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TedMaul

FaD Carrers and Specializations

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Does everyone like all the new careers and specs?

What about how the specializations are spread within the careers?

There are some topics there I am struggling with:

 

1) First of all, the Jedi-ish (Sentinel, Guardian and Consular) career`s fluff are pretty straightforward, but I would say that the Force Adepts (Mystic, Seeker and Warrior) need more work. I don't like that all the 6 careers have Lightsaber Forms specializations. I think they should really be distinguished as "Jedi-ish" and "Force Adept-ish". So, Ataru Striker, Makashi Duelist, Shii-cho Knight should be moved to Sentinel, Consular and Guardian, respectively.

 

2) Mystic's fluff, specially, seems awkward. I imagine it should be more like a wizard/hermit theme, so Seer fits nicely but Advisor doesn't. The Advisor spec fits thematically better in the Consular career, which is supposed to be diplomat-like, while Healer seems to fit better with Mystic or Seeker.

 

3) Flavor-wise, I am missing new stuff on unarmed combat. I expected some talents and maybe 1 or 2 specializations dedicated to the martial artist stereotype. The Warrior, at least, should have one of those, instead of Shii-Cho Knight.

 

4) "Seeker" sounds like a bad career name, since there is also a "Seek" Force Power.

 

5) Although I like the Artisan spec, I dislike that it is tied to Sentinel. Its fluff represents a intuitive understanding of machinery provided by the Force, which fits better with the Mystic. Also, the Sentinel is supposed to be more like a underworld roguish-type, not a support character, and this technological focus seems odd within the Sentinel.

 

6) Since the standard seen in EotE's and AoR's careers books is to expand each career with 3 new specializations (for a total of 6 specs per career) there should be a limit to how many specializations within a career grant Force Rating +1. Actually, I would be very pleased if there were 1 or 2 specializations for each career with very few, if any, Force focus (i.e. Force talents)

 

 

I would love to see other people's thoughts on these matters!

Just keep in mind that, if any of theses changes concerns reach the developers and some specs need to be left out of the Core Rulebook, they could always come back on the F&D`s future supplements. 

PS: Sorry for the long and confusing topic, but I was on a hurry.

Edited by TedMaul

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1/2/5) I will admit I could be wrong but it seems like you're putting a bit too much emphasis on names. At its heart, what makes a Jedi isn't *how* they use the force (or what name is attached to them) but the code that they follow. FF has intentionally stayed away from making a distinction between "Force Adepts" and "Jedi". Instead, each career essentially reflects a force user who typically approaches problems with a specific trait (Brawn, etc) in mind. Consular is Willpower, Guardian is Brawn, Mystic is Presence, Seeker is Agility, Sentinel is Cunning, Warrior is... Brawn. Okay, so Guardian and Warrior are redundant (they should fix that), but otherwise the theory is sound.

1) The above is at least part of why each career has its own lightsaber specialization; each lightsaber style is better suited to a particular approach. That said, it does seem a little odd that non-physical careers (such as the consular) would have a particular lightsaber style associated with it, especially since it is possible to specialize outside your career to get it. But I also don't see 3 as "Jedi-ish" and 3 as "Adept-ish". I see all 6 as "Force Users" and the 3 you've labelled "Adept-ish" shouldn't be precluded from lightsaber techniques just because of their names.

2) The point of specializations isn't only to further refine a particular concept but also to emphasize the fact that a career is a broad thing. I'd have too look at the book again but I suspect there is a very good reason those specializations are where they are.

3) Well, it's definitely not there. I didn't miss it, personally, since the signature Force User weapon is a lightsaber and that got covered to death, but I would be disappointed if it didn't turn up in the Warrior/Guardian splat book. (Still rooting for those to become one thing.)

4) I think it's intentional. The demo character for Seeker had the Seek force ability. If anything, though, "Seek" needs another name.

5) Sentinel is the only career with tech Skills of any kind. Don't put too much faith in the fluff.

6) With the F&D core book alone, a character can reach a Force Rating of 14 (only the Niman style gives Force Rating; appropriate for the Consular). Add in the other two core books and you can hit 16. Honestly, at that point, what's a few more? There's actually a similar ability that's in *every* tree in *every* book, called "Dedication" that lets you boost a stat by one. Force Rating isn't much different and it has the same limiting factor. It is really expletive-ing expensive to get that high in a tree and really wasteful just to do it for the one ability; especially since it costs more every time you take a new specialization. I think in practice you're going to find that the problem solves itself but your group can always house rule it. Personally I don't see much practical difference between FR 16 and FR 32.

