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Chrysalis2

SQoD - Converting 1e characters to 2e

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Hi,

 

Quick question are there good instructions for converting 1e characters to 2e. We are about to fast fowward my current campaign to Ascension level with PCs being Inquisitors in the Calixis Sector. 

 

Any thoughts on the matter or shall I have to wait a few years for that supplement?

 

Regards, 

 

-Chrystal

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Nope. Just keep the same experience value and convert the character concept, I was hoping for conversion as well.

 

Seems the rules for generation, talents, and skill are just very very different. I can understand that as the apptitude system in itself isn't even three games near DH1 if I remember.

 

I doubt there will be a supplement. The rules overall are smoother, I'd suggest remaking the characters and continuing in the Calaxis.

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I agree with ThenDoctor, direct conversion is not really possible.

 

I am facing the same problem in my campaign, and we have agreed to remake the characters, where the players get to choose their aptitudes freely (4 char, 3 prof, not both finesse and offense), and they have to preserve the "style" of their character.

 

We done a few tests and does look like xp have greater buying power in DH1, so we may have to increase their xp, the jury is still out on that.

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Just take all of the advances you need to have roughly the same characteristics, skills, and talents as your DH1 character and then use that XP total. After the whole group has done that, maybe average them out or something.

 

I'm not sure I would advise this, though. Right now there's only the core book which doesn't have all that much for high-level play. You might find yourself in the situation where you're getting XP after sessions and have nothing to spend it on.

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@Chrysalis

I second everyone else's statement. You'll find a lot of missing talents and skills in this version. Best practice would be to just give everyone equivalents. Don't worry about trying to match up xp values or anything, as it's not really going to affect the game too much. Also, as CPS said, you're not going to find much high level content for a while. Have you ever played ascension level characters? The rules for them are a bit of a mess, to be honest. If you really want high level stuff, I'd recommend you give someone in your group the inquisitor advance and then make up a cool advance tree for everyone else similar to what inquisitors have. For high level content, does anyone know if some Only War books have things for that?

@everyone else

I think I remember saying how everyone was glad that the system was staying with only war because of how muh easier it would be to convert old material. Anyone else remember that? Anyone?

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@everyone else

I think I remember saying how everyone was glad that the system was staying with only war because of how muh easier it would be to convert old material. Anyone else remember that? Anyone?

 

It is easy to convert material, from BC and OW which was the goal of 2nd edition because they're all similar systems. DH1 is just not compatible at this point, which is why it got a 2nd edition in the first place.

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@everyone else

I think I remember saying how everyone was glad that the system was staying with only war because of how muh easier it would be to convert old material. Anyone else remember that? Anyone?

 

It is easy to convert material, from BC and OW which was the goal of 2nd edition because they're all similar systems. DH1 is just not compatible at this point, which is why it got a 2nd edition in the first place.

That wasn't the song I was hearing. People were specifically talking about all of the dark heresy books they have and wanted I be able to convert. I just like pointing out the irony that the new edition is no less difficult to convert for than the first beta.

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What you heard is not necessarily equivalent to what was intended. And people have been having issues converting DH1 to OW for some time.

 

Personally I only ever heard bemoaning over OW and BC because they wanted similar systems since many felt that they worked well.

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What you heard is not necessarily equivalent to what was intended. And people have been having issues converting DH1 to OW for some time.

 

Personally I only ever heard bemoaning over OW and BC because they wanted similar systems since many felt that they worked well.

Plenty of people in the beta forum wanted to convert, specifically, their old dark heresy books. This complaining was made in conjunction with people saying they wanted only war style rules. This complaining is presumably part of why we ended up getting a rehash of only war rules. This complaining ironically did not get what it actually wanted.

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What you heard is not necessarily equivalent to what was intended. And people have been having issues converting DH1 to OW for some time.

 

Personally I only ever heard bemoaning over OW and BC because they wanted similar systems since many felt that they worked well.

Plenty of people in the beta forum wanted to convert, specifically, their old dark heresy books. This complaining was made in conjunction with people saying they wanted only war style rules. This complaining is presumably part of why we ended up getting a rehash of only war rules. This complaining ironically did not get what it actually wanted.

 

 

The incompatibility we are addressing here is the character progression system. But DH1 was not even compatible with Rogue Trader.

