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FoeHammer618

Banning Ogryn

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I realized something on last game. While OW gives you lot of options to make your character most of them don't fit. Why? From narrative point of viev. Why would inflitration regiment have priest? Or tank crew had ogryn? Now i know that each regiment should have banned classes that will never be part of it. It makes more sense that way. So if players take specific regiment type tell them what classes they can play and what are banned. Sure core rulebook give you all options but not all should be permitted.

Every regiment has at least one priest they are there to give spiritual guidance, and insure they do not falter in battle, they can help with everything from tactical combat, to being a extra pare of hands to help wounded, to there main rule of guiding there flock to the light of the emperor.   Priests in the imperial guard can even be seen on the front line with soldiers, shouting glory and filling there hearts with courage to face the horrors that they see. 

 

The following is taken from " http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Guard"

"Horrorsuntold bedevil the soldiers of the Imperial Guard, many of whom will barely have made peace with the concept of spaceflight before they are faced by the unspeakable heresy of the alien or the Traitor. Mutation and abomination proliferate while men are slain in graphic and grisly fashion before the eyes of their horrified comrades. Often, the soldiers of the Imperial Guard must do their duty upon battlefields the mere spectacle of which may be so apocalyptic as to shake the reason of the bravest individual. In such circumstances, blind faith can prove to be potent armour for a man's soul.

For this reason, the Ministorum, also known colloquially as the Ecclesiarchy, maintains a considerable presence amongst the ranks of the Imperial Guard. Whether orating from the laudhailer-laden pulpit of a shrine-deck, or from atop piled ration crates in a hastily cleared corner of the soldiers' mess, Ministorum clergy have a huge impact upon the confidence and courage of their allotted flock. At the commencement of a campaign, most Guardsmen have been marched amongst thousands into the close-packed hold of a starship, surrounded by strange and of ten frightening sights and sounds. Their destination a tangle of mystery and rumour, their homes and families never to be seen again, such men find a refuge in the familiarity of Imperial scripture. Many newly founded regiments will cling to their religion like a drowning man clings to driftwood; it is the duty of the Ministorum to shape this fervour into something that high command can use"

 

While a tank crew would most likely not have a ogryn it is perfectly reasonable to have a few in a armoured regiment as brute muscle to help move ammunition when a loader sentential variant is not around and proved close support when required. Orgryns are often used as body guards to Commissars and officers  . My group did a fun oneshot where we were ogryn droop troopers , and where thrown out of valks, ageist our will.  The ogryn could be the tanks dedicated ammo runner, who cares if a abhuman dies? he is just there to get ammo, and when he can not, he can protect the tank from hostile infantry . While it is a bit more of a strench it would be no reason to ban a player from playing that class.

 

 

The question would be what is the narrative for these to be in the squad, for the priest maybe he or she is concerned with the squad performance in battle, or is thrilled with there performance but has decided to keep close watch as there success might be influenced by unholy powers, of course they might just be great soldiers of the Emperor or there is something foul at play.

 

If a commissar would go into the front  with a squad and the regiment ,why would a priest not ? do not forget a priest packs a shotgun, and most of the time knows how to use it. They are warriors to you know.

 

 

Sorry to insult other gms, but I find it very silly and ignorant , that you would not let your players play a class, because you can not see it fitting 100% . The Imperial guard while can be compared to a normal military organisation is not the same.  

 

Specialist classes are not hard to justify , there is no reason you should not allow a player to use them, you just have to adept a little bit .

 

 

Yeah but remeber that we are talking about players which probably are in one squad. So now how not silly GM explain what is priest doing in one infiltration squad all the time? Line infantry etc sure but recon not so much. Or what do ogryn in a tank? Ok we can always make them marching but it will leave one player outside of team and i don't think it's fun for that particular player to be third wheel all the time. Personally i find ogryn drop troopers silly. It's not ignorance to ban something it's common sense to not include class or character that will be always outsider, do not fit in concept or campaing. If someone like playing ogryns and sitting half the adventure because "it's dark in there" then be my guest. IMO all regiments have priest, commisars, tech priest but they don't run with one squad all the time since they have other duties.

