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Noelyuk

The Great WFRP3 Conversion Project

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With the recent news that WFRP3 is no longer to be supported I've been thinking about the future of WFRP3. From an official point of view the future is bleak but unofficially it doesn't have to be. Investing in the WFRP3 system (particularly if you're a completist like me) is no small investment. I've spent a small fortune on the system and all official extensions but after they've all been played through. What then? 

 

With the wealth of 1st and 2nd edition adventure material out there both official and fan made the only recourse it seems is to delve deep into the back catalogue and convert your own 1st and 2nd edition scenarios. And I know that many people on here already started do just that. 

 

But this got me thinking. It's a bit of a waste of resources and manpower for everybody to be doing their own conversions. 100s of people converting The Oldenhaller Contract or whatever makes no sense. So I was wondering whether there might some value in a collective of people sharing. 

 

I realise that there is copyright and protection of intellectual property at work so I'm not talking about wholesale sharing of PDF scenarios but surely there can be little harm in me for example sharing work I've done on converting say all the stat blocks of one scenario with a collective while someone else shares the stat blocks and skills for the adventures they've created. 

 

So with that in mind I'm suggesting the forming of the The Great WFRP3 Conversion Project. 

 

But what do the rest of you think? Does this break any rules? Is there any mileage in it?

Edited by Noelyuk

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It would be helpful and more convenient if resources converted to 3ed were housed in one area. Great idea!

 

I have very little to contribute at this point but I am generating 3ed stats for both "Ill Tidings" found at the end of the 2ed Bretonnia Sourcebook and the 2ed adventure book "Barony of the Damned."

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I agree that sharing conversion material is a great idea.  More to the point, sharing any and everything is a good idea, I would not get stuck on it having to be a conversion.

 

Scenarios (if official) are tricky as most you can do is "companion" not "standalone" style, and I find a "really good conversion" that "takes advantage of the system" is more than "straight up", often a "reinterpretation" of the original.  Well that and fact I can never leave well enough alone and must meddle with anything I use.

 

A major other area that I would hope Liber Fantica might do (it seems stalled at the moment) is provide extended spell and blessing lists for the orders and faiths that were not covered in published material and pods.  The idea the line is "complete" was a bit false when "it's complete for Bright Wizards and Shallyans but not for every school of magic or faith".

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All of the uncovered spell/blessing lists are in the POD forums.  Already done :)

 

The conversion doc that I wrote up for LF (not published; incomplete) is pretty straight forward as the editions are so incredibly similar in regards to careers, races, skill checks and monsters.  The only thing that's new is 3e's special actions..and so conversion there doesn't really mater.

 

I recently converted a 2e scenario (or perhaps it was 1e..anyways, it's in the scenario contest thread).

 

Best,

 

jh

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I take the point XorA that many people just choose to convert on the fly. But I suspect that's because for the most part 3rd party conversions are not easily available so faced with the choice of doing time consuming conversions themselves they'll simply choose to 'do it on the fly' to save time. But if the resources were there already done...would they use them? I think so.

 

Also being able to convert 'on the fly' in this way assumes a certain familiarity with the rules (in all its various editions) which many people and certainly myself simply don't have. The freedom to be able to 'wing it' usually comes from being conversant with the way things should be in order to deviate. For me as a GM I want the mechanics to do with dice rolls etc by and large written down. My improv will come from interpreting boons, banes, chaos stars etc. But only if i'm not also struggling with the mathematics involved in converting stats in my head as well. 

 

When I first played WFRP I was given the short straw to GM because noone else in my group of friends had the patience to learn the mechanics of the game. The mathematics involved in the rooftop chase in the Oldenhaller Contract for example almost put me off. I'd certainly hate to have to interpret that 'on the fly' as well as everything else i'd have to juggle as a fairly inexperienced GM. 

 

While Emirikols conversion doc is very helpful. As a beginner I'd like more of an idea of exactly how more experienced GM's like Valvorik have interpreted the fairly numeric data of 1st edition into 3rd edition.  At least that's my hope.

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Well, I just ran through the first edition Enemy Within, and did most or all on the fly. Certainly I'd read through the adventures, and picked out which creature cards to use for various encounters, both social and combat. If the players were to meet a noble in a social encounter, I'd pick a creature card that seemed to correspond well. If there was a combat, I'd pick out the creature cards fitting what they encountered.