 

When it comes to the power of items and stats all games are pretty much compatible. So you can easily take an item or NPC from any system and toss them into another.

 

The first beta version made a large chunk of items and NPCs from all previous games incompatible, because of redesign of toughness and wounds and redesign of weapons and armours (the agility cap is actually one of the things that survived). While I am all for making a new system, I gotta admit that as it is now it is conveniently easy to use my DH1 source books and Rogue Trader source books with the DH2 game system.

Edited by Alox

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My group just converted their characters.

They got equivalent talents where possible (e.g. Adamantium Faith instead of Fearless) and kept talents that looked OK (not overpowered) and fitted into the current mechanics (e.g. Rapid Reaction, Lightning Refelxes and even Dual Shot/Strike). We got rid of Skills and/or merged them according to the 2e rules (e.g. Climb and Swim became Athletics; Drive became Operate etc.)

The conversion of the groups Psyker was a little more difficult, but we simply chose equivalent powers and everything above within the respective psyker tree and we got rid of all Minor Powers. A problem remained as the Psyker was mainly a Telepath, but was far from the needed Fel for a couple of Powers in 2e.

We none the less looked how the character would be made nowadays. What Apitudes they would have, so that the players can also buy any of the new talents and know the "price". That was easy in some cases (e.g. Hive Worlder - Outcast - Assassin or Feral Worlder - Imperial Guard - Warrior), but more difficult for our Arbitrator (Imperial World became Shrine World for him and as profession we chose Assassin in the end) and Tech-Priest (we chose Chirurgeon as profession in the end).

Weapons and most equipment are compatible with the 2e mechanics most of the time.

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Well, I would say it worked OK. It sort of worked better than converting WFRP 1ed. to WFRP 2 ed. (which we did like 10 or 15 years ago). At the beginning I thought about getting rid of all talents (and skills) that were not part of 2 ed. But then I realized how much character some talents gave to the PC and how much history and great story were linked to some talents (e.g. the Arbitrator's "Last Killer Standing", the Guardsman's Dual Strike against a Slaught Destructor etc.). Then I realized that most of them were not in any way overpowered or would not be a problem with the new mechanics.

 

As said, the equipment and weapon stuff (mostly from IH) were not a problem at all.

Edited by Luthor Harkon

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I recently remade a low-powered 1st edition character with 1,500 XP. As far as the final characteristics were concerned, the resulting successor roughly resembled its respective counterpart. Skills, talents and traits looked considerably different, though. I effectively re-created the 2nd edition character with the previously taken advances in mind, and tried to pick equivalents that provided similar mechanics. The combination of the previous origin and character package had to be reworked into respective home world/background/role-equivalents.

Although the number of skills in 2nd edition has been reduced, which seems to lead to a lesser amount of XP being spent on skill advances at first glance, I expect long-term character advances in 2nd edition to be more expensive, even with one’s aptitudes being chosen carefully. The advancement schemes of most careers in 1st edition offered a large amount of 100 XP core skills and talents. The 200 XP variants usually signified considerable power, and 300 XP equivalents usually yielded outstanding power. In 2nd edition, on the other hand, 200 XP represents the entry fee for the average one-aptitude skill. Subsequent skill advances and high-tier talents have increasing costs, respectively, that should be taken into account.

Whereas each 1st edition career had three assigned characteristics that could be bought fairly cheaply, not all equivalent character concepts will benefit from three discounted characteristics in 2nd edition. Discounted WP, for one, will effectively be barred from anyone without the Psyker aptitude, so equivalents of Adepts, Clerics and Tech-Priests will pay considerably more for their WP advances in 2nd edition, especially in the higher range.

However, this is just a quantitative valuation, and higher expenses might be accounted for by the higher XP earnings. The aptitude system of 2nd edition certainly allows for a much larger variety of nuances compared to the 1st edition advancement schemes that relied on career changes and elite advances for personal fine-tuning. All things considered, I don’t see how the conversion process in its entirety could be nailed down canonically, let alone automated or formalised.
 

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My group just converted their characters.

They got equivalent talents where possible (e.g. Adamantium Faith instead of Fearless) and kept talents that looked OK (not overpowered) and fitted into the current mechanics (e.g. Rapid Reaction, Lightning Refelxes and even Dual Shot/Strike). We got rid of Skills and/or merged them according to the 2e rules (e.g. Climb and Swim became Athletics; Drive became Operate etc.)

