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Volstruis

Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist

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I'm not surprised. Once Jinteki.net went online using NDB's API, the writing was on the wall.

 

Yes, yes, we all saw the C&D for Jinteki.net coming, but I am disappointed that FFG does not bother to involve itself enough into the community around one of their major LCGs to actually realize that a complete shutdown of netrunnerdb is a huge slap in the face of a big part of the community.

Just doing away with a generic C&D does not do justice to the great contribution of netrunnerdb to the community. In my eyes, a C&D for jinteki.net and approaching netrunnerdb to discuss a possible future for it (e.g. no images hosted on netrunnerdb or no API or whatever) or giving it some restraints might have been the desirable approach.

 

Edit: Signed! (Obviously)

Edited by faith_star83

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Very much SIGNED!

 

This is a really bad move on the behalf of FFG.

 

I am already hearing people in my gaming club quitting both NR and X-Wing, and cancelling their pre-orders and subscriptions for those new games that are coming. We love the games but we will not feed FFG any more money or goodwill if this is how it is going to be.

 

It will hurt FFG to a small degree and the FLGS alot more I'm afraid.

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Such a stupid reason to quit a game. If you really liked the games the companies acts to protect it's property would not make you quit. If you like the game then play it.

 

I disagree.  You're taking a very narrow view of the situation.  A huge reason people play these LCGs is for the community that springs up around them.  In case you didn't know, Netrunner requires an opponents to play.  Everyone who so loves this game wants to encourage more people to get into the game so they'll have more folks to play with now and in the future.  If Fantasy Flight is taking actions that are actively breaking these communities apart, it sets a very clear message that the company is more interested in protecting their IP than ensuring that the people who buy their games have the resources to enjoy them fully.  I don't see how choosing not to support a company that doesn't have it's customer's best interests at heart is considered a "stupid reason."

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I wouldn't really call NDB a community. It's a place where people can create decklists and others can comment on it. This is a community, stimhack is a community,BGG is a community.

 

The problem is the API that allows anyone to insert quality versions of the cards into whatever they please. There are a few apps and browser plugins that use it, but Jinteki was the final straw. If they let NDB keep going, what's to stop someone from building something like Jinteki and hosting it on a server that doesn't care as much about copyright protection? If NDB didn't have the API and kept low rez versions of the cards, they probably wouldn't have had this problem.

Edited by Dstinct

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That's certainly your opinion to have.  I have a broader view where a community is a gathering of people where there is shared activity or exchange of ideas.  I don't feel a lack of a proper forum or strategy articles makes it any less of community than the other places you mentioned.

 

If the API was the problem why not just work with the Netrunnerdb to change to lower quality scans or just disable it someway?  Just ramming in a C&D letter seems like a really lazy hamfisted approach by Fantasy Flight.

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If the API was the problem why not just work with the Netrunnerdb to change to lower quality scans or just disable it someway?  Just ramming in a C&D letter seems like a really lazy hamfisted approach by Fantasy Flight.

 

It's probably too late for that, but that would likely be the only way it could survive. The bigger issue for me is the loss of the Netrunner Lookup plugin for chrome, and the deckbuilder apps. They all run off the API.

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Honesty, I am very concerned about this decision. I cannot help but wonder if we are witnessing FFG's first steps on the same road the eventually lead Games Workshop to become the soulless, money-driven abomination that we know today. I am very sad and deeply disappointed in FFG to stab their biggest supporters in the back like this.  :unsure:

Edited by Rince

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Not signed.

 

They should have the rights to do so.  However, it would have been a better move if they were to wait until after they release something of their own.  Doing it now, much like how the WarMachine version occurred is just causing havoc when none is needed.

 

On to other alternatives until they shut those down as well.

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They should have the rights to do so.  However, it would have been a better move if they were to wait until after they release something of their own. 

 

They have the right to do whatever the heck they want. Whether they should is another question...

 

And, FFG did "release" something on their own: they bought CardgameDB a while back. The problem is that NetrunnerDB is leaps and bounds ahead of that site. NetrunnerDB is faster (a lot), better looking, easier to use, and is optimized for mobile devices. So naturally, a lot of people believe this decision is nothing but an attempt to kill off the competition and force everyone to use their own crappy product. Something that a lot of us did not expect from FFG.