 

Btw your example from wikia make perfect sense in TT but not so much in rpg since you can be something more than line infantry or armoured regiment fighting on the front line.

Edited by felismachina

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A priest would be more likely to be joint to a infiltration squad or Commissar for that matter, as they are more likely to twisted by the horrors of war.

 

During down time the priest and commissar - priestess should be given and told to do the duties of there officer. In only war the squad control by the players tends to often end up being the elite of the regiment. 

 

In larger battles the priest commissars and techpriests may-not be with the squad next to them, they may be 50 - 100 meters back  many scenes in no surrender Have large battles, so these specialist characters can be in the same scene and interact with the squad but have a slightly different point of view to running up to the enemy and hitting them with a stick .

 

One can not say these characters have no place in the concept of a campaign other wise they would not be in the 40k uni at all.

 

Theses characters Should be an outsider to a point, that is the duty of there job.  One can make similar arguments of why classes in dark heresy should not be played, or rogue trader. 

 

As a example I am running a Only war game at the moment with drop troopers. They have a priest with in there ranks. I let the priest do other things and bring up the point constantly that the Priest has other dutys and other people to see on the battle field . 

 

In anther group I have a Commissar and again In wider battles I bring up the point that this squad is faltering or that squad needs a heroic speak.

 

I also ask these people who play the specialists why they are following this squad in particular. This helps fill in the blanks.

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A priest would be more likely to be joint to a infiltration squad or Commissar for that matter, as they are more likely to twisted by the horrors of war.

 

During down time the priest and commissar - priestess should be given and told to do the duties of there officer. In only war the squad control by the players tends to often end up being the elite of the regiment. 

 

In larger battles the priest commissars and techpriests may-not be with the squad next to them, they may be 50 - 100 meters back  many scenes in no surrender Have large battles, so these specialist characters can be in the same scene and interact with the squad but have a slightly different point of view to running up to the enemy and hitting them with a stick .

 

One can not say these characters have no place in the concept of a campaign other wise they would not be in the 40k uni at all.

 

Theses characters Should be an outsider to a point, that is the duty of there job.  One can make similar arguments of why classes in dark heresy should not be played, or rogue trader. 

 

As a example I am running a Only war game at the moment with drop troopers. They have a priest with in there ranks. I let the priest do other things and bring up the point constantly that the Priest has other dutys and other people to see on the battle field . 

 

In anther group I have a Commissar and again In wider battles I bring up the point that this squad is faltering or that squad needs a heroic speak.

 

I also ask these people who play the specialists why they are following this squad in particular. This helps fill in the blanks.

 

I disagree. While sure some campiangs are perfectly good to have ogryn, priest etc. like No Surrender you mentioned some will not.  Dark Heresy had lots of classes like sororitas and grey knight for example and fact that they were in the book don't make them fit in all campaing types.

 

As for examples i was running OW Campaing when player squad was sent to investigate some ruins of abandoned hive on vibrius and i think that in this kind of campaing when most adventures take players underground ogryns would not fit. Another one i was playing when players where from frontier world in koronus expanse where ogryns was not present at all so would it make sense that one of the players will have ogryn character? And last example, players where from feral world which was rediscovered by imperium a few years ago before regiment was created, where admech was not existent. Does it make sense to have tech priest in guerilla regiment? Well if you insist sure there can one or two but in players squad? Not so much.

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In your last example, the tech-priest wouldn't be from the feral world, but from somewhere else, and one of several attached to the feral regiment to handle interactions with technology and to ensure that the feral worlders don't mishandle/disrespect the technologies they will encounter that are brand new to their experience. His job will be to educate them on the proper ways of interacting with the technologies they will encounter that they are allowed to interact with (ie, appropriate care for a lasgun, how not to vent themselves aboard transport ships) and to care for the technological artifacts they are assigned (communications gear, most weapons, any vehicles, etc). And, of course, to demand and enforce censure for troops mishandling/disrespecting technology.

