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The future of Descent or is Descent going into 3e?

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There will always be "bugs" in games, but in our circle we just put workarounds in to get around them.  The great thing about boardgames is that ultimately the players control the experience, so if you dislike the line of sight rules or find an ability over powered you can just house rule over them.  It's crazy to keep playing with rules all the players don't like or are overpowered for a particular player and reduce the fun of the game just because they are RAW.

 

I agree with this concept in general.  I must admit that to date, we have not house-ruled anything.  Quite frankly, we have been concerned that to do so would create its own situations now, or down the road.  Basically, this comes from a ton of experience playing FFG's games.

 

We are afraid that if we do house rule something, and then a new expansion or whatever is released, those very house rules will end up in conflict with new rules, abilities, etc.  For that reason, we have continued to play by all of the RAW and the FAQ.

 

I am fortunate that I, for the most part, play with a reasonable group of people that can have a sensible debate about something, make a decision, and move on.

 

Having said all of the above, I really do like some of the house rules that Steve-O created and discussed in another thread.  We have considered implementing some, if not all of them, as they do make a significant amount of sense, and currently do lessen the amount of grief with certain aspects of the game.

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Co-op Descent is (and should be) the future :)

 

I hope not, it gets dull real quick. The great thing about Descent is the strategic depth by having a living, intelligent opponent who reacts to your groups choices and actively pursues your weaknesses. It forces you to adapt and make good decisions to avoid being punished, while also still working towards your goal quickly enough. You need to make guesses as to what overlord cards are available and what's likely to happen, and guess the overlord's strategy for the map.

The co-op modules require far less thought and have less variety to an insane degree. No overlord cards, no monster group variation, no next-quest decision swaps from last campaign, no plot decks.

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There will always be "bugs" in games, but in our circle we just put workarounds in to get around them.  The great thing about boardgames is that ultimately the players control the experience, so if you dislike the line of sight rules or find an ability over powered you can just house rule over them.  It's crazy to keep playing with rules all the players don't like or are overpowered for a particular player and reduce the fun of the game just because they are RAW.

 

I agree with this concept in general.  I must admit that to date, we have not house-ruled anything.  Quite frankly, we have been concerned that to do so would create its own situations now, or down the road.  Basically, this comes from a ton of experience playing FFG's games.

 

We are afraid that if we do house rule something, and then a new expansion or whatever is released, those very house rules will end up in conflict with new rules, abilities, etc.  For that reason, we have continued to play by all of the RAW and the FAQ.

 

I am fortunate that I, for the most part, play with a reasonable group of people that can have a sensible debate about something, make a decision, and move on.

 

Having said all of the above, I really do like some of the house rules that Steve-O created and discussed in another thread.  We have considered implementing some, if not all of them, as they do make a significant amount of sense, and currently do lessen the amount of grief with certain aspects of the game.

 

 

We only play one house rule and that is that if a hero is knocked up they cannot stand up unless a stand up or revive action is used.  It balances things out a lot (puts the attack into the game a little more), but is a small tweak.  You have to be careful not to go overboard with any rules.

 

Our group is pretty keen on not getting bogged down in debates and we are generally on the same page with decisions similar to yours and play for fun respecting what the game is and what it is not. 

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The co-op modules require far less thought and have less variety to an insane degree. No overlord cards, no monster group variation, no next-quest decision swaps from last campaign, no plot decks.

 

 

For me, the Overlord deck-building and strategy is major reason for playing.  I really enjoy the multiple styles of play the Overlord can generate with monster choices and Overlord Cards (will I be a brutish OL and go with Warlord or will a play a fast moving 'race' style game and go Saboteur for example).  Plot cards just add a new dimension on top as well.

 

In saying that, campaigns can be long and gruelling at times and is good fun to sit down and play something light.  I play Forgotten Souls with all my kids as we are all on the same team my six year old doesn't need to know all the concepts she can take advice, roll the dice and feel included. It would be nice if they had a time tracker where Overlord cards could take effect, but it still wouldn't be close to the same experience as the core rules.

