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EmraldArcher

How good are the discount cards?

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Tap to reduce the cost of a faction unit by 1 resource, every faction has one but are they actually worth using?

 

Obviously the earlier you play it the better it is. Lets start backwards:

 

Turn 7 - Someone is winning this turn, if you play one of these it's probably not you. 

 

Turn 6 - I can't think of a card off the top of my head I would rather have in my hand less then one of these. Sure if you play one on turn 6 it will be resource neutral on turn 7 but it's not affecting the game state.

 

Turn 4/5 - During these turns you're either trying to win the game or prevent your opponent from winning. Playing it on one of these turns can still provide value later in the game.

 

Turn 1/2/3 - The best time to play one of these. Plenty of turns ahead to take advantage.

 

There are a few things that reduce the viability of these cards however:

 

1. Multi-faction decks - There will be times when you either don't have any of the appropriate faction's units in hand or the optimal play is a unit from the other faction.

 

2. Reducing the cost of a unit by 1 won't always help - If you have two 3 cost units in hand and only 4 resources, having one of these in play still only lets you play one unit.

 

3. Games probably won't last 7 turns - I suspect that most games will end on turn 5 or 6. This shortens the window these are a good play even more.

 

What does everyone think? Will these cards make the cut for competitive tournament decks?

Edited by EmraldArcher

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I find it odd that people (sometimes the same people) rate these cards highly and then rag on Prometheum Mine, when they both give very similar benefits (play early for a minor resource advantage). The only benefit I see of these over the Mine is they pay out the same turn you play them, whereas the mine is delayed a turn. Conversely, the Mine gives a real tangible resource that can be used for anything (such as playing that one crucial Event card) whereas the other support only works if you deploy something.

I think they're fine myself; but like the Mine, I think it's difficult to decide if you want two or three in your deck. Three increases the odds of getting it turn 1 when it's most useful but also increases the likelihood you'll draw the extras late-game when they're dead weight.

I think ultimately many people will cut these in favour of more, cheap, Command-icon floating cards which can help you get the Command victories you want (to both fuel your economy and deny your opponent's). However, I think overlooking these could prove to be a mistake. I'll be interested to see how much play they see at competition level too.

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They're unique, so it's hard to want to play 3. But as they are essentially free the turn they are played and +1 resource after that (assuming you're not sitting on a fist full of events and supports), I think they're useful. A buck is a buck, you know? But I'm probably also balancing them against the Mines while deckbuilding and figuring out how to manage my resource curve.

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It's an interesting conundrum, to be sure.

Cost-reducing supports: Drop one early, and it's a guaranteed 1-credit every turn you deploy a one-cost+ unit from then on. If you don't deploy something on one of the turns after you play this, you're not getting the maximum benefit (but that might be the best play at the time).

Prometheum Mine: Guaranteed to pay out for the next 4 turns; but you're putting yourself into a kind of resource debt for one turn. Need to be planning for the game to go on at least 3 more turns to really be worth it (and ideally 4 for the full payout).

Rogue Trader: +1 Resource, AND the bonus of whatever planet he's at - IF you win the Command Struggle, meaning you'll likely have to commit more units to the same planet to support him.

I foresee a much more in-depth strategy article being written comparing these three cards in the near future. Not by me; I don't have the tactical acumen (or the head for economic analysis).

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Deck construction will also be a big issue.  An event-heavy low-unit-cost deck (Eldar?) might favor mines even more heavily, whereas a "fatty" deck (chaos?) might favor the cost-reducer a bit more.

 

Monofaction decks will also be able to make better use of the cost-reducer than decks with allies, since you cannot use the cost reducer for the allied faction units, or you would need to get 1 of each out.

 

Mines are less likely to be a "dead draw".  Even late-game, it can sometimes be desirable to play a 0 or 1 cost card (like mines) to bait out your opponents deployments.  If you already have a cost-reducer in play, then you can't play another.  You could, however, play another mine to delay your heavier deployments, making running 3 mines somewhat more strategically viable than running 3 cost-reducers.

 

Some factions also can (or may gain the ability to in future expansions) make alternate use of the Mines.  Infantry Conscripts is the first example.  However, there may be more in the future.

