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Why is Star Wars coming as $180 in rulebooks that are mostly reprinted info?

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My personal opinion on this is: Do I think that FFG reprinted the rules and stuff in three books in order to make more money? Yes. Do I mind? Not at all. RPG books on paper seem to be a dying breed, and I will gladly support a company that keeps churning out books, especially when said books are as good as the ones FFG makes. Of course, I have a quite strong economy, which others might not, but these specific books are not inadequately priced. I look forward to buying the finished F&D book, and all of its supplements.

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Speaking of WotC, their latest edition of D&D makes me want to thank FFG for stretching out the CRB's over three years.  D&D 5th ed is (for the GM anyway) three books @ $50 a book, all being released within a span of maybe three months.  That's a hefty buy-in.

Only if you pay MSRP.  The D&D books can/will also be had at deep discounts if people can wait past initial launch.  People quoting listed MSRP are being hyperbolic imo about costs with this or any system.  Anyone who pays the MSRP price is choosing to pay that price, they certainly have options to pay considerably less.

 

 

I completely agree with you.  There are numerous ways to get discounted books online.  My point was mainly aimed at the people I see talking about the MSRP of the FFG books.  Was just making a comparison. :D

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Those 200 supplements are entirely optional... most people who have GURPS will never need to look at any of those supplements unless they want to for specific guidance or entirely optional rules to represent certain things. Almost any genre can be run out of the two core books (though some genres are more easily served than others by the corebooks), and you would never have any requirement to buy further books unless you chose to.

 

Now, you might choose not to play GURPS as it doesn't meet your tastes, but the wealth of supplementary material it has is never a reason not to...

That being said, to be fair GURPS in itself is NOT a "complete RPG experience" in itself: it has no setting, you have to buy another supplement to have one (it's the "G" in the name, and part of the "U"). Sure you can run "any genre", even from your own novels, but you'll have to match/convert/adjust the rules/powers/weapons to the game universe, and in some cases you'll end up with a different "vibe" (grittiness, heroics, etc.)

 

Compare to EotE/AoR/FaD, which have extensive settings chapters that are "standalone". They're just not individually "complete Star Wars experiences".

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FFG was pretty up front about this.

 

And they always talked about the three core books being "stand alone" games.

 

I'm not sure what to make of this.  Yeah, they're stand alone, each focusing on some aspect of the Star Wars universe, but if you want to play Star Wars instead of Firefly in the Outer Rim you need more than just one of them, ideally you'd need all 3 to play most Star Wars games.  It seems obvious that FFG intended people to buy all 3 core books.

 

Saga Edition managed to fit "everything" into one umbrella core book just fine.

 

That said I don't mind paying $60 for 3 core books.  I feel like I'm getting something of value from it.

 

Having 3 books did allow FFG to do more development on the game though, which is good.  And each core book adds an interesting "core" mechanic which is additional value.

 

I am puzzled why Edge came out first instead of Rebellion, as Rebellion provides a much more iconic Star Wars experience on it's own.

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I am puzzled why Edge came out first instead of Rebellion, as Rebellion provides a much more iconic Star Wars experience on it's own.

Yep that  but as the "gritty and dusty underworld" part of Star Wars is my favorite, I certainly didn't complain!

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I am puzzled why Edge came out first instead of Rebellion, as Rebellion provides a much more iconic Star Wars experience on it's own.

I'm glad they did. The underworld side of Star Wars is one we haven't really explored in our Star Wars gaming experience until I picked up EotE.

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money/profit will sadly always came first for a company.....when WEG had the star wars license you did get most of the toys in the rulebook and then additional information/fluff was via sourcebooks.

no rule system is perfect, it can't be.. everyone is different, with different views and opinions.. there are things that I like with FFG,WEG and WOTC versions of the Star Wars roleplaying game... each one has it's merits and flaws.

im fortunate to have all the systems but it can be frustrating to buy the same stuff over and over again.

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... but if you want to play Star Wars instead of Firefly in the Outer Rim you need more than just one of them,...

 

We have only used EotE and our games have been a full blown Star Wars experience.

 

 

And that will mean different things to different people but Edge is limiting for the kinds of Star Wars games I like to run.

And while you can run an "iconic" Star Wars game using Edge - as this is largely a matter of plot and character and story - there are still a lot of pieces missing from a system support perspective.

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I am puzzled why Edge came out first instead of Rebellion, as Rebellion provides a much more iconic Star Wars experience on it's own.

I'm glad they did. The underworld side of Star Wars is one we haven't really explored in our Star Wars gaming experience until I picked up EotE.

 

 

I like the underworld parts of Star Wars too but a whole "game" focused on it is out of balance for my tastes.