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6) With the F&D core book alone, a character can reach a Force Rating of 14 (only the Niman style gives Force Rating; appropriate for the Consular). Add in the other two core books and you can hit 16. Honestly, at that point, what's a few more? There's actually a similar ability that's in *every* tree in *every* book, called "Dedication" that lets you boost a stat by one. Force Rating isn't much different and it has the same limiting factor. It is really expletive-ing expensive to get that high in a tree and really wasteful just to do it for the one ability; especially since it costs more every time you take a new specialization. I think in practice you're going to find that the problem solves itself but your group can always house rule it. Personally I don't see much practical difference between FR 16 and FR 32.

 

Most campaigns will end well before a character has a chance to reach 14 Force Rating. Most would end before anyone probably can grab 7. The lower number of Force Ratings is for balance purposes. When a force user has 7 Force Rating, they're pretty much in easy street with all of their force powers and talents that use force powers to amp up certain skill checks. Adding more basically lets players have an easier time become stronger than Darth Vader/Palpatine. 

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1) I think that careers do reflect an approach on the force. Guardians, for instance, use it to protect those in need, while Seekers have a focus in surviving harsh environments, so I don't think you could say that a career is more or less Jedi-ish. The book itself states that Consulars are not Jedi Consulars...

 

2) I'd consider exchanging Advisor and Sage in order to reflect that mysticism, but I'm not sure as I don't have the book with me and cannot read the Talents.

 

3) Unarmed combat seems more like a spec for a future book, rather than a career focus itself, as we don't see many force users who favor that form of combat.

4) You do have a point. 

 

5) I think Artisan's fine there because a Sentinel isn't necessarily a rogue. If you look into KOTOR or KOTOR 2 stuff, you will find the Sentinel to be a Jedi who invests in other skills rather than combat (Guardian) or Force Powers (Consular). I think the spec's reflecting that.

 

6) I'd argue against it because I think players look for flavour and Talents, rather than a way to max their FR. Sure, there will be one powergamer, but you can just throw a Rancor at him (: Just kidding. A more solid argument would be to say that you will need a high FR if you consider that someday, after training your a** out, you will be on par with Vader and Obi-Wan

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Reading through "The Jedi Path", sentinels are clearly individuals who put less of an emphasis on Force powers and glowsticks. They're the ones who know how to slice a computer, to shoot a blaster, or to maintain the temple droids. Artisan fist great in the sentinel career. In the book, Luke even denotes that most of his pupils would fit into the sentinel career since they were taught later in life and already had a variety of skills not directly related to the force.

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Most campaigns will end well before a character has a chance to reach 14 Force Rating. Most would end before anyone probably can grab 7. The lower number of Force Ratings is for balance purposes. When a force user has 7 Force Rating, they're pretty much in easy street with all of their force powers and talents that use force powers to amp up certain skill checks. Adding more basically lets players have an easier time become stronger than Darth Vader/Palpatine. 

 

I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. Adding more in-career specialties makes it a little easier to hit FR 7 but only 30XP. My point was mostly that I don't see it mattering because you can already hit ridiculous power levels. The in/out-of-career XP variance for specializations is very small compared to how much it takes to pick them up+get to FR.

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I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. Adding more in-career specialties makes it a little easier to hit FR 7 but only 30XP. My point was mostly that I don't see it mattering because you can already hit ridiculous power levels. The in/out-of-career XP variance for specializations is very small compared to how much it takes to pick them up+get to FR.

 

 

Very much disagreeing. The goal shouldn't be to make it easy for everyone to become Starkillers. As it stands now, it takes a bit of dedication to become anywhere close towards becoming a powerful force user, as it should be.

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I love the new specs, and the new careers. I'm finding no problem with thier flavor nor their acess to Force Rating. Ot is going to take years for someone to get to FR 4, or a very focused and narrow build. I like that the careers are mostly tradition agnostic; sure there are Jedi themed names but you can totally make Guardians and consulars be from different Force traditions. I like that the Lightsaber trees are split among the 6 careers, because it helps chsracters make jedi who are more than just the traditional 3 (Dooku practically owned the Mystic career, all specs)

I like em as they are, and so does my players who are helping us test this.

YMMV.

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1/2/5) I will admit I could be wrong but it seems like you're putting a bit too much emphasis on names. At its heart, what makes a Jedi isn't *how* they use the force (or what name is attached to them) but the code that they follow. FF has intentionally stayed away from making a distinction between "Force Adepts" and "Jedi". Instead, each career essentially reflects a force user who typically approaches problems with a specific trait (Brawn, etc) in mind. Consular is Willpower, Guardian is Brawn, Mystic is Presence, Seeker is Agility, Sentinel is Cunning, Warrior is... Brawn. Okay, so Guardian and Warrior are redundant (they should fix that), but otherwise the theory is sound.