Edited by Rince

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SIGNED

NetrunnerDB is a solid site, with precious features and much data stored within and extensively referenced in various communities (Reddit, bgg, etc...).

I understand that copyright issues needs to be solved but, honestly, a whole site takedown is not the right solution.

 

 

By the way, I just gave a try to the new version of CardGameDB today... It's literally unusable with small screens, and it doesn't provide nothing more than NetrunnerDB, while presenting more setbacks in various areas.

 

Seriously, if that is the official deckbuilding tool there much work to do on it.

A few hints:

 - import is only by plain text (export is also on OCTGN format, though), and often it fails with "Data column(s) for axis #0 cannot be of type string". No user readable error messages? Seriously?

 - Information about cost/strength graph must be filtrable by card category: I want to se the strength of my ICEs paired with the cost of ICE rez... Not Ice rez+Asset rez+Operations

 - Maybe I'm not that savvy, but... is there any use for the influence pie chart?

 

Maybe part of your agreement with Alsciende may be to have his consulence on how to improve CardGameDB? ;-)

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I'm signing here because of netrunnerdb in particular, although the general premise of C&D against fan-made sites seems incredibly stupid to me as well. 

 

Here's the thing about CardGameDB: it's completely useless on a mobile device. This is the reason I moved away from CardGameDB back in the day and that reason has remained valid for their remade deckbuilder as well. With my current lifestyle, a deckbuilding site that I can't use on the move to jot down deck ideas, flesh them out and/or make quick tweaks to my existing netspace decks (thus making synch with their meatspace versions possible) has very lmited usefulness to me. At the same time, these are simply features essential for me if I am to remain reasonably active within the game's community. 

 

So, yeah: if you want to shut down all other sites besides CardGameDB, at least make an effort to find out what they have that you don't, and implement it. Otherwise, you're risking actually losing active players, including people like me that actually single-handedly built up a national community from the ground up. 

 

tl;dr: get cardgamedb usable on a mobile device before you assault sites that are already filling that particular need. 

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Signed.  What a horrible idea.  Free marketing, community, making people spend more time thinking about netrunner.  You don't go stabbing an asset like that in the back.  And making everyone angry.  Some people will always complain on the internet, but this is different.  I don't think anyone has FFG's back on this one.

 

I think they do listen to us and this might just be somebody in the legal department who doesn't really know what they're doing.  Score a clone retirement to clear the bad pub guys!

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Signed.

 

I'm not bashing CGDB, but NRDB is a superior app, closer to what I expect from FFG's physical properties, and, again, far more accessible on mobile. Right now, it fits a bill CGDB doesn't, has a better UI, and supports the way I want to play the game.  Please retract the C&D.

 

Thank you.

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Signed. While I understand the position jenteki.net put FFG in, I would hope they would work with netrunnerdb to find do a happy medium. My tablet is currently my primary interwebz device, so cardgamedb is a nogo.

I would encourage all those who feel strongly about this to repost on other forums, as well as contact FFG directly via their contacts page.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_contacto.asp

they even have a phone number on there with office hours. Let them know how disappointed we will be if they start coming after third support that makes their game more accessible to new players and more dynamic and vibrant for those of us who more serious. For fn real.

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I wouldn't really call NDB a community. It's a place where people can create decklists and others can comment on it. This is a community, stimhack is a community,BGG is a community.

 

The problem is the API that allows anyone to insert quality versions of the cards into whatever they please. There are a few apps and browser plugins that use it, but Jinteki was the final straw. If they let NDB keep going, what's to stop someone from building something like Jinteki and hosting it on a server that doesn't care as much about copyright protection? If NDB didn't have the API and kept low rez versions of the cards, they probably wouldn't have had this problem.

A community is exactly what you describe NDB as - a place you go to to comment (talk to) people who share a common interest. 

 

 

I for one am very sad to see this sort of behaviour from a company I liked. 

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I am disappointed - I am a fan of Netrunnerdb and the deckbuilder on that site - chiefly because it supports mobile devices much better than cardgamedb.  I am hopeful negotiations will take place, as opposed to blanket orders.  I can understand concerns over distribution of art - but that was a tiny, nearly useless part of the site, at least for me.

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