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In your last example, the tech-priest wouldn't be from the feral world, but from somewhere else, and one of several attached to the feral regiment to handle interactions with technology and to ensure that the feral worlders don't mishandle/disrespect the technologies they will encounter that are brand new to their experience. His job will be to educate them on the proper ways of interacting with the technologies they will encounter that they are allowed to interact with (ie, appropriate care for a lasgun, how not to vent themselves aboard transport ships) and to care for the technological artifacts they are assigned (communications gear, most weapons, any vehicles, etc). And, of course, to demand and enforce censure for troops mishandling/disrespecting technology.

 

You are right. But If i they would want players to be from somewhere different they should create additional origins options. Why would tech priest in feral world regiment be wary of machine spirits? As for tech priest sent from high command to educate guardsman i totally agree with your point but i just would like to that tech priest in that regiment would be npc. In my opinion and with how the rules work it would be strange to one of characters to have tech priest.

 

It's more fun to have only guardsman in team and i like the idea that squad is mostly normal guardsman they can play tech priests all they want in RT or DH ;) And my opinion still stands that sometimes one character don't fit with the rest or regiment type due to regiment role. Of course some people will play ogryn drop troopers or priest in tanks if it's fun for them why not. But for me it's illogical to have such roles in that kind of millitary formation. Of course we are talking about squad roles.

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Another thing to consider is this: if an abhuman strain isn't part of the regiment's home world, why would they be present at regimental creation? I know that sometimes Ratlings are attached to military formations, but certainly at the very lowest the platoon level and not lower. Why should the squad of (usually) grunts be constantly followed by the platoon's only sniper, and not the command squad? Why would your recon squad have an Ogryn attached, or why would a recon regiment have any to begin with? 

 

The idea being that these abhumans are relatively uncommon, and have to be brought in from abhuman planets, to be attached to whatever regiment they are sent to; assuming they don't form their own abhuman regiments to begin with.

 

And that is just the abhumans, let alone the other specialists.

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Another thing to consider is this: if an abhuman strain isn't part of the regiment's home world, why would they be present at regimental creation? I know that sometimes Ratlings are attached to military formations, but certainly at the very lowest the platoon level and not lower. Why should the squad of (usually) grunts be constantly followed by the platoon's only sniper, and not the command squad? Why would your recon squad have an Ogryn attached, or why would a recon regiment have any to begin with? 

 

The idea being that these abhumans are relatively uncommon, and have to be brought in from abhuman planets, to be attached to whatever regiment they are sent to; assuming they don't form their own abhuman regiments to begin with.

 

And that is just the abhumans, let alone the other specialists.

 

Abhumans not being present on the homeworld or at least in the same star system is probably the best argument for not having them. That said, the Munitorum won't trust them to form their own regiments, because while they are genetically stable, they're still abhumans - stable mutants. They're going to have all purestrain human officers, and preferably be blended into other regiments.

Probably most regiments have no abhumans attached to them.

 

As far as the other specialists ... Storm Troopers, in the fluff, are all from the Schola Progena, trained together as a unit and stay together until there aren't enough of them left to function as a unit - what happens to the surviving storm troopers after there aren't enough of them left is not made clear, so far as I know. And the Storm Troopers that the Guard gets are the ones who didn't make the cut for direct induction into the Inquisition's Stormtrooper corps. Schola Progena can be and often are established pretty much anywhere.

Clerics ... in most regiments, there will be at least a few, but they're going to have duties beyond just the squad that they are/have been attached to or follow around most of the time.

Commissars are probably usually not from the same homeworld as the rest of the regiment, but there will be at least one, and they will have duties beyond just the squad or unit they attach themselves to/follow around. Player Commissars are best of being the regiment's junior Commissar or one of them, depending on how many Commissars the regiment has.

Tech-priests ... depends on the homeworld as to whether or not they're actually natives, but then again, every Regiment will have at least a few to tend to the technology and gear, and some will have more, and they will most assuredly have responsibilities beyond just the squad they've decided to follow for whatever reason.

