Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Valatar

Why is Star Wars coming as $180 in rulebooks that are mostly reprinted info?

Recommended Posts

@ Brother Bart: I'm also reminded of the fact that, frankly speaking, WotC released a Saga Edition Core Rulebook that was so comprehensive that I really struggled to find value in any of their follow-up sourcebooks except SotG, and the latter only for starship rules, and I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few player groups were similarly finding the SECR itself to be enough for their needs, thereby indirectly devaluing all subsequent WotC books.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if FFG took a lesson from that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm kind of happy there is some reprint of the rules between books. Having enough copy of the rules (skills, progression, weapons table, etc.) at the gaming table is one of the most useful commodity in gaming (I bought two extra 10$ "Explorer's Edition" Savage Worlds books just for that). So if you have all books available, there's a good chance two players can look into two different rulebooks for a talent/tree.

 

Also, it means I can lend a book to one of my players for him to peruse and not be totally fscked while I design the adventure :D

Edited by LexMajor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what I hate, I hate that rain is wet. I love the sights and smells of rain, but gosh darnit can it just be dry too? Is that too much to ask?

 

Back on point. The books are the way they are, the way they will be. Commenting on the internet will not change that.

Also on point. Trying to convince someone that water is indeed wet and they should not demand dry water is always useful and changes opinions 9/10 times.

 

So we are all happy now eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what I hate, I hate that rain is wet. I love the sights and smells of rain, but gosh darnit can it just be dry too? Is that too much to ask?

 

Back on point. The books are the way they are, the way they will be. Commenting on the internet will not change that.

Also on point. Trying to convince someone that water is indeed wet and they should not demand dry water is always useful and changes opinions 9/10 times.

 

So we are all happy now eh?

Kind of thirsty now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not to keen on the current model, and definitely think it's a ploy to make a bit more money.  I'd far prefer a core book, and then splat books for the three genres. 

 

That said, it's not that huge a deal.  They are a for profit company after all, and if they don't make enough money we won't get any more shiny books in the future.  I'll buy the stuff, and it's actually come in handy in our group to have a couple sets of core rules available, so people can look up those little rules we forgot. 

 

Personally I really like Edge and FaD, I'm kind of tepid on Age of Rebellion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FFG did it this way because that is what they chose to do. You can't please everyone. No matter what format they chose people would have complained. Why do I have to buy two/three/four books just to play the game I want? No matter what, someone would have not liked they idea.

To be honest, I don't think it pleases anyone but FFG. I bet almost every subscriber to these forums has or will buy all three core books. They are charging us for repeated content just because they can. There are very few people who just want to use one segment of Star Wars. I'm willing to bet the ones that are settling on just one or two books do so just because of the expense of buying them all. At least in this book, they can't repeat careers and have to add much more new equipment.

Not me. I purchased EotE, so I have "The Galaxy" chapter. AoR and F&D beta books along with the final updates are good enough for me. It's enough for me to do what I want, and gives me some extra copies of the core rules to loan out to players and for table time.

-EF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Split Light: There is also the rumors about how many companies (particularly if they're not WotC) are actually only doing close-to-margin as is, although FFG has benefited from diversifying by also doing up the miniatures game. And re: "if they don't make enough money we won't get any more shiny books in the future" -- I wouldn't be surprised if FFG did an autopsy of WotC's experience with the license and based their business plan accordingly.

 

TL;DR: How many sourcebooks can you justify to players if your one core rulebook is good enough to be worth the money without them feeling like your sourcebooks are really, really stretching to be worth the money? I'm thinking of the last Saga splatbook Unknown Regions...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of WotC, their latest edition of D&D makes me want to thank FFG for stretching out the CRB's over three years.  D&D 5th ed is (for the GM anyway) three books @ $50 a book, all being released within a span of maybe three months.  That's a hefty buy-in.

That's true, no 'monster manual' needed here, though I would probably still buy a creatures, aliens, and adversaries book if FFG made one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TL;DR: How many sourcebooks can you justify to players if your one core rulebook is good enough to be worth the money without them feeling like your sourcebooks are really, really stretching to be worth the money? I'm thinking of the last Saga splatbook Unknown Regions...

