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Why is Star Wars coming as $180 in rulebooks that are mostly reprinted info?

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Edge of Empire got the Corelian Sector book, Force and Destiny might get a Tapani Sector book... what Sector was particularly exemplary of the fight of the Rebelion?

 

Maybe whatever has the Mon Calamarian's planet?

 

Dac is the name of their water-world. And I don't remember it being particularly active for the rebellion during this timeframe - sure, the Mon Cals threw their shipyard/support in with the Rebellion, but from what I can recall not a lot actually *happened* there during this part of the era.

I suspect the 'location' book analogue is actually going to be a series of 'flashpoints' - key worlds where the fighting was heaviest and/or most important to the Rebellion as a whole.

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Edge of Empire got the Corelian Sector book, Force and Destiny might get a Tapani Sector book... what Sector was particularly exemplary of the fight of the Rebelion?

 

Whatever system Hoth is in, perhaps?

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Edge of Empire got the Corelian Sector book, Force and Destiny might get a Tapani Sector book... what Sector was particularly exemplary of the fight of the Rebelion?

 

Whatever system Hoth is in, perhaps?

 

I'd guess the Hoth system. :D

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have you seen the size of the core EotE book?

 

imagine adding the additional races from AoR and FaD to it.

now imagine adding the additional ships.

now the additional adversaries.

now the careers, the specialisations.

force powers.

better pad out the talents as we have new ones.

skills need to be larger to accommodate warfare.

more equipment.

some fluff to explain the differences between the themes available in this massive tome.

nearly forgot duty and morality.

 

what would you suggest they cut?

as i can't see that book being capable of being physically printed.

 

for me i'm super happy about the decision as it gives everything the room it needs. it also gives people choice.

 

I'm hoping that somewhere down the line, FFG will just release a "comprehensive core reference." Just take the basics from each book. No fluff, no GM section, no example adventure. They could keep a condensed version of the steps for character creation and mechanics and still keep it relatively thin.

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I doubt that will happen. What I do see is in second ed they will be able to have the info in the books a little more clear on the cross compatibility stuff. Like nice clear rules for how the various things like Obligation, Duty, and Morality play together. The force rules can be set up to all use the Force and destiny rule set for the force and so on. 

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I'm hoping that somewhere down the line, FFG will just release a "comprehensive core reference." Just take the basics from each book. No fluff, no GM section, no example adventure. They could keep a condensed version of the steps for character creation and mechanics and still keep it relatively thin.

 

I too don't see this happening, but the Rules Compendium was one of the best financial investments when I was playing 4e (besides the insider account). It would be handy to have a quick reference booklet like that.

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I doubt that will happen. What I do see is in second ed they will be able to have the info in the books a little more clear on the cross compatibility stuff. Like nice clear rules for how the various things like Obligation, Duty, and Morality play together. The force rules can be set up to all use the Force and destiny rule set for the force and so on. 

That's a road I really hope FFG doesn't go down. Given the the cost of the books, which I'm happy to pay as they are premium resources, launching a second edition would be a death sentence. I think a lot of supporters of the game would feel betrayed if we were expected to shell out again for books to update to a new edition.

 

I understand that launching a new edition is a great money maker in the Wizards of the Coast model of doing things; the core books are where they make the most profit so WOTC wanted to find ways to get players to repurchase them. However, how many fans went over to Pathfinder sooner than changeover to 4th edition D&D? This is just my long way of saying I hope FFG doesn't get greedy and try to flip this game system to a second edition for a long, long time.

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However, how many fans went over to Pathfinder sooner than changeover to 4th edition D&D?

That had far more to do with system preference (3e over 4e) than with buying in to a new Edition (since they were still buying into a new Edition, the Pathfinder Edition of 3e).

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I doubt that will happen. What I do see is in second ed they will be able to have the info in the books a little more clear on the cross compatibility stuff. Like nice clear rules for how the various things like Obligation, Duty, and Morality play together. The force rules can be set up to all use the Force and destiny rule set for the force and so on.

That's a road I really hope FFG doesn't go down. Given the the cost of the books, which I'm happy to pay as they are premium resources, launching a second edition would be a death sentence. I think a lot of supporters of the game would feel betrayed if we were expected to shell out again for books to update to a new edition.