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The problem from a fluff perspective is only a problem is you assume the characters are all part of the same squad, which isn't necessary at all and in fact actually creates problems in a number of regiment builds, like a tank company where you have more than 5 players (most OW war games I have played have had 8-9 PCs btw) and not everyone wants to crew the tank/wants to have their own role. Its a really easy fix just to assume they are all part of the same regiment, or alternatively that the regiment is understrength and standard squad composition has gone. There are loads of perfectly valid fluff reasons to include these characters, and I personally wouldn't play in an OW game with a GM who told a large group we had to 'double up' on classes.

Having said that there are loads of fluff reasons not to allow certain abhuman strains if that's how you want to roll with it, however...

From a balance POV, I have personally made a Heavy Weapons Specialist that was nearly as strong, tough and hard to kill as an ogryn (swap to brawler on the second advance tier for specialisation, its not hard) who was able to RAW flip a tank with his bare hands, and withstood being shot by a Valkyrie Missle barrage without going into criticals ( Actual Scene: GM "The Valkyrie aims at you", Me: "I give the pilot the finger and smile"). All that without the inherent drawbacks that come from actually being an Ogryn.

 

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A priest would be more likely to be joint to a infiltration squad or Commissar for that matter, as they are more likely to twisted by the horrors of war.

 

During down time the priest and commissar - priestess should be given and told to do the duties of there officer. In only war the squad control by the players tends to often end up being the elite of the regiment. 

 

In larger battles the priest commissars and techpriests may-not be with the squad next to them, they may be 50 - 100 meters back  many scenes in no surrender Have large battles, so these specialist characters can be in the same scene and interact with the squad but have a slightly different point of view to running up to the enemy and hitting them with a stick .

 

One can not say these characters have no place in the concept of a campaign other wise they would not be in the 40k uni at all.

 

Theses characters Should be an outsider to a point, that is the duty of there job.  One can make similar arguments of why classes in dark heresy should not be played, or rogue trader. 

 

As a example I am running a Only war game at the moment with drop troopers. They have a priest with in there ranks. I let the priest do other things and bring up the point constantly that the Priest has other dutys and other people to see on the battle field . 

 

In anther group I have a Commissar and again In wider battles I bring up the point that this squad is faltering or that squad needs a heroic speak.

 

I also ask these people who play the specialists why they are following this squad in particular. This helps fill in the blanks.

 

I disagree. While sure some campiangs are perfectly good to have ogryn, priest etc. like No Surrender you mentioned some will not.  Dark Heresy had lots of classes like sororitas and grey knight for example and fact that they were in the book don't make them fit in all campaing types.

 

As for examples i was running OW Campaing when player squad was sent to investigate some ruins of abandoned hive on vibrius and i think that in this kind of campaing when most adventures take players underground ogryns would not fit. Another one i was playing when players where from frontier world in koronus expanse where ogryns was not present at all so would it make sense that one of the players will have ogryn character? And last example, players where from feral world which was rediscovered by imperium a few years ago before regiment was created, where admech was not existent. Does it make sense to have tech priest in guerilla regiment? Well if you insist sure there can one or two but in players squad? Not so much.

 

Except that the Grey Knight (a Space Marine) and the Battle Sisters were tacked on later, and kind of badly, in DH; they aren't "typical" classes. It isn't too common, that I know of, to have any "regular" occupation be "out of place" in an Inquisitor's unit; certainly, you can list specific Inquisitors (Puritan Ordo Hereticus) or missions, but they all, for the most part, fit in with it. IMO, the biggest problem with the Specialists in this game is the conception of some, right or not, that this is just supposed to be a game of grunts, nameless soldiers with nothing but their adamantium balls and the Commissar's bolt pistol going up against the worst the universe has to throw at Mankind, intent on its extermination. None of the other games are presented with this emphasis, and I'm not even sure I believe Only War is, to some extent, but the IG can field squads of troops, and those squads can be joined by Priests, Psykers, Commissars, and Tech-Priests, if the TT player feels like it (usually in an effort to give their Specialist more Wounds), so this game says "yes you can." Maybe you think this is the 40k game not meant for special sowflakes, or "other" kinds of characters, but the game is presented to have both, and once you are Veterans, some of it doesn't even seem hard to grasp. Ogryns and Ratlings aren't as easy to fit in, using my cutch of the TT, but they don't feel anymore out of place to me then the Inquisitor's retinue Sniper (NOT the Vindicare!), or the Astartes Assault Marine, each in a squad of otherwise ranged attackers, who work as a unit.

