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felismachina

Combat Question

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Hi, 

After reading about combat again today i noticed that i am not sure if i do it right.

For example If character make a standard attack with lasgun have +10BS and shooting at character engaged into melee with another one which give penalty of -20 BS so does that mean he got +10-20=-10? In short range it will be +0 or he just got -20 regardless of range and other factors? I just wonder since if i aim first for half action then shoot at short range into melee then i have +10. It feels kinda high for such hard shot. 

Another thing if a character try to shoot while ork tries to chop me with his choppa then i have -20 BS or i take for account that i make standard attack and so on?

Anyway i just curious since guardsman with 30BS while aiming at short range with standard shot have 60 BS so it's easy to hit someone. Too easy imo

 

One more same with shooting at prone target. It says that this have penalty -10BS it's -10 after all previous modifiers or just -10?

I am not sure if i am doing combat right. I always assumed that i just take all modifiers one after another and i get final one before action but now it seems all my players almost never miss.

Edited by felismachina

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Short range is half the range given in the weapons chart, so for las gun it's ~50 m, and I can asure you a 50m shot from an assault rifle is not so hard to do, even for an untrained person, been there done that. Shooting into melee... that's a bit different, this I did not do, and I belive it should be harder at ranges more than 10 m away, maybe houserule it to -10 for every additional 10m over the first.

As for the other part of the question, it all adds up and caps at +/- 60.

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Base accuracy (given a BS of 30 or so, averageish) is here and there. It wildly depends on the various factors and the amount of time spend in aiming. So... if you spend your 5 second round firing only one shot (+10), it's in short range (+10), AND you spend half of your time lining up the shot (+10), yeah you're firing with a 60% chance to hit..... but it's only ever one hit with your lasgun. Say you want more. Semi-auto. Then it's 50/50, IF you aim and don't move. But what if you want to move? Then you've got 40/60.

 

So the accuracy goes from rather high, hitting most of the time, to not hitting most of the time again. Hell, if the range were longer, the totals would be smaller. Aiming isn't always possible (especially full aiming which gives +20). Full-auto is great if you roll well, but gives -10 accuracy.

 

 

 

But regardless... it's to balance things out a little, since in earlier games in the series, you got bonuses for firing more, and more chances to hit, to boot.

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Yeah but thing that bothers me is shooting into and in melee. It's too easy. -20 Penalty is nothing since you can have +20 without even aiming (short range plus standard shot). Now i feel like all the guardsman are snipers. One of my player having 48 base BS plus standard shot plus short range and aim hit an enemy in melee at 58 or 68 at full aim, it is ridiculously high. Looks like guardsmans are on par with space marines when it comes to shooting

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That has been my problem with Only War, it is a combat-focused game that makes it too easy to master combat. Once a player has enough to max out BS he basically hits almost every time. If he has something better than a flashlight, guess what? He will be getting kills every turn. 

 

This game goes from 0-100 real quick, in terms of how lethal combat is. You start out as mooks who can't hit at anything, (hopefully) shooting at enemies who have the same accuracy impediments. Once you get enough XP to max BS, and difficulty ramps up, suddenly it becomes a question of who can one shot the other first.

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48 BS is very high, I'd say at least 2 advancements, and that equals a soldier veteran at shooting. Remember that PCs are not some greenhorns, as said in regiment/character creation sections, when they start the game they have at least 2-3 years of service in PDF or something like that. A total recruit who just joined PDF would propably have BS at around 15-20, so shooting into melee for him would be hmm... 15 - 20 (melee) + 10 (range) + 10 (standard shot) - 20 (no standard issue balls of steel, you get those when you join IG, untill you do, you are to afraid to shoot where your friend is trying to kill someone with a knife) = 0

 

Ok but now back to being serious, unless they are in a grapple it wouldn't be to hard to hit in such a short distance even in melee, it's mostly about timing to find a moment when you see an enemy clearly.

 

Oh and one more thing about snipers, in our game, our team sniper, in an average conditions shoots at long ranges with final BS of 114, so 68 is still not so high.