 

Regardin specific scenes, such as chases over rooftops, I prepared a bit in advance, but I just thought.

What seems appropriate to roll here? What will make the encounter fun/exciting/memorable? Can I use any location cards?

 

So to be honest I'd probably not use converted stat blocks if I ran a 1st or 2nd edition scenario. I'd rather use the provided creature cards from 3ed to get my stats.

But for someone who have not GMed 3ed much it might help. :)

Edited by k7e9

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Noelyuk

 

It seems to me what you are really after is some kind of "stat conversion formula" more than any need to "convert adventures". If you want that, just look at the basics of how a given system relates to another. Take WFRP 3rd ed. Everything runs off stat's (basically, then training is overlayed on it) that are capped at 6 for PC's for heroic reasons, but more generally at 5. If you bear that in mind, and look at say a D&D character, what you can do is use their given stats to change them into WFRP by using a division factor of 4.

 

D&D stat              3RD ed stat

STR: 16               STR: 4

DEX: 12               AGI: 3

CON: 12               TOU: 3

WIS:  13               WIL: 4

INT: 8                   INT: 2

CHA: 9                 FEL: 3

 

If these seem a "bit high", you could always take 2 from the D&D stat in order to raise your threshold number a bit OR round it to the closest full number (up or down). Using the D&D stats above that would then change the conversion to STR: 4 AGI: 3 TOU: 3 WIL 3 INT: 2 FEL 2.

 

As for Skill training, Well, 20 levels, 3 Tiers of training then mastery, a simple division of 6 seems good to me. with the leftover 2 at lvls 19-20 being mastery. This can even work with WS/BS/magic skills, as you just sub in Base attack bonus or caster level for skill level.

 

As for feats, well, just convert them to skill cards.

 

This is really rough, but when you play more systems, you will get a feel for how they convert. Percentile?? 20 to 1 conversion is good, D10, 2 to 1, D6, almost a direct conversion. All you need to do is break down the basic math in comparison and fiddle a little bit

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Well...yes and no Carcosa. 

 

What I really want is for Fantasy Flight to continue to produce new modules or convert the best of the ones already in existence in 1st and 2nd edition format to 3rd edition. Just as they have done with Enemy Within. Sadly that is never going to happen. 

 

The next best thing though would be a fan made body of converted stats and/or interpreted skill checks and dice rolls to mould those old scenarios into 3rd edition. 

 

Sharing those 'stat conversion formulae' would be one part of it. And certainly for someone starting from scratch all those things including the excel files which are circulating to cross reference skills and so on. But it's still time consuming. And makes little or no sense to me for everyone who wants a conversion to do their own. I'm not lazy. I'm just all for not reinventing the wheel. I've had a go at converting a couple of encounters in scenarios from 1st to 3rd and while I can plow through the numbers and do it. It's a grind. And not only that. At the end of it. I suspect that someone more familiar with the systems could do it not only much easier but better. Some of the best conversions i've seen have been where the new version not only straight converts monster stats but offers a conversion that takes into account the new dice pool and gives GM notes on how to read the dice. Sure veteran GM's will already have their own ideas on how to interpret the stats but inexperienced ones may not. And even experienced GM's can learn from each other.

 

That's why I think there's some mileage in that kind of stuff being shared. Experienced GM's giving their interpretations of conversions. And an initiative which if shared could fairly soon see most of the old edition having nice shiny new interpretations of old classics. A utopia yes but a fairly easily achievable one I think. 

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I agree that conversion on the fly seems to work very well b/c the systems are so darned close.  Essentially everything converts straight up.  I say this all the time, a gor in 2e is the same as a gor in 3e.   That said though, it assumes that a GM will have some familiarity with previous editions..sure it's easy to convert when you know the rules for the other editions :)

 

The primary thing that an unfamiliar GM would be facing is Skill Check Difficulty Ratings.  That's the only thing you need a chart for if you're converting on the fly and you are obsessed with staying as close to the original stat as possible (otherwise relax a little and go with your gut!)

 

The conversions that I and others have done is more just for the fun of it and to help introduce other people to our favorite scenarios and supplements who would otherwise pass them over because "they're not converted."

 

 

jh

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One thing to watch out for is that starting characters are generally slightly more powerful in 3rd edition than beginning characters in  2nd edition and definately in 1st, particularly in combat.

Edited by ragnar63

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Noelyuk.