 

I posted this originally on another thread, but it is relevant here:

 

Assuming that games last a full 7 turns (not always, but it certainly can happen), in order to look at maximum output.  Also assuming that you draw all of your mines fast enough to play them on turns 1,2,3

 

  1. Pay 1 to drop (Mine or Unique).  Mine - 0 collected, Unique - 1 collected
  2. Pay 1 to drop second mine.  Mine - 1 collected (1 total).  Unique - 1 collected (2 total)
  3. Pay 1 to drop third mine.  Mine - 2 collected (3 total).  Unique - 1 collected (3 total)
  4. Mine - 3 collected (6 total).  Unique - 1 collected (4 total)
  5. Mine - 3 collected (9 total).  Unique - 1 collected (5 total)
  6. Mine - 2 collected (11 total).  Unique - 1 collected (6 total)
  7. Mine - 1 collected (12 total).  Unique - 1 collected (7 total)

In a 7 round game with perfect deploys, the Unique is worth a net of 6 resources, while a full set of mines is worth 9 net.

 

With a turn 1 play, the unique is actually better than a single mine (which nets 3), equal to 2 (net 6).  A Turn 1 Unique is only less efficient than Mines if all three mines are dropped by round 3 and the game lasts longer than 5 rounds.

 

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They're unique, so it's hard to want to play 3. But as they are essentially free the turn they are played and +1 resource after that (assuming you're not sitting on a fist full of events and supports), I think they're useful. A buck is a buck, you know? But I'm probably also balancing them against the Mines while deckbuilding and figuring out how to manage my resource curve.

 

How is it free the turn it's played?

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They're unique, so it's hard to want to play 3. But as they are essentially free the turn they are played and +1 resource after that (assuming you're not sitting on a fist full of events and supports), I think they're useful. A buck is a buck, you know? But I'm probably also balancing them against the Mines while deckbuilding and figuring out how to manage my resource curve.

 

How is it free the turn it's played?

 

Because you can immediately use it to reduce the cost of your next deployment. In terms of net cost, it's effective free.

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As the card pool expands I suspect these will see less play as we're bound to get more efficient cards that have command icons and 'planet presence'.  I'm not sure how much I rate either these or the mine to be honest, but I'm quite an aggro player so I don't know anything other than 'turn guys sideways'!  :)

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They're unique, so it's hard to want to play 3. But as they are essentially free the turn they are played and +1 resource after that (assuming you're not sitting on a fist full of events and supports), I think they're useful. A buck is a buck, you know? But I'm probably also balancing them against the Mines while deckbuilding and figuring out how to manage my resource curve.

 

How is it free the turn it's played?

 

Because you can immediately use it to reduce the cost of your next deployment. In terms of net cost, it's effective free.

 

 

For some reason I was thinking they cost 2 resources not 1.

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I think that in a mono faction deck the faction cost reducers are an auto include. But once you're playing with allies, their value is diluted enough that I don't think I would run them. I think their versatility makes Mines far superior in a mixed deck. The only exception might be the AM cost reducer if you're running the Conscripts. But even then, you may find more useful supports from the other faction.

And if you are going to run either one, I wouldn't want to run them as one ofs. Too unreliable, you may never draw it. I would run the faction reducers as two ofs and the Mines definitely as three because with their effect being delayed by a turn, they need to be out asap.

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When compared to Agot you would think they are amazing since cards like this are the core of your deck in that game. However they are unique so they are much easier to play and Agot can go beyond 7 turns as well. No matter what turn you basically get to delay your first deploy action which can make a huge difference so its great. As for why the Mine isnt rated nearly as high by most people its because it doesn't go even the turn you play it, it actually hurts you if you needed that one resource to do something important and the longer you hold it the worse it becomes. 

 

 

As the card pool expands I suspect these will see less play as we're bound to get more efficient cards that have command icons and 'planet presence'.  I'm not sure how much I rate either these or the mine to be honest, but I'm quite an aggro player so I don't know anything other than 'turn guys sideways'!   :)

 

 

I think you will never see a point in this game where running 1 of the reducers is bad in a mostly mono army deck. Running more maybe but there is no downside of running 1 except you might not see it and delaying deployment will only be more important as more characters get come into play abilities.

Edited by DOAisBetter

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