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Volstruis

Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist

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I don't think FFG should use NRDB either.  The issue is that they should come to an understanding that allows NRDB to continue to function to the greatest degree that respects the needs of FFG.  While it has been suggested that FFG should buy it, that sets a bad precedent for both sides.  From the FFG side it's the community demanding that in order to protect their rights FFG should buy out community endeavors.  This is an untenable request for FFG and it undermines the community's credibility in requesting behavior from FFG.  From the community side it's that FFG should be paying money to monopolize independently-created resources and community sites.  I'm not saying that it would be a bad thing for FFG to buy out NRDB necessarily, but people saying that that's the easy or good solution are being a bit shortsighted.

 

I'm just going to throw this out there.  I'm open to criticism.  It's not well thought out, but:  Could we have a players union?  If things like this come up again in the future, could we utilize collective bargaining?  This whole situation has been blown out of proportion by having many individuals getting angry individually and reacting individually.  A players union could moderate negative community reactions and also allow the community to moderate FFG to a degree.  This is a radical idea and I anticipate that there are a lot of negatives associated with it that I'm not thinking of, so let me hear what you think about it.

 

EDIT: (A players union could perhaps negotiate with FFG about organized play too.  Again, the whole notion may not be possible and/or positive.  It's an idea.)

Edited by thopol

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There is no benefit for anyone in taking the most radical stance first.

 

While I would generally agree in most environments, this is not the case when dealing with a company.

 

As a consumer, you have only one way of voting your displeasure - spending your money elsewhere. You can rant and rage all you want, but if you don't make it clear that the issue threatens to make you stop spending money, it carries no weight.

 

FFG needs to know that how they treat the community that supports their product can cause their consumers to leave. I trust at this point that the message is getting through. How they respond and act in the near future will tell us a great deal about the character of the company.

 

I like FFG games and have spent a good deal of money on them. My continued 'vote' will depend greatly on how they deal with this crisis.

 

FFG - you are on notice with the community for one of your largest and quickest growing products. Proceed with care!

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My email to FFG customer support:

 

I very much have enjoyed the games you make and am saddened by the decision to shut down netrunnerdb.com.  You have shut down the best part of the community for me, and therefore I will no longer purchase any FFG product in the future.  Thank you for saving me a ton of money and showing that your legal department is more important than your fan base!  Your silence on the matter speaks volumes as to the priorities of the company.

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I'm disgusted. I love so much Netrunner that thinking about stop playing is a big deal. I tried use cardgamedb today and stopped right away. It just can get even close to netrunnerdb. Right now, the best option is meteor, but I'm afraid they will die too. Even all mighty wizard of the coast would not kill a comunity so amazing as netrunnerdb just to make its own deckbuild mandatory. And the silence from FFG make all the worse. A sad day indeed.

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I made an account on here just to say I loved netrunnerDb! I understand a Cease and desist and that FFG has a right to do it. But I don't like how FFG handled this, nor do I like how FFG has ignored the people posting on the forums about the issue. To be honest I have more of an issue with FFG ignore all of you then I do the cease and desist. So until FFG responds, my gaming group and I will no longer buy any FFG products.

Edited by lordcryx

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I'm a casual gamer & avid netrunner fan I heavily relied on the chrome Netrunner lookup extension that utilized NetrunnerDB. The lookup extension allowed me to participate in discussion on BGG & other sites easily, because it was so easy to reference the card(s) being discussed.

 

Bottom line is that without these online deck builders & associated tools for players, this game is just too cumbersome for me to enjoy the game. CardGameDB is poorly laid out, and no where near as easy to use. 

 

i feel like this is the end of Netrunner for me unless some amazing tools appear in the near future. It also makes me very weary of getting involved in any LCG game from FFG for fear of similar treatment in the future.

 

 

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At least we deserve to know why this happened.  If people are going around making sites to build up the game, they should avoid the pitfalls that make FFG shut them down.  This undermines the community so much by discouraging people from being engaged and creative.

 

There has been zero attempt at damage control.  What the hell.

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For me, that's the straw that breaks the camel's back (incomplete core set on one hand but unnecessary cards copy on data pack on the other for ex.)...

 

I'm done with FFG. You've just lost a customer.

 

And, by the way, thanks.

It was fun.

And the timing is quite perfect with other good card games that have just been released.

Edited by instre

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For me, that's the straw that breaks the camel's back (incomplete core set on one hand but unnecessary cards copy on data pack on the other for ex.)...

Say what now? The core sets I bought were complete...

If you have a complaint with FFG, you should let them know, though. You can contact them at user support, here. That way, you can be sure that your complaint gets heard by the right people. I don't know who reads these forums on FFG staff.

 

I am a bit worried about how this is going to impact the future of the game. Not from people quitting, but from new players. NDB provided a great way to get into the game and build decks, and it was fun to use. It kept me thinking up and adding new decks. Having great community sites like that is a good way to get new players into the game. No offense to the person / people running CardGameDB, but it is not fun to use. I know they want me to send my suggestions to them, but what I want would require a major rewrite.