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I definitely don't get what people who think "co-op is the future" see in this game. I'm not anti-co-op; heck, I posted an entire Forgotten Souls game log because I thought it was interesting enough. But co-op is really, REALLY easy, and I would never have gotten involved in the game if it wasn't for the appeal of a live, thinking antagonist, playing an asymmetrical game. What about co-op do you find so appealing?

 

As for bugs - yes, the bugs may be house-ruleable, but "you can fix it yourself" isn't exactly a selling point for a game. FFG in general focuses on quality of the physical pieces, not quality of the game itself, but even for FFG, Descent is one of the worst-produced rules sets I have ever seen. If there's a continuum - with Magic, and its meticulous rules, anal-retentive templating and obsessive use of keywords - at one end, Descent may not be at the VERY opposite end, but it's part of a cluster all the way at the bottom.

 

Selling me a broken chair and telling me I can fix it myself - or even sending me occasional patches... for... the chair... or maybe my metaphor which has ALSO just broken apart - isn't a viable way to do things. And things are getting worse, not better - SoN, the last expansion I bought, had some of the worst mistakes in Descent's history.

 

FFG needs to hire someone who actually understands templating and keywords, fix the broken rules, publish a fixed rulebook (with updated printable cards) and make sure things stay consistent going forward. It wouldn't be hard at all, but they would have to commit to doing it and actually carry that plan out. In the last year they seem to have been focused on "pushing junk out the door as fast as possible." It looks like that's stopped, which is great - hopefully they'll use the time to fix the mistakes they made along the way.

 

As for 3E - I know that screwing their fans by publishing a new version of an existing, popular game to make all their existing stuff "obsolete" is kind of FFG's thing, but as someone who has spent quite a bit of money on Descent, there is no possibility that I'd buy a 3e any time in the next 5 years. Probably 10.

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Simple :-)

 

Co-op (GNK) is dungeon crawling

 

Descent2  is a tactical game (for me 2 heroes vs. overlord is unplayable and 3/4 heroes for one player is overwhelming) and the campaign will take an era to be played (at least 9 playing sessions).

 

So if you look for a dungeon crawling game, GNK is the solution, but needs a little more variability for replayability. We (my wife and my two nephews) played it twice in four days (half a campaign per day) and it was exactly what we were looking for.

 

I can understand people wanting a tactical game (I prefer Go), but it is a pity for us looking for a dungeon crawl to have so much (in terms of "great material" (heroes, monsters, items, tiles, ...)) and cannot use it for a "simple" dungeon crawl. GNK is so much better than D&D board games (CR, WoA & LoD). I hope FFG will not miss the opportunity (use the same material for two different ways of playing getting both markets).

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I would love it if FFG just sends us a new and updated rulebook (which contains all rules including the the expansions. also updated cards that they made an errata on. call it the "revision box set"

That would be cool. They're not just sending it out, but they have reprinted the core set including the rulebook, and it incorporates many of the changes to cards and quests that have been in the FAQ.

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On BGG someone also started a topic about why is Descent slowing down. I do not know why but it is slowing down very fast. It was like almost every month or two we got something if not a anoucement/news then a new product. Now it stoped.

I do not know but it makes me feel like becouse Descent and SW: Imperial Assault are very close to each other products that the first one is making room for SW:IA. I did not have anything agains the fast comming prtoducts fro Descent and It would be great if they would keep it this way but it looks it will not happen. The future of Descent looks from my perspective like we will be getting one box expansions and maybe two H&M collection per year. After it will come D3e. I feel like SW:IA is going to push Descent out of the way and become FFG number one board game. And becouse it is very similar to Descent it will take it pleace.

On the other hand I got a very interesting catch - FFG deleted Runebound forums. So the future of Descent could be a new Runebound game.

Cheers

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On BGG someone also started a topic about why is Descent slowing down.