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From my expierience and i can shoot a bit in real life i would never make that shot.Ok i am not  Let's say we got two people fighting each other, they dodge parry, attack circle around themselfs and a guy is standing 40 m from them which is half lenght of soccer stadium and he hit on almost 70%? it's too high for me. I get that characters are veteran soldiers but still like cpteveros said combat now revolves around who will act first. I guess that most rules in only war like in other 40k system assume that players are on low level but when you hit like 2k-3k exp which is not much considering that space marines have 12k exp you just wreck everything. Anyway my question here is answered and i need to do some house rules :P

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Just looked into DW corebook, and I have to say, PC guards are hard boiled badass normals, not even normal veterans, just compare, basic IG character stats are 2/3 of the basic spays maheen stats, so... yeah, how do you expect them not to be that awsome? :P

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From my expierience and i can shoot a bit in real life i would never make that shot.Ok i am not  Let's say we got two people fighting each other, they dodge parry, attack circle around themselfs and a guy is standing 40 m from them which is half lenght of soccer stadium and he hit on almost 70%? it's too high for me. I get that characters are veteran soldiers but still like cpteveros said combat now revolves around who will act first. I guess that most rules in only war like in other 40k system assume that players are on low level but when you hit like 2k-3k exp which is not much considering that space marines have 12k exp you just wreck everything. Anyway my question here is answered and i need to do some house rules :P

 

Isn't there a chance to hit either party within the melee? Or am I imagining that? Also, I'd assume that if you're aiming, you're taking care to line the shot up that so that if you miss, you're not hitting the friendly in melee. If you're not aiming, well, better hope you don't accidentally hit your friend.

At 40m, or even 100m, the speed of the round is going to cover that distance quickly enough that there should be that much movement between the round's arrival and the trigger pull.

 

 

This is the Guard. Melee should not normally be their first choice. The first choice should be take cover and spray coherent light while screaming for fire support.

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48 BS is very high, I'd say at least 2 advancements, and that equals a soldier veteran at shooting. Remember that PCs are not some greenhorns, as said in regiment/character creation sections, when they start the game they have at least 2-3 years of service in PDF or something like that. A total recruit who just joined PDF would propably have BS at around 15-20, so shooting into melee for him would be hmm... 15 - 20 (melee) + 10 (range) + 10 (standard shot) - 20 (no standard issue balls of steel, you get those when you join IG, untill you do, you are to afraid to shoot where your friend is trying to kill someone with a knife) = 0

 

Ok but now back to being serious, unless they are in a grapple it wouldn't be to hard to hit in such a short distance even in melee, it's mostly about timing to find a moment when you see an enemy clearly.

 

Oh and one more thing about snipers, in our game, our team sniper, in an average conditions shoots at long ranges with final BS of 114, so 68 is still not so high.

 

 

The way stats are rolled and the comparatively cheap cost of upgrading your BS 20 points can quite easily put you at a whopping 42-60 BS, and that isn't even taking into account the bonuses some regimental creation options provide, or the bonuses from combat actions/situations.

Edited by cpteveros

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Sounds like you need to up the difficulty then. In our current campaign, we started facing a lot of grots and Runtherds, then more and more boys, now Kommandos and Nobs, with vehicles sprinkled in. Don't like your characters hitting everytime they pull the trigger? Have then fight in the rain and make all shots -20 to start. 

 

The mechanics of the game are what they are (and most groups have their own homebrew rules to smooth things out), but ultimately, the GM has to know his groups strength and try to keep them on the edge of being challenged. For me that means rolling in some harder xenos or Chaos stuff anytime my players fight regular guardsmen type enemies. 

 

 

As for shooting into Melee. I've been toying with a, hitting the player/comrade in combat on a doubles roll. 10% chance to dink your own guy, can't decide if that is too brutal....I'd like to force guys to decide "do I charge that guy and help" or "Take my chance and gib that thing he is fighting"

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