The conversion of the groups Psyker was a little more difficult, but we simply chose equivalent powers and everything above within the respective psyker tree and we got rid of all Minor Powers. A problem remained as the Psyker was mainly a Telepath, but was far from the needed Fel for a couple of Powers in 2e.

We none the less looked how the character would be made nowadays. What Apitudes they would have, so that the players can also buy any of the new talents and know the "price". That was easy in some cases (e.g. Hive Worlder - Outcast - Assassin or Feral Worlder - Imperial Guard - Warrior), but more difficult for our Arbitrator (Imperial World became Shrine World for him and as profession we chose Assassin in the end) and Tech-Priest (we chose Chirurgeon as profession in the end).

Weapons and most equipment are compatible with the 2e mechanics most of the time.

For more direct conversion from 1E Arbitrator to 2E try; Background: Adeptus Arbites, Role: Seeker. That will give you the sidearm wielding "Judge dread" type that was the original Arbitrator. They will also excel in investigative skills (never a bad thing in DH!)

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For more direct conversion from 1E Arbitrator to 2E try; Background: Adeptus Arbites, Role: Seeker. That will give you the sidearm wielding "Judge dread" type that was the original Arbitrator. They will also excel in investigative skills (never a bad thing in DH!)

 

 

The seeker is a non-combat role. From arbitrator background you can select offense giving some melee capabilities, but you are not going to get any ballistic skill or finesse. For getting that DH1 arbitrator feel I would change the seekers tech aptitude with finesse aptitude. Arbitrators are not tech experts anyway.

Edited by Alox

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The seeker is a non-combat role. From arbitrator background you can select offense giving some melee capabilities, but you are not going to get any ballistic skill or finesse. For getting that DH1 arbitrator feel I would change the seekers tech aptitude with finesse aptitude. Arbitrators are not tech experts anyway.

 

Certain members of them are. They have maintenance crew and forensic teams for a reason. Someone has to handle the cyber mastiffs.

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For more direct conversion from 1E Arbitrator to 2E try; Background: Adeptus Arbites, Role: Seeker. That will give you the sidearm wielding "Judge dread" type that was the original Arbitrator. They will also excel in investigative skills (never a bad thing in DH!)

 

At first we really thought Seeker would be fitting, especially because the Arbitrator in question had the "Warden of the Divisio Immoralis" alternate rank and chose the Arbitrator path along Intelligencer, Magistrate and not the on first sight more martially minded Proctor etc.

But on closer look Seeker is too non-martial minded for this character (and Judge Dredd in my view). At second view we thought about Desperado, because the Arbitrator character mainly wields pistols and a few melee weapons; furthermore the Desperado also has some social and Fel stuff. But then the Arbitrator character is really not the Agility and Finesse type, so Desperado was not an option either. In the end we indeed chose Assassin (he has the Mortiurge alternate rank as well) even though it somehow is awkward, as he is far from subtile.

In fact he really is like the Judge Dredd stereotype and it not worked with Seeker or Desperado for us (i.e. highly martial (medium and close range), highly perceptive (e.g. scrutiny, awareness), really tough (body and mind).

 

The Tech-Priest in question was the other problem, because he was far from the Sage type (i.e. Knowledge guy). HE was more the stereotypical Tech-Priest in the sense of being an Artisan and technician. He had great Tech-Use (of course), Trade (Technomat, Armourer and Wright), high score in Demolition as well as medicae. So for the more practical minded Tech-Priest 2e is difficult while the more sagely or more spiritual Tech-Priest is easy to make.

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I think the Arbitrator "suffered" the most with the update/conversion.  In DH1 they were Seekers and Warriors rolled into one with low costing Sound Constitution and access to both Seeker talents and Warrior talents at a fair cost.  Now it is much more difficult to be both without "over" spending on XP.

 

I had to sacrifice a lot of martial talents in order to stay with the Seeker type investigative talents.  Will have to rely more on the rest of the party to survive combat.

 

~ alemander

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In fact he really is like the Judge Dredd stereotype and it not worked with Seeker or Desperado for us (i.e. highly martial (medium and close range), highly perceptive (e.g. scrutiny, awareness), really tough (body and mind).

 

Oh my god, this almost sounds like the Chirurgeon... Now, that would be really weird  :) !

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