 

I, for one, don't have any problem with any of the classes in Only War, regarding their use in a squad. Certainly, some don't fit as cleanly into everything super-smooth, but I'd never say "NO Psykers! NO Priests! NO Mechanincus! Only grunts." I could have as much trouble lumping an Operator into a squad, sometimes, with my interpretation of what an Operator does. Oh well, to each their own, I suppose. So long as the rule of fun is followed, and if you are going to limit things, letting the players know ahead of time, then that's fine.

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In my game there was an Ogryn Character, and there was a Techpriest character, within the same organisation.

As it turned out, the Ogryn wasn't nearly as hideously overpowered as the Techpriest, having only half the damage reduction, and lacking the 2d10 + 14 instagib punch that the Servo Arm brings into the equation.

From a balancing perspective, while Ogryns -can- get out of hand, I genuinely believe there're much worse mixes out there.

From a fluff perspective, it's reasonably to just make **** up. The wonderful thing about the "40k Canon" is that it's so murky that it allows everyone to do their own little things.

For the most part there really isn't one right or wrong answer.

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The problem from a fluff perspective is only a problem is you assume the characters are all part of the same squad, which isn't necessary at all and in fact actually creates problems in a number of regiment builds, like a tank company where you have more than 5 players (most OW war games I have played have had 8-9 PCs btw) and not everyone wants to crew the tank/wants to have their own role. Its a really easy fix just to assume they are all part of the same regiment, or alternatively that the regiment is understrength and standard squad composition has gone. There are loads of perfectly valid fluff reasons to include these characters, and I personally wouldn't play in an OW game with a GM who told a large group we had to 'double up' on classes.

Having said that there are loads of fluff reasons not to allow certain abhuman strains if that's how you want to roll with it, however...

From a balance POV, I have personally made a Heavy Weapons Specialist that was nearly as strong, tough and hard to kill as an ogryn (swap to brawler on the second advance tier for specialisation, its not hard) who was able to RAW flip a tank with his bare hands, and withstood being shot by a Valkyrie Missle barrage without going into criticals ( Actual Scene: GM "The Valkyrie aims at you", Me: "I give the pilot the finger and smile"). All that without the inherent drawbacks that come from actually being an Ogryn.

 

You forgot being ontop of a imperial knight while it was in a fire, going one on one with a Ork warboss,  being throne of a forts wall, engaging in dark elder combat, and being under the influence of a magical sock :P

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The problem from a fluff perspective is only a problem is you assume the characters are all part of the same squad, which isn't necessary at all and in fact actually creates problems in a number of regiment builds, like a tank company where you have more than 5 players (most OW war games I have played have had 8-9 PCs btw) and not everyone wants to crew the tank/wants to have their own role. Its a really easy fix just to assume they are all part of the same regiment, or alternatively that the regiment is understrength and standard squad composition has gone. There are loads of perfectly valid fluff reasons to include these characters, and I personally wouldn't play in an OW game with a GM who told a large group we had to 'double up' on classes.

Having said that there are loads of fluff reasons not to allow certain abhuman strains if that's how you want to roll with it, however...

From a balance POV, I have personally made a Heavy Weapons Specialist that was nearly as strong, tough and hard to kill as an ogryn (swap to brawler on the second advance tier for specialisation, its not hard) who was able to RAW flip a tank with his bare hands, and withstood being shot by a Valkyrie Missle barrage without going into criticals ( Actual Scene: GM "The Valkyrie aims at you", Me: "I give the pilot the finger and smile"). All that without the inherent drawbacks that come from actually being an Ogryn.

