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Ways the rules could be better

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About the only thing I'm considering is swapping Pilot and Computers for Cool and Vigilance in the initiative round in space combat. Beyond that I haven't seen anything that really needs adjustment.

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I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, oh yeah... hang on, let get my notes...

:D

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About the only thing I'm considering is swapping Pilot and Computers for Cool and Vigilance in the initiative round in space combat. Beyond that I haven't seen anything that really needs adjustment.

Interesting. It's not a twist I'm likely to pick up, but I can certainly see why.

Personally I'm leaving them alone to justify why cockpits have to have windows...

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I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, oh yeah... hang on, let get my notes...

:D

 

If you think the rules are so awful, why play the game? Why post on these forums? I'm sure there are lots of places you can pick up the Saga edition or something, that should be more your style.

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Initiative.

 

I love the rest of the book, but initiative gives me fits. Individual initiative/Mob initiative , Nemesis/Rival, Initiative or not?

 

I frankly hate the way initiative is handled.

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Initiative.

 

I love the rest of the book, but initiative gives me fits. Individual initiative/Mob initiative , Nemesis/Rival, Initiative or not?

 

I frankly hate the way initiative is handled.

Why? I love it as it actually encourages teamwork. You can actually get team work to work more often as you just go in the order that is needed. instead of hoping you roll in the right order.

whafrog and Col. Orange like this

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For me, I don't like Astrogation. I don't really have a fix for it, so I guess I shouldn't beach about it. I have always felt like the ship should have an intelligence, or at least the Navicomp. I don't know, I feel like the actual computer should be part of the roll too. I talked with my group about it, but they don't really mind how it is now, so I am not looking at changing it. It's just I don't like it, but if I change it, does it really make it better? Usually not. But some people hate the rules and have to change them to what they deem "better" and that's great for them. But too often I have seen, and been part of these upgraded games and thought they sucked. For one, unless you want to spend five hours listening to the GM explain this better system, you have no idea what is actually going on. The book I paid money for is now worthless. Usually all these house rules just make the game overly complicated, tedious, and confusing.

Most of the time these house rules don't really enhance the game either. I have seen on these forums were people are changing the game and it really just hurts the players. People making force powers require Discipline checks all of a sudden, or changing how combat talents work becuase the Hired Gun can mow people down before the melee guy can get into range. I saw a fix for that was to limit the ranged combat guy to help the melee guy "have more fun ". Um ok...

So anyway, if I try to "fix" Astrogation becuase I don't like, will it make it better and "funner" for my group? I doubt it. Also, I love doing my terrain building; some of you may seen a little of my work. So I have to decide where I am going to spend my time. Making my game better by working on my terrain and adventure ideas, or by trying to build new rules?

This is not a knock against anyone out there who does want to change the game around, go for it. I hope you and your group enjoy it. And if anyone has a better way to handle Astrogation, let me know. :)

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I have no problem with astrogation, i even use it as a simple knowlege check of the system.  Unless time or accuracy is an issue i usually hand wave the issuee.  Computers IMHO is too broad and doesn't need to be broader by including astrogation.

 

character vs Vehicles is so kludgy it isn't funny.  Not a single personal scale weapon in the core book can damage a vehicle with armor of 4.  I had to make a home rule that Peirce and breach always caused minimum damage based on value of the quality.  As the RAW a vehicle can stay at extreme range and take potshots at characters without retaliation.  Then try to include a chase with open cockpits, and it becomes a nightmare for a GM as you trying to mesh the two systems together.

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I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, oh yeah... hang on, let get my notes...

:D

 

If you think the rules are so awful, why play the game? Why post on these forums? I'm sure there are lots of places you can pick up the Saga edition or something, that should be more your style.

 

Where did he say the rules were awful? Where did he say it wasnt his style?

 

I could come up with a whole list of stuff I thought were bad rules. None of that goes to core mechanic. There isnt a first edition that could not be make quite a bit better. Heck, I would probably say that even if it was my name on the cover.