There is nothing in this topic that presents any concrete information about anything, nothing that we didn't know about. There is no informative analysis of why the dude thinks so or anything that can even remotely justify starting a thread/post about it. Let's be clear, people are having a bad feeling about this, start up a thread about it and then go prophetic about it. Meanwhile we get constant stream of new people saying how cool Descent is that read this crap about speculations that are not even true or interesting to discuss (for lack of info or facts). If I was bored I would go over to BGG and systematically respond to these guys. It's doing a ton of harm to the Descent fan base currently and I´m really upset about it.

 

I do not know why but it is slowing down very fast. It was like almost every month or two we got something if not a anoucement/news then a new product. Now it stoped.

Oh, so you didn't see any "news" posted for a few weeks for this game, and therefore it must be dead. After all Manor of Ravens got just released, the H&M collections are stil going, there is a need for a 3rd big box right know because, frankly, content-wise, Descent is piss-poor. Oh and we want balance as well, and enough playtesting. Just wow. That's bad of you FFG, really bad. Especially since you don't have 10 years of replayability with this game and expansions already, FFG has to slow down on the mental release schedule for this game. Better off selling it on eBay before the game goes down. It's a shame to be such a bad owner.

For the record, I also exlusively play games based on hotness factor. No hot anymore? We dump it in the garbage. Doesn't matter if the game is good, if manufacturer doesn't have the ability to supply us with expansions at the pace we want then it surely loses some steam. Heck, people are deserting this game.

 

I did not have anything agains the fast comming prtoducts fro Descent and It would be great if they would keep it this way but it looks it will not happen. The future of Descent looks from my perspective like we will be getting one box expansions and maybe two H&M collection per year. After it will come D3e.

Based on the position of the stars, in conjunction with the current information from some BGG fellows talking like they knew anything, you are absolutelty right. Anyway. That's a TON of assumptions and I fail to see the point to even write them in a post. Making conclusions out of stone nowhere.

 

I feel like SW:IA is going to push Descent out of the way and become FFG number one board game. And becouse it is very similar to Descent it will take it pleace.

On the other hand I got a very interesting catch - FFG deleted Runebound forums. So the future of Descent could be a new Runebound game.

Cheers

I realized something similar when I saw Arcane Wonders were releasing another game than Mage Wars. It has to be that Mage Wars is a dead game. Also, last time I checked, www.mylittlepony.D3E.com was not taken, so I guess we can all assume some strong theming in the next edition of Descent.

Now I´ll be nice and tell you that you don't have to worry. Seriously, I mean it. Descent is a fine game, will probably get a 3E at some point but not right now, you will get your new boxes at a somehow slower pace but we will get there, you will see.

Edited by Indalecio

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I do not worry about the future of Descent, I'm just curiuos how FFG will handle two game that much similar to each other. Descent will be slowing down and I think they could take it up in a little bit different direction then it is now so SW:IA and Descent will have more differences. At this point SW:IA is looking like a total clone of Descent with some twist to make the game more balanced.

Descent 2e is a good game and already has a tone of expansions that will let this game be played over years. It even has more of them then 1e ever had.

The process of ending a line is also long in case of FFG. Sometimes the line is just not getting expansions but still is there _ look at WFRP 3e for a example (2 years of nothing and after it an official final FAQ and end of line).

Why I do not worry abput Descent becouse it will evolve. Even when 2e will end and 3e will come there still will be people that will play 2e, just like now there are still the ones that play 1e. Besides it already has so much of stuff in it that You can create almost any adventure and play it.

One more thing I think that when Descent will be getting less attention (one/two expansion or zero per year ) then it will happen besouse it will be pushed back not only by SW:IA but also there's a rumour about a new Runebound comming. I can imagine that a new Runebound could take it's pleace. Why? Becouse FFG whant's always to have not many the same games with the same mechanics but as many different games that have a different feel to it.

That's just are my thughts and I do not have any official news. That just my way of thing\king about how can this case evolve in the future based on my gaming over 15 years expirience.

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I think calling this game dead is a bit of an overreaction and passionate people tend to overreact, so I guess this literal phrase shouldn't be taken too seriously.

 

On the other hand it's hard to deny that new content for Descent 2E seems to slow down a little bit as far as we can tell from new announcements. I think it's even plausible that FFG focused their attention on SW:IA right now to release a few expansions as quickly as possible after the base game releases.