I understand that launching a new edition is a great money maker in the Wizards of the Coast model of doing things; the core books are where they make the most profit so WOTC wanted to find ways to get players to repurchase them. However, how many fans went over to Pathfinder sooner than changeover to 4th edition D&D? This is just my long way of saying I hope FFG doesn't get greedy and try to flip this game system to a second edition for a long, long time.

I am not saying tomorrow. I am thinking after a couple years after R&D comes out. Which would be how many years after EotE came out? Eventually I see them doing a second ed. I don't see a need to change the mechanics much. Just bring them all in line with each other. Edited by Daeglan

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I wasn't really following the hobby at the time, but wasn't the defection from 4th edition D&D more related to the massive changes in the rules, rather than specifically the fact of making a new edition of the rules?

 

For example, the 5th edition D&D rules are being pretty positively received overall.

 

I don't know if or when FFG might feel it was appropriate to release a 2nd edition of SWRP, but it seems like it'd be a few years down the line. Ideally they wouldn't completely overhaul the rules, just tighten them up and adopt what they've learned from the play and feedback of the previous few years.

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The great defection happened when between 3.5 and 4th they made huge changes that people did not like. what people wanted was 3.75 and they get something completely different. Paizo made 3.75 and called it pathfinder. 

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I wasn't really following the hobby at the time, but wasn't the defection from 4th edition D&D more related to the massive changes in the rules, rather than specifically the fact of making a new edition of the rules?

Yes, it did.

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The thing is ... this splitting everything rule relevant (maneuvres, mass combat, squads, ...) into so many books frustrates me as a GM and player. I prefer to have them in one book obviously called CRB.

The splat books then can contain as much fluff as they want, with extra classes and further equipment.

But by what i feel withholding things to tempt/force me to buy up to 3 other books and a GM screen to get all the rules feels to me like moneygrabbing.

I already bought every product in the EotE line except the Beginner Box and JoY. I am quite happy about their quality but that's enough material to lug around.

Now, to get the rest of the rules i should buy and carry aound another CRB, a second GM screen and a book for things that would fit onto a few pages?

No, not going to happen.

It's not just about the money. I could easily afford those books if i cut back on my other hobbies. But i have no intention to do so.

Edited for clarity

Edited by segara82

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The force rules can be set up to all use the Force and destiny rule set for the force and so on.

 

I don't have the F&D beta. Are the startup Force rules (of EotE/AoR) not compatible with what you are seeing in F&D? A Force Sensitive can't later expand into the powers of F&D without some re-creation of the character under F&D? I had assumed a Force Sensitive from EotE or AoR could seemlessly grow into a full-on Force-User/Jedi using F&D.

Edited by Sturn

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The force rules can be set up to all use the Force and destiny rule set for the force and so on.

 

I don't have the F&D beta. Are the startup Force rules (of EotE/AoR) not compatible with what you are seeing in F&D? A Force Sensitive can't later expand into the powers of F&D without some re-creation of the character under F&D? I had assumed a Force Sensitive from EotE or AoR could seemlessly grow into a full-on Force-User/Jedi using F&D.

 

They can. The rules are consistent.

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The force rules are slightly different. In Age and edge you could only spend lightside pips. In F&D you can spend either. You take conflict for doing so. Bringing all the force rules up to F7D and adding Morality to the previous 2 games would bring everything into alignment. It is a minor change. But one i could see being brought into sync in a 2nd ed in the future. Likely after all the splatbooks for Force and Destiny are out. Which would be a minimum of 3 years out. and I don't think a 2nd ed would come that soon. 

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The force rules are slightly different. In Age and edge you could only spend lightside pips. In F&D you can spend either. You take conflict for doing so. Bringing all the force rules up to F7D and adding Morality to the previous 2 games would bring everything into alignment. It is a minor change. But one i could see being brought into sync in a 2nd ed in the future. Likely after all the splatbooks for Force and Destiny are out. Which would be a minimum of 3 years out. and I don't think a 2nd ed would come that soon. 

You could always burn a destiny point to use darkside pips. You still burn the destiny... but you now doing so gets you points of "conflict" that at the end of the session may turn into a change in your Morality (the new Obligation/Duty mechanic)

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It's always easier to be clever and smart mouthed in hindsight and when the product has been made and delivered. It's a typical tendency of "people," the proverbial "them."