 

There are some things that dont work (ship encumbrance). There are some things I dont like (classes). Dosent mean I dont think the game is bad, just that I think it could be better.

Icosiel and RedfordBlade like this

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Why? I love it as it actually encourages teamwork. You can actually get team work to work more often as you just go in the order that is needed. instead of hoping you roll in the right order.

Ditto. I like the flow of the way initiative works in this system. It's dofferent and plays into the narrative aspect well.

 

 

For me, I don't like Astrogation.

Yeah... I rolled it into "Computers" and "Knowledges" personally. Computers for make the "plot courses" rolls, Know for knowing about systems and hyperspace routes.

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I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

 

The biggest rules problem my group and I have run into is soak and the marauder specialization. One player picked a Trandoshan marauder and was pretty much invulnerable to blaster fire. His character also made the game much more difficult to plan encounters for and manage. Basically how do i challenge the marauder without killing the rest of the group. Removal of the marauder specialization was the solution. My group and I don't like the soak rules, but they are so intertwined with the rest of the rules that we have left them alone and implemented the WFRP rule: A Successful hit always does 1 point of damage, even if the target would soak all of the damage. Although that rule isn't needed so much now that the player who was playing the marauder retired it in favor of a politico.

 

I have a few other rules nitpicks, but nothing so major as the problem i mentioned above.

 

I make my PCs and NPCs be in cover or take cover when throwing grenades from short range or suffer from the blast damage.

 

I also apply a boost die to attackers against targets who use aim in a firefight based on the circumstances. Mostly if they are standing in the open aiming.

 

All in all EotE was a really well done game and most of the rules are pretty solid and can be removed or house ruled easily.

 

Naleax

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what is wrong with soak? That is how armor actually works, it spreads out and soaks up damage before it damages the person. I have actually used armor and experienced this.

We are playing a space fantasy...

Edited by Daeglan
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I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

 

The biggest rules problem my group and I have run into is soak and the marauder specialization. One player picked a Trandoshan marauder and was pretty much invulnerable to blaster fire. His character also made the game much more difficult to plan encounters for and manage. Basically how do i challenge the marauder without killing the rest of the group. Removal of the marauder specialization was the solution. My group and I don't like the soak rules, but they are so intertwined with the rest of the rules that we have left them alone and implemented the WFRP rule: A Successful hit always does 1 point of damage, even if the target would soak all of the damage. Although that rule isn't needed so much now that the player who was playing the marauder retired it in favor of a politico.

Marauder with high soak... Hit him with a weapon that does Stun (Active). Totally ignores Soak and odds are he won't have as high a strain threshold as wound threshold.

 

Example, Shock Gloves do Stun 3. that's 3 strain that is ignoring his soak when activated. There are always ways to challenge someone who's specialized in one direction without overcompensating and TPKing the party.

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I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, oh yeah... hang on, let get my notes...

:D

 

If you think the rules are so awful, why play the game? Why post on these forums? I'm sure there are lots of places you can pick up the Saga edition or something, that should be more your style.

 

Don't conflate having a laundry list of problems with the rules as not liking the system as a whole. I see too many people make the mistake of thinking that complaints mean someone should ditch the game, like someone abandoning ship because they've found some leaks that can be plugged.

 

Initiative.

 

I love the rest of the book, but initiative gives me fits. Individual initiative/Mob initiative , Nemesis/Rival, Initiative or not?

 

I frankly hate the way initiative is handled.

I'm not a fan of the way initiative gets handled in regards to the dice--for instance, the Vigilance skill's description mentions effects for Threat and Despair, but when the only check you're really ever using it for is a Simple difficulty, how do you generate those?

This is also problematic when a group is getting ambushed/doing the ambushing, as there really doesn't appear to be any mechanical way of representing that fairly common circumstance.

 

I'd prefer if There were a difficulty we were actually rolling against based on circumstances.

 

I'd really like the rules to give some better examples (or any at all) of difficulty levels, when to add Setbacks, and when to upgrade for every skill in the book. Some of that is just too nebulous right now.

