mentioned in another thread, it's up to the GM to determine where Threat get spent, as per the combat chapter under Step 5: Resolving Threat and Despair, and most GMs tend to spend anything more than 1 strain on applying setback dice or other effects rather than wound damage to Rivals and Minions, especiall for Minions since they have so few wounds individually to start with, and in many cases for the GM it can feel very "off" to have a minion suddenly collapse just because of a less-than-stellar attack roll, whether the PC has the Parry/Reflect talent or not.

 

Improved Reflect and Improved Parry are an exception (at least under the Beta Updates) in that the player gets to spend the Threat/Despair generated for that specific effect.

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And as was mentioned in another thread, it's up to the GM to determine where Threat get spent, as per the combat chapter under Step 5: Resolving Threat and Despair, and most GMs tend to spend anything more than 1 strain on applying setback dice or other effects rather than wound damage to Rivals and Minions, especiall for Minions since they have so few wounds individually to start with, and in many cases for the GM it can feel very "off" to have a minion suddenly collapse just because of a less-than-stellar attack roll, whether the PC has the Parry/Reflect talent or not.

 

Improved Reflect and Improved Parry are an exception (at least under the Beta Updates) in that the player gets to spend the Threat/Despair generated for that specific effect.

Except in this case the NPC has rolled, and as mentioned on the same page your referencing above, the GM can allow the players to determine the effects of threat and despair (which I think most GMs do). So it doesn't seem like Improved Reflect does much against minions. Otherwise, I do think it should be added to other specs.

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And as was mentioned in another thread, it's up to the GM to determine where Threat get spent, as per the combat chapter under Step 5: Resolving Threat and Despair, and most GMs tend to spend anything more than 1 strain on applying setback dice or other effects rather than wound damage to Rivals and Minions, especiall for Minions since they have so few wounds individually to start with, and in many cases for the GM it can feel very "off" to have a minion suddenly collapse just because of a less-than-stellar attack roll, whether the PC has the Parry/Reflect talent or not.

 

Improved Reflect and Improved Parry are an exception (at least under the Beta Updates) in that the player gets to spend the Threat/Despair generated for that specific effect.

Except in this case the NPC has rolled, and as mentioned on the same page your referencing above, the GM can allow the players to determine the effects of threat and despair (which I think most GMs do). So it doesn't seem like Improved Reflect does much against minions. Otherwise, I do think it should be added to other specs.

 

May just be different GMs, but most of the ones I've played under either take suggestions, many of which are discarded for being perceived as "too good" for just a couple Threat, or simply don't take much if any player input at all on Threat and Despair results and so already know how they're going to spend that Threat before they even announce the result to the group.  Some may be a little more open-minded and accept a player suggestion, such as running out of ammo or dropping their weapon for a Despair instead of the bad guy simply upgrading the difficulty of his next check, though I've seen GMs shoot that down in favor of their initial choice of how to spend a Despair or even generated Threat.  Some GMs might be fine with a point or two of strain inflicted on Rivals and Minions, but I've yet to encounter one (including several members of the FFG design team) that were cool with spending several Threat to inflict that much strain, even with a PC that had used Reflect against a minion group.  The PC is already getting a decent benefit from Reflect (and Parry) by reducing the damage before it applies to their Soak Value, and even with one rank in each, for many LS Form characters that effectively doubles their Soak Value against an attack (Brawn 2 + soak 1 armor such as heavy clothing or concealing robes), so being able to immediately take out minions via Threat begins to push those talents into the "are these too good?" territory.

 

And so that there's no mistakes on what the books say, the full text of the relevant sentence is "By default, the GM determines how Threat and Despair are spent, although in some cases (such as checks made by NPCs) he may give the player the option to spend these instead."

 

Now, the fact that there's two specific talents that are all about turning an attack back unto the attacker also makes me leery about simply allowing a PC to spend several Threat to inflict what amounts to wound damage.  As the old adage goes, "if there's an existing rule that already covers what you're looking to do, that's the rule you use."  This rule system does allow a degree of flexibility (assisted by the fact that most of the talents aren't very specific in their effects, unlike many of D&D 4e's powers), but there's a balance point between "flexible" and "why bother with having rules in the first place?"

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