 

However the lack of new Descent announcements could also be a clever marketing way to lead the attention of the content-hungry D2E community to SW:IA and getting them to really think about buying the base game, because at the time it releases there is no new D2E expansion on the horizon, which leaves you with enough time and money to dive into this new franchise.

 

Then after the dust settles they maybe announce a new Descent big box expansion for summer 2015.

 

Keep in mind that we already got a big and a small box expansion this year as well as a few Hero&monster packs. Along with the handfull of complaints they got about the extremely subpar Nerekhall hero-miniatures and a new mini-intensive game (SW:IA) on the horizon, maybe they will try to wait until their quality mini-facturer is free to produce the next Descent minis, which means their next expansion will hit a little bit later than Nerekhall did.

Edited by DAMaz

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Let's also not forget that "Descent is slowing down" is a relative statement in the wake of a a wave of releases that had (at least myself) oversaturated with Descent material. The third of the four announced H&M packs was just released, so we're still waiting for Guardians of Deephall, and Manor of Ravens is pretty fresh. There may not be a bunch of announcements recently, but take a look at the timeline:

Jul 2012: Base game released

Dec 2012: Lair of the Wyrm released

 

(2012 had the base game and a small expansion)

 

July 2013: Labyrinth of Ruin released

Oct 2013: Trollfens released, Nerekhall announced

Nov 2013: 1st 6 lieutenant packs released

Dec 2013: Valyndra and Bol'Goreth released

 

(2013 had a big box, a small box, and 8 lieutenant packs)

 

While so far 2014 has seen: 1 big box, 1 small box, 9 lieutenant packs,  co-op play,  and 3 hero and monster packs (with another on the way.)  

 

It's not exactly coming to a screeching halt, is it? I agree with DAMaz's point that this may be a temporary shift of focus. Whatever the cause, I'm not upset by the lull- it gives me time to catch up to all of the new content.

Edited by Zaltyre

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Let's also not forget that "Descent is slowing down" is a relative statement in the wake of a a wave of releases that had (at least myself) oversaturated with Descent material. The third of the four announced H&M packs was just released, so we're still waiting for Guardians of Deephall, and Manor of Ravens is pretty fresh. There may not be a bunch of announcements recently, but take a look at the timeline:

Jul 2012: Base game released

Dec 2012: Lair of the Wyrm released

 

(2012 had the base game and a small expansion)

 

July 2013: Labyrinth of Ruin released

Oct 2013: Trollfens released, Nerekhall announced

Nov 2013: 1st 6 lieutenant packs released

Dec 2013: Valyndra and Bol'Goreth released

 

(2013 had a big box, a small box, and 8 lieutenant packs)

 

While so far 2014 has seen: 1 big box, 1 small box, 9 lieutenant packs,  co-op play,  and 3 hero and monster packs (with another on the way.)  

 

It's not exactly coming to a screeching halt, is it? I agree with DAMaz's point that this may be a temporary shift of focus. Whatever the cause, I'm not upset by the lull- it gives me time to catch up to all of the new content.

very well put.

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Posted (edited)
On 9/29/2014 at 7:06 PM, tibia said:

Simple :-)

 

Co-op (GNK) is dungeon crawling

 

Descent2  is a tactical game (for me 2 heroes vs. overlord is unplayable and 3/4 heroes for one player is overwhelming) and the campaign will take an era to be played (at least 9 playing sessions).

 

So if you look for a dungeon crawling game, GNK is the solution, but needs a little more variability for replayability. We (my wife and my two nephews) played it twice in four days (half a campaign per day) and it was exactly what we were looking for.

 

I can understand people wanting a tactical game (I prefer Go), but it is a pity for us looking for a dungeon crawl to have so much (in terms of "great material" (heroes, monsters, items, tiles, ...)) and cannot use it for a "simple" dungeon crawl. GNK is so much better than D&D board games (CR, WoA & LoD). I hope FFG will not miss the opportunity (use the same material for two different ways of playing getting both markets).