 

I think the cover rules could use some revision.

 

We could use some better mechanics bridging personal and vehicle combat.

 

I agree that Astrogation is kind of crappy, especially when we see most jumps being handled by a Navicomputer.

 

It would be nice to have some rules or guidelines for languages.

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I think soak should be a more expensive resource to increase. It's quite easy to make a soak monster that can turn around and be quite formidable offensively.

Edited by kaosoe
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what is wrong with soak? That is how armor actually works, it spreads out and soaks up damage before it damages the person. I have actually used armor and experienced this.

We are playing a space fantasy...

I have no problem with armor soaking. Your are correct, that is how armor works. I have a problem with brawn+talents+armor can  makes 9 or 10 soak characters. Not even a blaster rifles raw damage will hurt them. It's just a bit ridiculous when the soak gets that high and it doesn't make any sense that a blaster rifle will even scratch someone with soak 9. The marauder is the case in point, and once we removed it, the game balanced back out. 

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I think soak should be a more expensive resource to increase. It's quite easy to make a soak monster that can turn around and be quite formidable offensively.

 

Agree 110%

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theres a few issues with the way the game tells you to use obligation. i like the idea of it especially since it makes players not think of their characters as flawless.

 

and not really something i think is neccesarily a problem but i felt like the Bounty Hunter - Survivalist would do much better against creatures than the Explorer - Big Game Hunter.  Not game breaking but would make the hunter feel a bit depressed about how we went about with his career goals. Big Game Hunter is still cool though

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I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

 

The biggest rules problem my group and I have run into is soak and the marauder specialization. One player picked a Trandoshan marauder and was pretty much invulnerable to blaster fire. His character also made the game much more difficult to plan encounters for and manage. Basically how do i challenge the marauder without killing the rest of the group. Removal of the marauder specialization was the solution. My group and I don't like the soak rules, but they are so intertwined with the rest of the rules that we have left them alone and implemented the WFRP rule: A Successful hit always does 1 point of damage, even if the target would soak all of the damage. Although that rule isn't needed so much now that the player who was playing the marauder retired it in favor of a politico.

Marauder with high soak... Hit him with a weapon that does Stun (Active). Totally ignores Soak and odds are he won't have as high a strain threshold as wound threshold.

 

Example, Shock Gloves do Stun 3. that's 3 strain that is ignoring his soak when activated. There are always ways to challenge someone who's specialized in one direction without overcompensating and TPKing the party.

 

 

I was doing this. Every combat encounter turned into a gimmick just to challenge the marauder. I was always having to put a gimmick in to either keep the nemesis alive, protect the other players and make the encounter interesting enough that everyone in the party would have fun. It grew tiresome, not only for me but for the players as well.

 

A fair bit of metagaming came into play as well as the marauder knew he was invulnerable to most types of damage and it didn't make sense to me that the NPCs would immediately switch to stun setting on seeing the marauder. I mean seriously if thats not metagaming....

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 I mean seriously if thats not metagaming....

 

But isn't that what the player is doing? And as GM you have a much bigger bag of tricks than the player does. Glop grenades, pit traps, stun weapons or sonic weapons, multiple enemies, and on and on. If the marauder wants to be the center of attention I am more than happy to accommodate him.

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I won't be "fixing it" in my game but I have to agree Soak gets high fast if the Player wants it to.

For my money though it's that Base Soak gets too high too quickly. I know it's meant to be cinematic and represent the characters being able to survive Blaster fights (like in the movies) but I'm not sure it really does that. Base Soak vastly outweighs putting on armor (unless you grab a few Talents) and even then in our game our BH had a higher Base than his armor (his base was a 6 his armor was a 4 I think) and he didn't even really build up it's Soak.

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If Soak didn't increase with increased Brawn, that might solve part of this problem. Sure it's likely to still be 4 base before talents and equipment, possibly 5, but it means that getting it up there is going to be more costly at the get go, and you won't be getting more out of Dedication, which, in turn, may also encourage some Marauder-types to invest elsewhere.

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