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Harleigh

Range measurement clarification

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I am hoping that we can get a clarification on the Heavy Laser Cannon in a turret.  If a ship has part of its base at range 1, but the rest of its base at range 2, can the Heavy Laser Cannon turret still fire at it?

 

 

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It depends on whether or not the part that is in range 1 is also in the attacking ship's firing arc.

 

You measure from the closest point in the firing arc from the base of the attacking ship, to the closest point of the base of the target ship.

 

In the case of a turret you just measure the closest points, disregarding the firing arc.

Edited by LemonheadPrime

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According to the Outrider title card attacking outside your firing arc is optional (may). You are entitled to attack inside your firing arc only. If that results in range 2 you can attack that way.

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According to the Outrider title card attacking outside your firing arc is optional (may). You are entitled to attack inside your firing arc only. If that results in range 2 you can attack that way.

No, you can't. You must always take the closest measurement. There is no choice on that. If the closest points between ships is at Range 1, then that's the range. You don't measure from your fire arc in order to increase the range.

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According to the Outrider title card attacking outside your firing arc is optional (may). You are entitled to attack inside your firing arc only. If that results in range 2 you can attack that way.

No, you can't. You must always take the closest measurement. There is no choice on that. If the closest points between ships is at Range 1, then that's the range. You don't measure from your fire arc in order to increase the range.

 

Actually it's not as simple as taking just the closest to closest point, it must be taking into account your firing arc, from Page 10 of the rulebook

 

"To measure range, place the Range 1 end of the

range ruler so that it touches the closest part

of the attacker’s base. Then point the ruler toward

the closest part of the target ship’s base that is

inside the attacker’s firing arc. The lowest section (1,

2, or 3) of the ruler that overlaps the target ship’s

base is considered the range between the ships."

 

LTC

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While that is correct under normal circumstances, the OP was asking how that works in conjunction with a Heavy Laser Cannon in a turret. That's where the arc is ignored for range measurement, and it becomes closest point to closest point.

Also, from the FAQ regarding ships "At" X Range:

“At” means the closest part of the target’s base touches that range section. For example, when attacking a ship whose base touches both Range 2 and Range 3, that ship is at Range 2.

Edited by Parravon

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Um, how do you get an HLC in a Turret?  I was under the impression that non-turret secondary weapons can only fire in a ships primary arc.

 

z6E50dL.png

 

Excellent, Thanks.  I haven't seen all of the 2400's cards yet.  So if I'm reading that correctly, if an HLC is equipped, an Outrider wouldn't be able to target someone at range 1, excluding a range 1 missile. I guess you better keep your distance.

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While that is correct under normal circumstances, the OP was asking how that works in conjunction with a Heavy Laser Cannon in a turret.

Precisely.

 

The "may perform ... attacks ... outside your firing arc" effect of the Outrider title card is optional. You are not forced to use it. For this particular attack, you choose not to use that effect from the Outrider title card. Result: You cannot measure outside your firing arc.

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While that is correct under normal circumstances, the OP was asking how that works in conjunction with a Heavy Laser Cannon in a turret.

Precisely.

 

The "may perform ... attacks ... outside your firing arc" effect of the Outrider title card is optional. You are not forced to use it. For this particular attack, you choose not to use that effect from the Outrider title card. Result: You cannot measure outside your firing arc.

You would think so, and it has been argued that way in the past, but the FAQ specifically says that you cannot do that. When using a turret weapon you always measure closest point to closest point even if you could get a different range by measuring in arc.

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While that is correct under normal circumstances, the OP was asking how that works in conjunction with a Heavy Laser Cannon in a turret.

Precisely.

 

The "may perform ... attacks ... outside your firing arc" effect of the Outrider title card is optional. You are not forced to use it. For this particular attack, you choose not to use that effect from the Outrider title card. Result: You cannot measure outside your firing arc.

You would think so, and it has been argued that way in the past, but the FAQ specifically says that you cannot do that. When using a turret weapon ...

That's the catch. You are not using a turret weapon.

 

You use the HLC and the mandatory "cannot use primary weapon" part of the outrider title card. Nothing else.

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While that is correct under normal circumstances, the OP was asking how that works in conjunction with a Heavy Laser Cannon in a turret.

Precisely.

 

The "may perform ... attacks ... outside your firing arc" effect of the Outrider title card is optional. You are not forced to use it. For this particular attack, you choose not to use that effect from the Outrider title card. Result: You cannot measure outside your firing arc.

You would think so, and it has been argued that way in the past, but the FAQ specifically says that you cannot do that. When using a turret weapon ...

That's the catch. You are not using a turret weapon.

 

You use the HLC and the mandatory "cannot use primary weapon" part of the outrider title card. Nothing else.

 

 

The rule for turret primary weapons uses the same "may" that the Outrider title uses.

 

 

When attacking with a turret primary weapon, a ship may target an enemy ship inside or outside its firing arc. When attacking with a secondary weapon, the ship must still target a ship inside its firing arc (unless specified otherwise on the Upgrade card).

 

The word "may" is used so that turrets do not prohibit you from attacking a ship inside your arc. There is no reason to interpret the rules for the Outrider title differently than the rules for turret primaries. The Outrider must measure from its closest point, whether that be inside or outside of its arc.

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The word "may" is used so that turrets do not prohibit you from attacking a ship inside your arc. There is no reason to interpret the rules for the Outrider title differently than the rules for turret primaries. The Outrider must measure from its closest point, whether that be inside or outside of its arc.

 

Have to agree with this.

 

Turrets are a serious mess from top to bottom, but the wording for the Outrider isn't any different than any other turrets.  We had the same discussion over the YT-1300+Tactician, and that was where it landed.

Edited by Buhallin

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So to clarify, if the closest part of the targeted ship is range 1, then the whole ship counts as range 1.  Thank you for the help on this, it is greatly appreciated

That is correct.  Barrel Roll is your friend for the Outrider title + HLC.

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