 

You forgot being ontop of a imperial knight while it was in a fire, going one on one with a Ork warboss,  being throne of a forts wall, engaging in dark elder combat, and being under the influence of a magical sock :P

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Most specialist classes are easy to justify in a squad. For the aforementioned priest, for example, there's even a bit in the IG Codex about there being an Imperial decree about how each and every single regiment must be accompanied by at least one Confessor. And these guys are "warrior priests" who, as the TT armies show, do not hold back and keep safe in the camp, but actually go out with the troops to assault enemy positions.

 

Ogryns and Storm Troopers are way trickier, although this is a mainly a question of background interpretation, as FFG does actually deliver an explanation for their presence - it just conflicts with GW's original material, which might confuse some people due to their expectations. However, if in doubt, you could always just say the character is a survivor whose own unit got killed off, and he hangs around with your boys/gals until they can get back to friendly lines (where they will of course discover that evacuation and reassignment is "temporarily" impossible *cough*).

 

Ogryns in particular are rather simple-minded, and there is codex fluff about them growing "fiercely protective" of "da little 'unz" once they make friends with a trooper. ;)

 

Except that the Grey Knight (a Space Marine) and the Battle Sisters were tacked on later, and kind of badly, in DH; they aren't "typical" classes.

 

That's more of a problem with Dark Heresy's version of an Inquisitorial cell starting out as a bunch of "greenhorns with potential", though, when in GW fluff such teams would be led by the Inquisitor him/herself and built from a wide range of veteran experts and specialists.

Hell, GW invented the Deathwatch specifically so that you could have Marine characters in the d100 Inquisitor game.

 

Although I'd say that DH's original Sororitas concept of a lightly equipped young and inexperienced (albeit well-trained) Novice was a clever way to still balance such characters with the other characters in a fresh group.

Edited by Lynata

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I just have a hard time justifying (or making my players justify) why their psyker is hanging around with this particular squad of grunts all the time, or where this random Ratling came from. Yeah they are cool specialties to be, yes they fit in the TT, but I just feel like they were tacked on to OW in that the spirit of the game - grunts fighting on foot - doesn't quite mesh with the additional duties that the support classes would have.

 

It makes it easier for me, as the GM, to have everyone be grunts and in the same squad. I can plan things that affects the group, and not worry about how a commissar would deal with the problem, or if the psyker's handler would even let him be with the squad for whatever hijinks they get into. That way, the session isn't the guardsmen doing something, then the support classes sitting around waiting their turn to do whatever.

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Partly, they are tacked on because it's a role-playing game, and that often demands a certain array of options, no matter how limiting the theme of the game might want you to think it is. You need Rogues, Wizards, Fighters, and Priests, and since 40K has all of those, the game felt it needed to incorporate them, even if they don't always seem to fit; otherwise, everyone in the squad is "just" one more flashlight-wielding grunt. That might be fine to you, and several people here have said, over the threads, that this is actually what they want, but from a selling/collecting interest POV, they need to include options. Every other FFG 40K game has had Tech-Priests, Psykers, Ministorum, and weird things, so Only War didn't feel like saying "we'll be the first where everyone is just an ordinary Human." In case you want a Psyker to fight their Psyker, or a Priest to instill bravery agaisnt Chaos, rather than the Commissar doing it with his bolt pistol, and another flashlight-wielder's head (this costs you damaage output, too, as the Commissar is NEVER that accurate and deadly against the enemy, on a shot-by-shot basis ;), an it's a pistol.)