 

Wildly speculating and stating how it would've been so much better "your" way is dependant upon the fact that it is the way it is, we can never know (regardless of how well you think you know yourselves) whether or not "you" wouldn't have made the exact opposite complaints if they'd gone a different route. We can never know. But to speculate about that is as meaningful as having yet another thread discussing this topic.

 

Naysaying and complaining just because one can is a privilege of being human I guess, it's pointless, meaningless and when it all comes down to it, petty and stupid. But "people" find pleasure in most things, I mean just look to history or the art world and the petty squabbles and nonsensical arguments going on here becomes pathetic and silly.

 

Whether or not one can agree on what constitutes a "complete" or "comprehensive" star wars experience is also kind of meh. This will differ from group to group, person to person, there is no "high-ground," no "right" definition, regardless of how many words are capitalised and emphasised using italics or bold typing or underlined. Sure, some sort of intersubjective agreement (or mutual suspension of doubt) can probably be reached, but that would be temporary, at best - as we always strive to expand our definitions, use our authority, positioning and power. I'm getting quite meta now, I know, but this whole discussion is such a great example of this.

 

Whether EotE or Aor is enough for your gaming group or desires, or if you need FaD too... well, that doesn't really, I mean, it doesn't really on any level tell us anything about the aggregate data and consequences of this business model. Believing that using personal anecdotes to support or criticise a business model based on statistics and an aggregate view leads anywhere useful is horribly misinformed, uneducated and backwards. Whether or not one personally "believes" in scientific method or not is irrelevant really, it's basically a logical fallacy (akin to exception fallacy, the opposite of an ecological fallacy.)

 

So, we can adapt and accept as it has been done - this is of course the most reasonable approach, but to quote someone famous (that I don't necessarily agree with): "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

 

So, please continue this debate, discussion or whatever you want to call it. :ph34r:

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Because FFG is a marketing genius and they know we will buy them (said as waiting in line for next book... whatever it is...) "Spat book for Kowakian Monkey Lizard? SHADDUP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!"

Edited by BrashFink

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My fanboy powers are weakening. I was pretty underwhelmed with AoR so I've considered selling off that stuff, forgetting about F&D, and just collecting Edge. I will agree that the art is very awesome across the board, though. 

 

I look at it this way, by cutting 2/3 of this line out I'll have money for Imperial Assault and/or Armada :)

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Most of my points on this have already been made by someone else. I'm buying all 3 so I'd rather a core and 3 setting books but as has already been mentioned it would probably not save much since the majority of the book's cost isn't page count. But if I wanted to play a Jedi campaign I'd probably be happy to find all the rules in one book.

Not everyone is a Star Wars geek or a completionist and for all their vaunted compatibility, the 3 books present very different campaign concepts. I'd probably play EotE as a fan of Firefly but not AoR or F&D. I might play AoR as a fan of military games. I might play F&D if Ars Magica or Mage: the Ascension were my favorite games ever; or even if I just like Indiana Jones.

As it stands, I'm basically buying the books because I like having mechanics we can all agree are somewhat balanced. I knew when I bought the books (particularly the second on) that I was really going to be paying for the Species, Careers, Specializations, and Force Trees; not the vast majority of common mechanics that I would grok (if not memorize) and subsequently never look at again or the fluff that I already know much of and likely disagree with more. Looking at the Amazon (and not factoring the value of anything else), that's about $2.50 a specialization. And I'd probably be pretty happy to pay that much for a balanced D&D class (that did something I'm interested in) because it would provide me with handful of unique mechanics. Its just that in this case I get a printed reference to read as an added bonus.

Edited by T3CHN0Shaman

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I look at it this way, by cutting 2/3 of this line out I'll have money for Imperial Assault and/or Armada :)

Yeah, actually... think of Xwing. At least I have stopped at "one of each" and said no to the giant ships. I have a friend that has like 6 xwing, and perhaps 10 ties... then like 3 of the others. Madness.

 

I see Assault and Armada and am like... "omg, how many games do I have to get?" (obviously there is not an option for "No") Luckily I have not gotten suckered into the card games at least

Edited by BrashFink

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