What is this GNK refers to? may I ask. 

Edited by FGMK
To include Notify me of replies

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10 hours ago, FGMK said:

What is this GNK refers to? may I ask. 

Good question ?

It is interesting that I read the quote and didn't understand that it was me he who wrote it ?

BTW, the post is dated 2014 when things were different (the app was not there at that time). GNK stands for Game Night Kit which was just introduced (or to be introduced) and, at the end of the day, the market product were 3 Co-op adventures based on 12 "plot cards" each (if I remember correctly. Of course there were cards for monsters AI and perils): Forgotten Souls,  Nature's Ire and Dark Elements

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2024041/co-op-adventures-similar-rtl

Then the app came, so you can read GNK as every mean in which you can play coop ?

Note: at that time only Overlord vs. Heroes was available and GNK tried to approach the coop mode (it was available only to game shops for organized playing nights, thus the name). The great success it (and the 3 adventures) had convinced FFG to develop the app we know today

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4 hours ago, Batfink said:

So disappointed that FFG didn’t have any Descent news at GenCon.

i just want to know thet they are planning something for Descent, anything!

Agreed, considering the hints over the past months I thought they would say something at gen con even if it was a 3rd ed (which I don't want).

Really expected something as did others I've talked to. Can't help but think this will damage Descent2 as many will assume it's now dead.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Batfink said:

So disappointed that FFG didn’t have any Descent news at GenCon.

i just want to know thet they are planning something for Descent, anything!

It might be a surprise tomorrow... We will see. At the Board Game Geek forums you can see that tomorrow :

1:20 - Fantasy Flight Games - X-Wing 2nd Edition, TBD

 

TDB? Too **** Bad? what is the meaning of these three magical letters? Maybe it is To Be Determined :) There's still hope for all of us.

 

Edited by topper30

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1 hour ago, topper30 said:

It might be a surprise tomorrow... We will see. At the Board Game Geek forums you can see that tomorrow :

1:20 - Fantasy Flight Games - X-Wing 2nd Edition, TBD

 

TDB? Too **** Bad? what is the meaning of these three magical letters? Maybe it is To Be Determined :) There's still hope for all of us.

 

HI

How a surprise tomorrow? I thought all the news occurs within the in flight report which is now done.

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Posted (edited)

" 19 hours ago, topper30 said:

It might be a surprise tomorrow... We will see. At the Board Game Geek forums you can see that tomorrow :

1:20 - Fantasy Flight Games - X-Wing 2nd Edition, TBD "

 

Maybe don't get too excited about the TBD.

 

On the referenced BGG post ( https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2033810/gen-con-2018-broadcast-schedule-game-demos-and-int  )

I note it says "Beyond that, I've chosen a few upcoming releases that I think will have high levels of interest among BGG users as well as a few titles that will debut at SPIEL '18. "

The 'tbd' could just be a case of the interviewer choosing something from the games announced at GenCon or not having made the final 'other game' choice yet for some other reason, so unless it's the long shot and Descent is in the 'will debut at Spiel' category (in which case knowing FFG it will probably be a case of 'we're saying nothing' anyway), I wouldn't hold your hopes too high.

 

I'm still thinking edition three's on the way at some unknown future date and what we're missing in two (and from one) may never happen unless it's found its way into three, FFG aren't always bothered about legacy/completeness with new versions, however good they are, thus don't always get this right- also knowing FFG three could be way different to two and one. Which could be in both good and bad ways. But no point speculating 'til we have some actual news (waits ever-patiently)

 

This game's legacy matters enough for them to please not get it wrong. Of course we may never find out or might have joined Waiqar's legions of the dead before knowing ... ... ... ... ...

 

But of course the interviewer SHOULD ask about TBD: The Boardgame Descent

Edited by Watercolour Dragon
lols

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Posted (edited)

I've noticed that the event for FFG is the only one that will last 30 minutes, the other companies will have only 10 minutes for presentation. So let's see. Plenty of time to ask questions. 

 

Edited by topper30

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