 

Unless they made better rules for advanced characters, so that higher-end games could incorporate the Specialties, they need to be there from the start, or they are just cool set pieces. Once you are a Vetearn squad, or some equivalent, you could maybe more easily explain the presence of the Specialist full-time, and if you tell your players no first-round characters are Specialists, that COULD work (hold onto them for "oops, you died" moments), but they SHOULD be there somewhere, some level, in my opinion, and if you are always "nameless, faceless grunts, NOT Heroes of the Imperium, as some other folks have also said over the threads, then they have to be present from day 1, because you'll never be "cool enough" to warrant them otherwise, and the Specialists have to be doing something much of the time, too Personally, I disagree with some people's takes on how many of some Specialists a battle group has available, and I believe that Priests, Commissars, AdMech, Psykers, and some others SHOULD be numerous enough to also find a spot in the player's team, but that's my take on things, only.

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Well, the amount of options that would be "required" is certainly a matter of debate (case in point, the invention of female Vostroyan Firstborn), but one could say that it is certainly not wrong to simply have options presented in the book. Depending on the group's preferences in regards to the background, they will simply houserule unwanted options away, like my group did when we rewrote the Deathwatch RPG to conform to GW's original material.

 

The IP leaves many details open for interpretation, whilst others are intentionally contradictory between the various different sources - this game offering more options rather than less thus may constitute an ideal approach in that it caters to almost everyone simultaneously. Never forget that, ultimately, it is your game, which means you can make it fit your group's preferences. And removing options is easier than having to add them yourself.

Edited by Lynata

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I've certainly restricted classes, but only those that make sense.  For example I've told players in an airborne based campaign that there would be no ogryn or ratlings because it would be too hard to find equipment that fit them for the drop and that ogryn who would be unlikely to get into the Valkyrie would be less likely convinced to jump out of it in flight at night over enemy positions while taking anti-aircraft fire.  I also highly discouraged psykers since most regiments that would be alone behind enemy lines for extended periods of time would be loathe to have psykers attached and told the players that any normal characters would view themselves as cursed for having a psyker attached to their squad.  I've also said no to large amounts of "special" characters to avoid everyone being storm troopers, commissars, and abhumans.

 

My opinion is that I won't restrict support characters that make sense for a regiment, but neither will I forget that those characters are just that, support, they are not meant to be a squad on their own.  I still view my players as the "heroes" of their own war movie and that does mean they get the special characters assigned, and the fun guns, but somehow the "normal" troopers still need to outnumber the "special" classes or it isn't the Guard to me anymore.

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Aaaaw no airborne ogryn? Give him a grav shute normally used to deploy sentinels, paint "the one big one" on his front armor and he's good to go. Of course the difficult bit is getting him to remember to activate the grav shute before he slams into the earth. And in order to get him in a valkyrie,you could always tranq the ogryn, much like B.A. Baraccus from the A-team.

 

Ogryn: "I aint gettin' on no plane, Hannibal!"

Commisar:* points boltgun at ogryn*

ogryn: " ok me go on plane now"

 

:)

Edited by Robin Graves

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Actually getting the ogryn in the plane was the easy part... the hard part was getting the ogryn back out again.  It really wasn't an issue since I told my players up front that I had 2 story ideas, one airborne based that was going to mean some restrictions, and one that would involve no restrictions.  They chose what they wanted and we had no problems with it.

 

I'm actually a bit concerned with my new game where I have two players with a tech priest and an ogryn who are both so armored up that none of the regular minions I throw at the rest of the squad will have much of a chance to hurt those two, but anything I can throw at them will turn the rest of the squad into sticky goo in one shot.

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There's a couple things that can help a guardsman there. Adeptus Arbites riot shields and pistol grip modifications on their guns or just gun shields come to mind, for example. You can also put the regular troopers in a chimera. In one campaign, we had a tech-priest who used his strenght 90 servo arm to lug around a big, thick metal plate he'd stomp down in the ground beside him to provide cover for the rest of the group.

 

The ogryn won't really be a problem either. Pull a tarp over his head and suddenly "IT'S DARK IN HERE!". Tech priests, though, beyond haywire cheese, you have very few RAW options. I suggest environmental hazards. Live wires in an urban setting with heavy rain, for example, would make a standard engagement a matter of "proceed with extreme caution" even for someone whom the lasfire won't bother.