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Welp, cardgameDB is gone.  I'm cancelling my datapack preorders and jumping ship.  I'll be staying far away from anything with the Fantasy Flight Logo on it from now on.  Apparently the only way your voice will reach the soulless wights that run Fantasy Flight is to put away your wallet.

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when thier games no longer appear at the top of top 10 game lists and they see their titles flagging....maybe then they will get the picture. but for them it will be too late....i am sure the legal department will get a revamp since the next business quarter will show a HUGE DECREASE in traffic and sales. someone is going to not be getting paid, and will loose a job because....FFG no longer has a cash cow title or any capital, cause they now have killed thier customer base.

pro move.

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Just so you guys see the big picture, I collected the awesome assets the community had lost due to this whole mess:

 

NetrunnerDB

 

The best online deck building tool that worked perfectly on mobile devices and was used by thousands of avid players.

 

 

Net Deck

 

The best deck builder for iOS, built by the same guy who brought us the tournament organizer app. Net Deck is off the App Store as of yesterday afternoon.

 

 

The Netrunner Chrome Plug-in

 

This was a really handy tool that allowed you to see every Netrunner card anytime they were mentioned in a text. It became inoperable once NetrunnerDB went down.

 

 

TeamworkCast Netrunner coverage

 

They are a German YouTube team that provided pretty good tournament coverage in English, comperable to Team Covenant quality-wise. They were not affected by the API takedown but chose to refrain from covering Netrunner in the future in fear they will be next. They are not protesting but simply afraid they will come under legal action by FFG; so, why put any effort into Netrunner.

 

Netrunner Deck Builder

 

The Android platform's own deckbuilder app cannot fetch card data any more either.

 

littlechiba.com

 

Littlechiba.com is unable to display card info anymore. :(

 

NRTM

 

NRTM (which is the best tournament orginizing aid hands down) is no longer able to update its identity database automatically, making using the app a lot more cumbersome.

 

 

Jinteki.net

 

They had it coming, and I don't think anyone is disagreeing with them being gone. The fact so many others had to suffer is whole other matter...

 

 

I'll update this post once more of the collateral damage comes to light. Oh, and I am too jumping on the boycott train against FFG. I know it seems like an overreaction for many of you, but I just don't feel good about giving them my hard earned cash. Good thing Doomtown Reloaded came along. :D

Edited by MBarber82

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Net Deck

 

The best deck builder for iOS, built by the same guy who brought us the tournament organizer app. Net Deck is off the App Store as of yesterday afternoon.

 

 

Just adding my two cents: Netrunner Deck Builder, best app for Android imho, can't fetch the images from NRDB anymore.

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Well I'm on board now.  I won't say that I won't get any FFG products ever again, and I'm definitely not going to quit playing, but I'm going to give the datapacks and forcepacks a rest until we have some communication from the company on what is and is not allowed.  The lack thereof is a very damaging thing.  Anyway, there are games that I haven't bought because of my devotion to ANR and I might just get to play them now.  FFG makes some great games, but it's the community that took it to the next level.  If FFG is going to go laying waste to third party endeavors that benefit everyone, there's no reason to go on supporting them (the company I mean.  I'll still be visiting the sites and listening to the podcasts etc.).

 

What we need is transparency when it comes to the relationship between FFG and the community.  I could respect their decisions if they felt that they needed to make a case in their defense.  If they remedy this enormous problem with the laughably easy solution of just communicating, I will go on buying their products.

 

(That players union idea I had seems like a pippin.)

 

EDIT:  To the boycotters.  If you want to make your boycott more punchy, also swear off other products in the licenses FFG has.  If you think they'll be afraid you'll stop buying, make them afraid that they won't be pulling in enough to please their partners.

Edited by thopol

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SIGNED !!

 

What's that sh.t FFG ?! NetRunner lives thanks to the community, whithout it you wouldn't have gone to the 3rd cycle !

 

Games Workshop did actions like this one to kill fan creation --> Space Hulk fell back to the 102th place on BGG.

 

I'll be avoiding everything FFG-esque till they resolve this.

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Signed.

 

Even if it was in FFG's legal rights to do this, I'm very sad they did. Alsciende had a dialogue with FFG but for no good. I wonder why the couldn't reach a mutually satisfactory agreement.

 

Until further information on this matter from FFG, I put a hold on all purchases of FFG products.

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I've been a FFG fan for well over a decade, from their RPGs like Midnight, to boardgames like Arkham Horror and to LCGs like Invasion. It is with a heavy heart that I say, that unless we get a reasonable explanation as to why NetrunnerDB was shut down Upstalk will be the last Netrunner product I buy, and I will be limiting other purchases from FFG to the bare minimum. You don't treat your customers like this. In the absence of any form of dialogue from FFG, our only option is to vote with our wallets.

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