Each of the core books add their own seasoning to the Star Wars experience and for me all of them are necessary to really make it work the way I want to.  A game focused on the underworld or without the underworld doesn't feel like Star Wars to me.

And this is my point - all the core books provide elements that are needed for a complete Star Wars experience.

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There's perhaps a hundred pages of actual unique information in each book.

 

No, actually there's a great deal more than that. I've done the math in other posts before - AoR book is about 60% new material from EotE and F&D (with all the material on the Force) is probably going to be much higher than that.

 

 

FF should have just made one rulebook and released EotE (smugglers), AoR (rebels) and FaD (jedi) as setting/class books if they wanted to make them standalone...

 

While I assume that you'd be okay with a book with a 800 page count that weighs 40 pounds and costs north of 120 bucks then, doing so in the marketplace would have been finantial suicide.

Edited by Desslok

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SJGames has managed it with two Core books so comprehensive no other books are needed, but yet they've published somewhere over 200 supplements for GURPS since the fourth edition was published.

Here's the problem: in my eyes, the SECR book was so comprehensive as to actually devalue most of the splatbooks and make the latter "not worth buying"... I really would not be surprised to find that a lot of Saga-period gamers felt the same way, and presumably FFG decided to adopt a business model that wasn't nearly as dependent on splatbook purchases as WotC's, though this may also have been affected by the particulars of their licensing deals.

Edited by Chortles

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I am puzzled why Edge came out first instead of Rebellion, as Rebellion provides a much more iconic Star Wars experience on it's own.

I'm glad they did. The underworld side of Star Wars is one we haven't really explored in our Star Wars gaming experience until I picked up EotE.

 

 

I like the underworld parts of Star Wars too but a whole "game" focused on it is out of balance for my tastes.

Each of the core books add their own seasoning to the Star Wars experience and for me all of them are necessary to really make it work the way I want to.  A game focused on the underworld or without the underworld doesn't feel like Star Wars to me.

And this is my point - all the core books provide elements that are needed for a complete Star Wars experience.

 

I think you have a very good point.  Star Wars isn't about the outer rim underworld, or the rebellion against the empire, or even the Jedi.  It's about all three - a concept that was born out of the original trilogy.

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And this is my point - all the core books provide elements that are needed for a complete Star Wars experience.

 

I'd have to disagree, unless you're someone who wants to recreate the movies all the time...not that there's anything wrong with that  ;)

 

To me the most compelling thing about the SW universe is it can be used to host almost any kind of story, from westerns to film noir detectives to heart of darkness to...whatever you want.  It's so rich it doesn't always have to be some vast galactic evil that must be conquered by the forces of good.  You can have an entire campaign based on the careers of the thieves in the Italian Job (remake) or Oceans 11, or the adventures of the local sheriff on some backwater colony.

 

Anyway, it's apparent to me that the people complaining about the three book approach don't really understand the realities of a) business; and b) game design.

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And this is my point - all the core books provide elements that are needed for a complete Star Wars experience.

 

I'd have to disagree, unless you're someone who wants to recreate the movies all the time...not that there's anything wrong with that  ;)

 

To me the most compelling thing about the SW universe is it can be used to host almost any kind of story, from westerns to film noir detectives to heart of darkness to...whatever you want.  It's so rich it doesn't always have to be some vast galactic evil that must be conquered by the forces of good.  You can have an entire campaign based on the careers of the thieves in the Italian Job (remake) or Oceans 11, or the adventures of the local sheriff on some backwater colony.

 

Anyway, it's apparent to me that the people complaining about the three book approach don't really understand the realities of a) business; and b) game design.

 

 

I agree that you can carve out whatever niche game you want in the Star Wars galaxy but it's that - a niche.  Nothing wrong with that.

But the three core books are required for a COMPLETE Star Wars experience.  That doesn't mean that you can't play fun games with just one core book or that the game cannot be a Star Wars game but if you're just using one core book you are in fact constrained.

 

I agree that those complaining about the 3 core books don't understand business but...game design too?

Designing the game to be in 3 core books and to release Edge first is a fine design decision but the "realities" of design are wide open in a lot of areas.  They *could* have designed it to fit into a single core book.  They *could* have designed it for 2 core books or whatever.  They *could* have released a core book with the core mechanics and a Edge "supplement".  

Now, given their design goals as described 3 core books was maybe a necessity (e.g., they wanted a core mechanic to fit the different aspects of a Star Wars game) or at the very least well-suited.  But those design goals were not dictated by "reality of design", they were chosen.

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So, which one is it? You need more than one book or it is just Firefly, or sure it can be Star Wars in just one of the systems?

I mean EotE has it all, seedy cantina's, crime lords, bountynhunters, imperial agents, storm troopers, force users, monsters, etc... Seems pretty Star Wars to me.