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I'm not worried about the "It's dark in there" bit because this time around they're line infantry instead of airborne so the worst they're going to have to is talk him into and out of trucks/chimeras/small buildings.  What I'm more worried about with him is the armor and toughness bonuses mean I need bigger guns to shoot at him that will be overkill for the standard guardsmen and psyker rolling around with him and the tech priest.  They've already chosen their gear so getting extra armor or the shields is out at the moment, but then again that may encourage far more use of cover, which my players have had a habit of ignoring up until now.  They have the mindset of cover making it harder to hit you at all, but doing nothing for you once you're actually hit, which isn't quite how the system means for it to work, so hopefully this will encourage some use of tactics rather than standing in the open and blazing away.

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Actually getting the ogryn in the plane was the easy part... the hard part was getting the ogryn back out again.  It really wasn't an issue since I told my players up front that I had 2 story ideas, one airborne based that was going to mean some restrictions, and one that would involve no restrictions.  They chose what they wanted and we had no problems with it.

 

I'm actually a bit concerned with my new game where I have two players with a tech priest and an ogryn who are both so armored up that none of the regular minions I throw at the rest of the squad will have much of a chance to hurt those two, but anything I can throw at them will turn the rest of the squad into sticky goo in one shot.

As GM and tech priest enthusiast I can advice you to punish those characters more than the others. Big guy that rips your colleagues arms off should be primary target for every squad. Ever y gun, small and big, should point at him.

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Actually getting the ogryn in the plane was the easy part... the hard part was getting the ogryn back out again.  It really wasn't an issue since I told my players up front that I had 2 story ideas, one airborne based that was going to mean some restrictions, and one that would involve no restrictions.  They chose what they wanted and we had no problems with it.

 

I'm actually a bit concerned with my new game where I have two players with a tech priest and an ogryn who are both so armored up that none of the regular minions I throw at the rest of the squad will have much of a chance to hurt those two, but anything I can throw at them will turn the rest of the squad into sticky goo in one shot.

As GM and tech priest enthusiast I can advice you to punish those characters more than the others. Big guy that rips your colleagues arms off should be primary target for every squad. Ever y gun, small and big, should point at him.

 

 

That's pretty much the way I've treated it.  In our last game it lead to some minor complaining at first but since all of us play the table top edition I asked my players what they'd shoot at first, Ogryn closing to assault range or a mob of guardsmen at range.  I had no more complaints.  The problem I run into is that eventually enough focused firepower on one player will kill them and then the enemy has little problem taking down the rest.  It's the problem that what's challenging to one character is overwhelming to the rest and what's challenging to them is easily squashed by that one tank who can laugh off the normal enemy minions.  Generally it's why I don't have a problem with saying "I have designed a campaign for X style characters, you can choose anything within X style characters," this is the first campaign I've run outside of those rules (spoilers, I'm a fairly new GM) so I am sort of worried about how some player characters could raise the difficulties for others.  

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In my first campaign, which has been ongoing for about 6 months and is now drawing to a close, we started out with an Ogryn and a Crimson Guard Tech-Priest, which rapidly became unable to be harmed by small arms fire. The answer I began to employ was relatively simple.

I tried including Weapons Specialists among the Severan ranks that were pulling out the heavy duty weaponry like Plasma Guns.

Turned out to be a fairly good solution. The smaller guardsmen continued as normal, but re-prioritised their targeting on the weapons specialists and heavies that they were encountering, which were quite steadily knocking wounds off of the Ogryn and the Techpriest.

APCs are also a good way to seriously discourage lunacy as well, on the simple grounds that things like turret mounted Multilasers and Heavy Bolters will force people to seriously reconsider sticking their head out into the open.

Sure they can take a few for the team, but if you throw in just the right mix of big guns to chip away at their Wounds, they'll slow down and grow more cautious as well, without completely breaking the game. Just allocate fire where appropriate and remember that unless you're fielding Orks as the opponents, the enemy are smart - often as smart as or smarter than the players. Use tactics.

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