SJGames has managed it with two Core books so comprehensive no other books are needed, but yet they've published somewhere over 200 supplements for GURPS since the fourth edition was published.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

TL;DR: How many sourcebooks can you justify to players if your one core rulebook is good enough to be worth the money without them feeling like your sourcebooks are really, really stretching to be worth the money? I'm thinking of the last Saga splatbook Unknown Regions...

SJGames has managed it with two Core books so comprehensive no other books are needed, but yet they've published somewhere over 200 supplements for GURPS since the fourth edition was published.

 

There's a reason I dont play gurps...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a reason I dont play gurps...

Shrug.  Many don't.  Many only play D&D.  Everyone has their tastes.

 

 

I was simply pointing out that having a cohesive Core Book doesn't lead to ruin and doom for a rpg company (and using the one company I can do a shelf scan on and quickly come to a "number of released supplements" estimate).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly? I think it's because they couldn't come up with a name. Sure, money is the example everyone takes issue with so it's a great scapegoat. But I think they simply didn't have a good title for a core book of just the mechanics - 'rules of the galaxy' isn't exactly an evocative title. "Hey, guys, dig out that book with all the numbers, I think Jimmy's wrong about his character" is also not likely to win points at the gaming table.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WOTC pulled the same stuff with D&D 4th edition essentials: heroes of the fallen lands/ heroes of the forgotten kingdoms.

Both books had the same rules section, only changing a few races, classess and feats.

But there where only two and those didn't cost 60$ a piece!

 

FF should have just made one rulebook and released EotE (smugglers), AoR (rebels) and FaD (jedi) as setting/class books if they wanted to make them standalone...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WOTC pulled the same stuff with D&D 4th edition essentials: heroes of the fallen lands/ heroes of the forgotten kingdoms.

Both books had the same rules section, only changing a few races, classess and feats.

But there where only two and those didn't cost 60$ a piece!

 

FF should have just made one rulebook and released EotE (smugglers), AoR (rebels) and FaD (jedi) as setting/class books if they wanted to make them standalone...

But they are a business. They love what they do (you can tell) but they also need some kind of profit. I support what they have done. Maybe in the future they will release some mega compendium, an FFG Star Wars Revised edition. Until then I'll keep buying and loving their stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FF should have just made one rulebook and released EotE (smugglers), AoR (rebels) and FaD (jedi) as setting/class books if they wanted to make them standalone...

 

What if the cost of publishing a book is largely a fixed cost and the page count only varies the cost of printing a small amount? What you are asking for could cost more not less. Perhaps there is a reason many book stores sell their books for about the same price regardless of page count.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of WotC, their latest edition of D&D makes me want to thank FFG for stretching out the CRB's over three years.  D&D 5th ed is (for the GM anyway) three books @ $50 a book, all being released within a span of maybe three months.  That's a hefty buy-in.

Only if you pay MSRP.  The D&D books can/will also be had at deep discounts if people can wait past initial launch.  People quoting listed MSRP are being hyperbolic imo about costs with this or any system.  Anyone who pays the MSRP price is choosing to pay that price, they certainly have options to pay considerably less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Over the 30 years that I have been gaming, I would HATE to tally what I have spent, and still spending.  I personally like this game and will, to my wife's chagrin, be purchasing both the Beta and Core of F&D.  Already own the core of Edge and Age.  I have always said, some people spend $50 or more a week at the bar, I prefer spending on something that I can use repeatedly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Over the 30 years that I have been gaming, I would HATE to tally what I have spent, and still spending.  I personally like this game and will, to my wife's chagrin, be purchasing both the Beta and Core of F&D.  Already own the core of Edge and Age.  I have always said, some people spend $50 or more a week at the bar, I prefer spending on something that I can use repeatedly.

 

I dunno about you, but I can use a trip to the bar repeatedly... must be working customer service :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ultimately, it all amounts to "did the company deliver the expected goods, at the expected quality, and to the expected price". That's economics for you. Let's walk through it.