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So, which one is it? You need more than one book or it is just Firefly, or sure it can be Star Wars in just one of the systems?

I mean EotE has it all, seedy cantina's, crime lords, bountynhunters, imperial agents, storm troopers, force users, monsters, etc... Seems pretty Star Wars to me.

 

It's really missing Battles of Yavin/Hoth/Endor...

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So, which one is it? You need more than one book or it is just Firefly, or sure it can be Star Wars in just one of the systems?

I mean EotE has it all, seedy cantina's, crime lords, bountynhunters, imperial agents, storm troopers, force users, monsters, etc... Seems pretty Star Wars to me.

So you have no reason to buy Age or F&D then right?

They don't offer anything?

So you're now arguing that the core books after Edge are a rip off because you don't really need them?

Or it's just $120 to round out the "complete" material Edge provides?

Let me try this again.

None of the core books alone allow for the full spectrum of the Star Wars experience as defined by the movies.

Edge and Age support for Jedi is extremely limited.

Edge support for soldiers, Rebellion, and such is limited.

Age support for bounty hunters, smugglers, crimelords etc is very limited.

I'm not saying anything revolutionary here. It's something that was fairly explicitly stated by the designers when Edge came out.

Try running a Edge game outside of the Rebellion era and not focused on the seedy side of Star Wars. Lots of limitations and constraints.

Edited by Jedi Ronin

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I am puzzled why Edge came out first instead of Rebellion, as Rebellion provides a much more iconic Star Wars experience on it's own.

The few times I've started a game with a new group, I've given them the option of Edge or Age, and every time the choice has been unanimously Edge.  The only exception is people asking about Jedi and I have to tell them it's not out quite yet.

I do run an AoR game, but it's with people who have been playing EotE since it came out and wanted something different.

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FF should have just made one rulebook and released EotE (smugglers), AoR (rebels) and FaD (jedi) as setting/class books if they wanted to make them standalone...

 

What if the cost of publishing a book is largely a fixed cost and the page count only varies the cost of printing a small amount? What you are asking for could cost more not less. Perhaps there is a reason many book stores sell their books for about the same price regardless of page count.

 

 

Intresting point. If that is the case then i'd rather have (what we have now) the 3 sourcebooks with the rules repeated in each.

 

"Perhaps there is a reason many book stores sell their books for about the same price regardless of page count."

there is-  money grabbing! err i mean profit.

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I am puzzled why Edge came out first instead of Rebellion, as Rebellion provides a much more iconic Star Wars experience on it's own.

EotE allows you to pretty well "play the first movie" (Star Wars/A New Hope).

AoR allows you to pretty well "play the second and third movies" (Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi).

F&D looks to be aimed at the nasssty, nasssty prequelsssss*...

* They burns us precious, yessss, they do...

 

No, actually there's a great deal more than that. I've done the math in other posts before - AoR book is about 60% new material from EotE and F&D (with all the material on the Force) is probably going to be much higher than that.

Yeah, I did it a few pages back (comparison only) and AoR runs about 55% new material. Which in my opinion is still to little.

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So, which one is it? You need more than one book or it is just Firefly, or sure it can be Star Wars in just one of the systems?

I mean EotE has it all, seedy cantina's, crime lords, bountynhunters, imperial agents, storm troopers, force users, monsters, etc... Seems pretty Star Wars to me.

So you have no reason to buy Age or F&D then right?

They don't offer anything?

So you're now arguing that the core books after Edge are a rip off because you don't really need them?

Or it's just $120 to round out the "complete" material Edge provides?

Let me try this again.

None of the core books alone allow for the full spectrum of the Star Wars experience as defined by the movies.

Edge and Age support for Jedi is extremely limited.

Edge support for soldiers, Rebellion, and such is limited.

Age support for bounty hunters, smugglers, crimelords etc is very limited.

I'm not saying anything revolutionary here. It's something that was fairly explicitly stated by the designers when Edge came out.

Try running a Edge game outside of the Rebellion era and not focused on the seedy side of Star Wars. Lots of limitations and constraints.

So basically you stated it wasn't Star Wars but Firefly (you literally did) and I disagreed with that sentiment, and now it is me who is not on board with the design choices? This conversation is getting ever so much weirder.... Imthink I'll bow out before more unfounded accusations start flying my way.

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I agree that those complaining about the 3 core books don't understand business but...game design too?

Designing the game to be in 3 core books and to release Edge first is a fine design decision but the "realities" of design are wide open in a lot of areas.  They *could* have designed it to fit into a single core book.  They *could* have designed it for 2 core books or whatever.  They *could* have released a core book with the core mechanics and a Edge "supplement".  

 

As I've said before, then we'd only be getting the game beta NOW.  That would be two years of R&D for FFG with no revenue stream at all.  In this case, business and game design are intertwined.

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