 

What adventure do you want converted?

 

Stories, insofar as their elements go don't really change, stat blocks just exist to give a reference to the Ref. Like Emrikol said, an orc is an orc is an orc.

 

What are you really after here? 

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I remember doing some heavy converting for a couple of scenarios. For example "There is no such thing as Skaven". I am not sure if it really added much. I made rules for setting up trackers and stuff but in the end I find my sessions work better when I just narrate stuff instead of using lots of physical trackers.

However, what I found added a bit to the game and was handy to have ahead of time was result tables for specific rolls. For example, having a result table for charming a specific NPC so you do not have to come up with a result on the fly.

In addition, I have found it is always good to make some notes about what to use Chaos Stars for. I notice in sessions where I mostly improvise I am often a bit stumped when someone rolls a chaos star on a successful roll. It is always nice to have scribbled down some thematic effects that they can trigger.

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Maybe it’s the teacher in me. But in my profession I am always conscious of teaching something that all my students can access. Not just the high fliers, or those who practice lots. 


 


In a similar way I think with the greatest of respect. Many of you more experienced GM’s are guilty of saying. Converting? “It’s easy for me to do so why can’t you do it?” Firstly not everyone learns in the same way. What you find easy and can do in your head and on the fly, others including myself may need spelling out and or writing down. And even if everyone could spend the time? Where’s the sense in each individual doing their own conversion?


 


There are several people out there such as Emirikol among others who have taken the time to convert and even gone to the trouble of producing excel tables to help those who wish to do conversions. This says that there is a need for it and people want to convert the 1st and 2nd edition back catalogue. I’m merely advocating going one step further and getting those people who have gone to the time and effort to convert, to share it in exchange for receiving ready made conversions from others.


 


If it was as easy as simply doing a few quick calculations in your head and hey presto you’ve got a 3rd edition product. Then what was the 3rd Edition Enemy Within product all about? Why would people buy a new 3rd edition if they could pick up older editions and do a few sums and simply play it with the new rules? It wasn’t of course. It has been reinvented if you like for 3rd and I suspect similar fan made creative processes have taken place all over the country from individuals that only the GM and his small group are ever going to get the benefit of. I think that’s a shame.


 


A few of the earlier posts in this thread agree it’s a good idea and would be happy to share what they have already done, be it a lot or a little, whether finished or work in progress. So far just from this thread alone we have Eradico  - “…generating 3ed stats for both "Ill Tidings found at the end of the 2ed Bretonnia Sourcebook and the 2ed adventure book "Barony of the Damned.” Glorian - “already made a conversion for the First doomstones Adventure with some of third editions mechanics.” and Ralzar who said “I remember doing some heavy converting for a couple of scenarios. For example "There is no such thing as Skaven”. That’s just for starters, not to mention the kind of conversions that Valvorik likes which take advantage of the system and are a reinterpretation of the original. 


 


In my opinion sharing that stuff would be gold.


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Ralzar

 

I agree and that result specific stuff (e.g. a result specific table for NPCs) is the kind of stuff i'm talking about. Here's a couple of examples taken from conversions i've seen which are freely available:
 

This is an extract from 2nd ed - Oldenhaller Contract: 

 

The first leap is 2 yards, with a run-up of 3 and a half yards. This is a standing leap as there is an insufficient run up. Bertoldo's leap will be his Move plus his strength bonus in Yards, reduced by one for each degree of failure on a Strength test, and then halved. As his Move plus his strength bonus is equal to 7, he will make the leap unless he fails his strength test by than 4 degrees of failure or more (as 7-4 halved is under 2.) However, as there is almost the full run up, this test is Very Easy  with a +30% bonus, meaning that Bertoldo cannot fail to make this leap.

 

It might just be me but the above makes my head swim and certainly doesn't suggest itself as something I could easily convert on the fly. 

 

Whereas when it's clearly laid out for me as in this 3rd edition interpretation:

 

A: 2 yards leap, run-up of 3 yards: 

Easy (1d) Athletics (St) check + 2 FORTUNE. If failed, the PC can attempt a Hard (3d) Coordination (Ag) check to catch a ledge or falls 5 yards onto the street below and take a Average (2d) hit

 

 

And then there's this bit of the same 3rd edition conversion. Regarding Common Knowledge in Nuln and how to GM players asking for info from NPCs:
 

The following information can be gleaned about the city and her inhabitants. A successful 

Easy (1d) Folklore check reveals the following:

Basic (+1 per SUCCESS) - Basic rumors (And a list of mundane rumours follow)

Special (BOON or COMET ) - Special rumours (And a list of more juicy rumours follow).

