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Saevus2

TB and Semi/Full Auto

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Hey guys, my group just picked up Only War to try out the FF 40k series and are just in the process of doing small play test and messing with the rules before our big play test in a week.

 

 

That being said, had a question in regards to TB and Semi/Full Auto shots:

 

Semi auto shots generate an additional hit per 2 DoS up to the number in the profile and full auto generate an additional hit per 1 DoS up to the number in the profile.

 

Are these hits generated, resolved just like a normal hit ie. say the attack does 1D10, and the semi auto generates 3 hits. The first one hits the chest for 1D10, the second hits the chest for 1D10, the third hits the arm for 1D10. Does each hit get reduced by AP/TB then damage applied?

 

Or do you stack it out at 3D10, then apply AP/TB?

 

Or Do you stack the two that hit the chest, but not the arm?

 

The question came up because the PCs are fighting Orks in our test campaign and they have true grit, giving them extreme durability once they hit 0 wounds. So the thought was jam more rounds into them, and several of the players assumed 3 x hits = 3D10. Reading the rules, it seems to me, it goes out of the way to explain that it generates additional hits, which would seem to me to mean AP/TB soaks each hit, especially given armor varies based on zone hit.

 

 

Just curious if anyone out there is able to clarify this for us. We really appreciate it. So far looks like a decent system. Can't wait to get into our full test campaign next week.

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Each hit applies AP/TB separately. So this is the right call:

 

Are these hits generated, resolved just like a normal hit ie. say the attack does 1D10, and the semi auto generates 3 hits. The first one hits the chest for 1D10, the second hits the chest for 1D10, the third hits the arm for 1D10. Does each hit get reduced by AP/TB then damage applied?

 

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Orks are maybe not the best test-subjects to try your new flashlights... ehh I mean Lasguns on, because as you said true grit makes them really hard to kill, especially for low-level characters.

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Yep, all shots are calculated separately for TP/AP reduction. Also AFB but there was multiple hits chart that is easy to use when determining where same Semi/Full auto attacks hits are going.

 

For Flashlight, oops Lasguns, to do good damage againts Orks use variable setting. This can be overlooked many times.

 

I usually use True Grit only on special Meks, Nobs and Boss characters I want my players to have tough time to kill. Other times when Boys go to 0 wounds they are killed.

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Not meaning to start this discussion again, but Orks who die at 0 Wounds are not Orks. They are literally big human beings with axes functionally. They are not harder to kill than Guardsmen. Without True Grit in play, they are not Orks. This is like Eldar without Unnatural Agility. It changes the feel of the creature and encountering them completely, changing Orks from a deadly threat to a joke (makes them into Gretchen actually).

 

If you want players to mow down enemies a la superheroes that's fine; you're just definitely not playing the game as designed.

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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Not meaning to start this discussion again, but Orks who die at 0 Wounds are not Orks.

While I'd prefer to be less bombastic about it, I largely agree with this sentiment.

 

It is however worth noting, that True Grit specifies that crits get atleast 1 worse for each hit (that gets through the base TB+Armour). So eventually, even lasguns will wear down orks.

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This is the internet. Macho posturing is required! :)

 

Orks cannot function as they are supposed to without True Grit in play (or some substitute, like tripling their Wounds, which will have roughly the same effect). They're close-combat fighters in a universe with guns. Without their superhuman resiliance, this won't work. They will be mowed down like crazy naked human beings with swords charging a gun line -- which is what they effectively will be.

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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Yep, it's Orks vs. Eldar. Eldar don't want to get hit, but that's fine, because they are like Neo, and will weave around hits, while Orks just don't care, and shrug them off; you don't get all those scars, and show that you're the biggest, the best, by getting knocked down by a single shot of...well, anything. Not sure if Eldar can dodge and parry as well and repeatedly as Orks can soak, but it is how they SHOULD work.

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We made that call pretty early. Orks with true grit, soak ammo, are hard to kill and just generally are a challenge. Seems to me that is the spirit of fighting Orks. If I want to one shot blast things, I'll just throw some traitor guardsmen at them. 

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So, the Ork chatter is fun, but I'll hop onto my Eldar comment just a second, before the Waagh! eats the thread, again ;) As I said, I imagine Eldar being quick, evasive, and darting in, doing their damage, and skittering away, avoiding attacks as they go. RAW how well does this work? I remember the hatred for Ascension on the DH threads, and one very worthy gripe was the ever-dodging Vindicare. When you aren't that guy, though, I assume you can't weave forever, so do Eldar just have to play like every other non-Ork, and hug cover like they aren't fast and agile-dodgy, or can they cover enough ground, weave through some attacks, do their thing, and then get back to some cover, to start the next turn, with their dodges refreshed? It's not a rules mechanic I ever committed to memory well, not playing the game, yet. I can appreciate that Orks get to just stand there, and shrug off hits like they are nothing, but I'll be a little sad if the Eldar, who don't do that, have to play more like Humans, and cower behind bulwarks, trying to shoot the Humans, doing the same, with their shuriken catapults, when I like to think that their high Agility + Unn Ag should mean something. The books can describe them, and their Dark kin murdering heavy weapons emplacements and artillery groups with contemptuous ease, but these can throw withering volleys of firepower, as the initial part of this thread seems to cover, and I don't know if they'd survive well. Granted, in TT, they DO have to play like other armies do, and their high Agility doesn't magically give them a 4++ or 5++ save, but Orks aren't hard to kill there, either; they die in single hits, too.

Edited by venkelos

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Well most (IIRC) Eldar have the talent which allows them to make an additional Reaction (as in, dodge/parry) per turn. So if you have your squad of PCs firing at a squad of Dark Eldar, each enemy can dodge two separate attacks AND attack/move like nothing happened. 

 

This is on top of their crazy high agility and AG bonuses, so really, each Dark Eldar should be sprinting around the battlefield, taking shots, dodging twice, and then charging into melee the next turn. Keep in mind that a moving target is -20 to hit to begin with. Then they have their stealth...

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Another thing I like to do with eldar, especially in Deathwatch, is make the guardians part of a master strategy to get the specialized units where they need to go. So the guardians are taking cover and firing their heavy weapons at the kill team, the Sgt finally rallies his men to break cover and get his heavy gunner to blow the heavy weapon up with a krak missile but just as soon as she pops her head out there's a group of dire avengers firing a hail of shuriken (bolts? Darts?) From the flank, then the guardians swoop in to take the bunker/kill the VIP because he was going to destroy a planet in the future or something.

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