 

5) Sentinel is the only career with tech Skills of any kind. Don't put too much faith in the fluff.

 

 

1) I think that careers do reflect an approach on the force. Guardians, for instance, use it to protect those in need, while Seekers have a focus in surviving harsh environments, so I don't think you could say that a career is more or less Jedi-ish. The book itself states that Consulars are not Jedi Consulars...

 

 

I am putting a lot of emphasis on names and fluff!

That's what I have being doing since EotE and AoR: the career's names tell me what it is supposed to be and do. I am pretty sure what a career named Smuggler, Ace or Spy is, because it tells me what a character with that career does, and its chosen specializations would tell me which areas of his career to focus on.

 

And I do understand that the game devs separeted Force tradition from the careers (and I love that, actually), but the 3 classical "Jedi" careers do have a flavor attached to them, besides its link to the Jedi Force tradition and LS training:

- the Consular is a skilled loremaster and diplomat, eschewing fights whenever possible, and studying a lot of the Force. 

- the Guardian is a warrior who uses the Force to complement its fighting abilities and protect others.

- the Sentinel is a "in-between" of Guardian and Consular, dedicating to learn general skills, a little bit of fighting and some Force abilities.

 

But what a Seeker career does? Seeks people and places? Weird, since it step in the toes of Explorer a bit. I actually think of it as someone who intuitively uses the Force to survive in and navigate the wilds (which falls a little under the Mystic also).

And what does a Warrior career does? It fights with antiquated melee weapons? So does the Guardian. 

Actually, I think the Seeker and the Warrior are not good careers choices at all, as they could just be represented to Mystic and Guardian, respectively. They just exist to keep the standard of having 6-careers-with-3-specs per corebook.

If you move Seeker's and Warrior's specs to other careers, I don't think they wouldn't be missed at all.

 

 

1) The above is at least part of why each career has its own lightsaber specialization; each lightsaber style is better suited to a particular approach. That said, it does seem a little odd that non-physical careers (such as the consular) would have a particular lightsaber style associated with it, especially since it is possible to specialize outside your career to get it. But I also don't see 3 as "Jedi-ish" and 3 as "Adept-ish". I see all 6 as "Force Users" and the 3 you've labelled "Adept-ish" shouldn't be precluded from lightsaber techniques just because of their names.

 

My problem with all the careers having 1 LS spec is that not every FU stereotype favors lightsaber as a weapon of choice. 

So, if any force adept, from any career, really wants to wield a LS, he should pick one of those LS Forms (as non-career spec if necessary), but not every force using career should give incentives to learn LS wielding.

 

 

5) I think Artisan's fine there because a Sentinel isn't necessarily a rogue. If you look into KOTOR or KOTOR 2 stuff, you will find the Sentinel to be a Jedi who invests in other skills rather than combat (Guardian) or Force Powers (Consular). I think the spec's reflecting that.

 

I haven't played KOTOR or KOTOR 2 a lot, so I really can't say anything about it. All of my SW lore references come from the movies, series, books and previous SW RPG I played (both WotC editions).

 

 

6) With the F&D core book alone, a character can reach a Force Rating of 14 (only the Niman style gives Force Rating; appropriate for the Consular). Add in the other two core books and you can hit 16. Honestly, at that point, what's a few more? There's actually a similar ability that's in *every* tree in *every* book, called "Dedication" that lets you boost a stat by one. Force Rating isn't much different and it has the same limiting factor. It is really expletive-ing expensive to get that high in a tree and really wasteful just to do it for the one ability; especially since it costs more every time you take a new specialization. I think in practice you're going to find that the problem solves itself but your group can always house rule it. Personally I don't see much practical difference between FR 16 and FR 32.

 

The thing is that Dedication has 2 limits: it can't increase an ability beyond 6, and when you select it, you have to choose between 6 abilities to appy it to. Maybe the game should limit FR to 6 as well.

 

When you buy FR +1, you only have FR "ability" to increase. And if this talent shows up in all of the 6 specializations within a career (there will probably be career books expanding the F&D specs too), it would be too easy to reach a FR of 4+, since you don't have to pay extra XP to have a non-career spec. This would be a major failure on game balance between Force users and non-users

 

Also, it would be useful to have some benchmarks or guidelines on what means to have a FR of 1, 2, 3 and up.

I would say Yoda and Sidious, as the most powerful FU in the movies, should represent what a FR 6 means (and it shouldn't be too easy to be like Yoda... after all he had 900 years old to study the Force ;) ).

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