 

There are probably much better examples but it's this kind of stuff I think that while experienced veteran GMs might instinctively know. Us lesser mortals could learn a thing or two from.

 

Of course the story is the same across editions and an Orc is an Orc whatever the edition. And yes creatures that already have action cards for them are already taken care of, but what about converted stats for NPCs, suggestions about how to update the skill rolls for 3rd ed (esp in terms of difficulty) and perhaps even some suggestions as to how to interpret dice rolls (particularly boons, banes, comets, chaos etc.). That's what I'm talking about.

Edited by Noelyuk

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NPCs can be an issue for conversion if they are combatants.  Even if they aren't combatants, I typically just use the NPC stat blocks from the creature guide and throw on a Hero's Call template.

 

Now that I'm a player again in Eradico's game, I realized that I make my opponents and checks a bit tougher than the standard smiley-devil25.gif

 

 

If you need help making a converter for NPCs, my randomized character generator might be of help. You could convert some of the concepts/coding used there and simply make a plug and play conversion for stats in 2e:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/167876/WFRP%20STUFF/Random%20WFRP%20character%20generator/WFRP3%20Random%20Character%20Generator%202.8.xlsx

 

..and here's the adventure generator I did:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/167876/WFRP%20STUFF/Random%20WFRP3%20Adventure%20Generator/Random%20WFRP3%20Adventure%20Output%201.6.xlsx

Edited by Emirikol

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Yes Emirikol your reputation as being a merciless GM precedes you :)

As for those excel files while I can't get full functionality on them on my Mac (minor things like F9 doesn't work) even so they are fabulous. You must have spent a great deal of time doing them. Great stuff and thanks for sharing.

Edited by Noelyuk

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Thought i'd give a concrete example of another thing i've been struggling with when attempting a conversion. 

 

So i'm in the middle of trying to convert the solo adventure 'Night of Mystery' to WFPR3 from a 2nd ed conversion that I believe you did Emirikol. I know it may not be the best since it's a solo adventure but I thought it'd be fun to do in order to play myself and rehearse some of the mechanics. I've actually entered this into a mod (not finished yet obviously) within Fantasy Grounds (just for fun). 

 

Anyway from the creatures listed the majority are footpads, bandits and the like and so it's easy to find Basic NPC thug stats and fiddle with them accordingly. But one of the creatures listed is Ghoul. For the 3rd Ed I can only find Crypt Ghoul and Bound Ghoul. Have gone with Crypt Ghoul but I seem to recall reading that actually this is a different and much larger creature than the regular ghoul. In any case i've added a couple of actions such as A Bone to Pick and No Escape, No Hope and so far so good. In the ghoul description it also mentions a poison attack. What would be a closest equivalent in WFRP3?

 

And finally there's a Chaos Warrior (pretty much the final adversary) in the adventure. His stats are listed thus:

 

35n66uq.jpg

 

Whereas the default stats in 3rd for the Chaos Warrior are

 

2qv6zjk.jpg

 

The 3rd ed obviously seems much tougher, not to mention i'm wondering what are equivalent skills

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In regards to the Crypt Ghoul, I would add the Hero Template from Hero's Call.  For poison, use the giant spider poison.

 

RE: Equivalent skills, 1e and 2e had those obscenely long lists of skills that almost every game system since 2008 have moved away from.  You will notice that most of them have been changed from that list to "specializations", so that's the best way to take care of stuff like that.  Give them a "trained" and bonus white for anything listed.  

 

 

jh

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Yeah Padre Boniface

 

It's been converted for Fantasy Grounds for 3rd edition and there's a ready made mod for it. Even if you don't normally use FG you could download the demo and fire up the mod and have all the converted stats to hand. PM me your email address and I can send you the Oldenhaller Mod if you are struggling to get find it.

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Thank you Noelyuk.  I have to admit that I was too lasy to start learning Fantasy Grounds and GM'd the converted the adventure on the fly. I think the main issue is the insertion of stress/fatigue and disease checks into this adventure as I seemed to frequently forget about that. The rest was not that problematic though ;)

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