Deliver the goods

  • Overall they delivered the rules and settings for a impressive chunk of the Star Wars universe (Underworlds, Rebels, Jedi).
  • Up to now, it was also delivered on time, as promised (1 per year over 3 years), which impresses me to no end.
  • They are following up with rules supplements, talent cards, GM Screens and whatnot, so support seems committed.

Quality

  • The quality of the books themselves is incredible: art, layout, etc. Aside from some relatively minor quabbles, they are fantastic books (and will look great on a shelf all together).
  • The rules are good and solid, having been playtested over a sizeable period of time by an active community and on staff developers.
  • The "Star Wars Feel" is there, or at least the tools are there for the GM to provide it. It doesn't feel, for instance, like a disguised Star Trek RPG.
  • Remember, the BETA is just that: a BETA. It is not reasonable to expect full quality for the "privilege" of having the rules early and providing feedback. It says so on the cover. It's not by any means an obligatory purchase to get a full game.

Price

  • It is reasonable to expect a "complete RPG experience" within a single book: WEG did it, Saga did it, a thousand other RPGs do it every year (DnD, famously, doesn't). At that point, I can grant you that each book provides a full experience... from a certain point of view (haha). But althought they are standalone, they are NOT a "Complete Star Wars RPG": EotE/AoR don't provide Jedis, FaD likely has no AT-ATs, etc. So I can understand some people being pissed that you have to pay a premium to get the full Star Wars RPG (that's what it is).
  • That being said, by definition if the books sell out and mandate reprint over reprint, THEY ARE NOT TOO EXPENSIVE. Again, economics: a goodthat sells out is NEVER too expensive. It may be short-stocked, but not too expensive. Think of 100$ rulebooks: some people would still shell out the 300$, but probably a lot less.
  • Asking money for BETA rules was a gutsy move (pure innovation in TT RPGs from what I know), but I bow to their genius: it probably collects the most interested players together, and finances development. And by the way the BETA rules sold out, too.

So in the end, I would say that FFG has delivered on goods and quality, but not at the expected price for many. It's OK; doesn't make them evil or the game bad, but it does make a part of their customer base unhappy: that is usually not good for businss as they are a company and seek to be profitable. But overall they seem to be doing something good overall, since last time I checked the books and games were selling very well.

 

Good for them.

Edited by LexMajor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not that bothered by the duplicated rulebooks. I think having a "corebook" and then having an obligatory splatbook to be able to play would be more of a barrier...  However, if you want to make it playable out of one book, you then have to decide what the "core" of a Star Wars game is. For example, many people say it should have Jedi... I on the other think Jedi are not core to a Star Wars game.

 

The main issue I have is that each line is separate after the corebooks. This will likely mean that there will be a lot of repetition in supplements as well. I don't mind repetition in the corebooks, but I wouldn't want a lot of superfluous duplication in the supplements.

 

 

TL;DR: How many sourcebooks can you justify to players if your one core rulebook is good enough to be worth the money without them feeling like your sourcebooks are really, really stretching to be worth the money? I'm thinking of the last Saga splatbook Unknown Regions...

SJGames has managed it with two Core books so comprehensive no other books are needed, but yet they've published somewhere over 200 supplements for GURPS since the fourth edition was published.

 

There's a reason I dont play gurps...

 

Those 200 supplements are entirely optional... most people who have GURPS will never need to look at any of those supplements unless they want to for specific guidance or entirely optional rules to represent certain things. Almost any genre can be run out of the two core books (though some genres are more easily served than others by the corebooks), and you would never have any requirement to buy further books unless you chose to.

 

Now, you might choose not to play GURPS as it doesn't meet your tastes, but the wealth of supplementary material it has is never a reason not to...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What got me in the system is exactly the opposite. I liked the idea of Edge of the Empire and playing Star Wars without the rebellion and the force being major aspects.

I have no plan in buying books from AoR or F&D.

 

Also I do not want at all my players to spend times and consult a rule book. I want to create a cinematic experience.

The same objective applies to me, I try as GM not to open at all the rule book during a session.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...