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Haldir and Dunhere

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If i had these to in the same deck could each hero attack the same enemy in the staging area at different times of the combat phase? So, could haldir make an attack and then Dunhere make an attack?

The rulebook states that you can only declare 1 attack on each enemy engaged. It does not comment on how many attacks can be declared if the enemy is not engaged.

Dunhere text does say if he attacks alone, but i read Haldir like Quick Strike which can grant an additional attack on the same enemy in the same combat phase.

Further, can Haldir attack an enemy that engaged the previous round cor the normal attack, and then attack it again using his combat action, as long as no new enemies were engaged that round?

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I'm not suggesting combining them.

 

Let's say Haldir attacks the enemy in the staging area at the beginning of the combat phase, and then Dunhere makes his attack on the same enemy in the staging area later in the combat phase.

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I wondered the same thing as soon as I saw Haldir's ability, but the FAQ prevents it:

 


"If, through card effects such as ranged, a player is able

to declare attacks against enemies with which he is

not engaged, he is still only permitted a single attack

against each of these enemies."

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Dunhere can declare an attack, but Haldir is an action that declare him as an attacker, like Swift  Quick Strike. Thus Dunhere count towards your attack limit, but not Haldir, you are just exhausting him, not making a regular attack.

Edited by alogos

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Nope, i would love this to work too, but if you read grandspleen his quote, you can't do this.

Haldir is a card effect, and so there is no chance for a second attack according to this FAQ rule.

Shame though.

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Interesting, I don't play 2 player, but I always thought player 1 could exhaust a ranged character and play quickstrike on an enemey engaged with player 2 and then ready that character and then declare a ranged attack on the same enemy during player 1 combat phase, and ready again to participate in an attack declared by player 2 on the same enemy

Sorry if I am completely bashing these rules, it's been a long time since playing 2 player

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Nope, i would love this to work too, but if you read grandspleen his quote, you can't do this.

Haldir is a card effect, and so there is no chance for a second attack according to this FAQ rule.

Shame though.

 

the rest of the quote 

 

 

Characters are not limited as to how many times they

can participate in attacks against the same enemy,

provided each attack can be legally declared, and the

character is ready and eligible to be declared as an

attacker.

 

 

The limitation of attack's declaration is thoses made by players.

In case of Haldir and Quick Strike, the player does not declare an attack, those you bypass the limit.

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Okay, to sum it up, a player controlling both Haldir and Dunhere can attack the same enemy in the staging area at different times during the combat phase.

chuckles likes this

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Nope, i would love this to work too, but if you read grandspleen his quote, you can't do this.

Haldir is a card effect, and so there is no chance for a second attack according to this FAQ rule.

Shame though.

 

the rest of the quote 

 

 

Characters are not limited as to how many times they

can participate in attacks against the same enemy,

provided each attack can be legally declared, and the

character is ready and eligible to be declared as an

attacker.

 

The limitation of attack's declaration is thoses made by players.

In case of Haldir and Quick Strike, the player does not declare an attack, those you bypass the limit.

Eh? That's odd. Doesn't this contradict the 1st part of the quote grandspleen posted completely?

Confused camel here....

How about we ask Caleb to be sure?

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Guys, guys, guys.  Haldir and Quick Strike both make you "declare" an attack.  It's in the card text!  There is no bypass from Declaration Highway here.  

 

Interesting, I don't play 2 player, but I always thought player 1 could exhaust a ranged character and play quickstrike on an enemey engaged with player 2 and then ready that character and then declare a ranged attack on the same enemy during player 1 combat phase, and ready again to participate in an attack declared by player 2 on the same enemy

 

 

Then for this: Player 1 has an Orc engaged.  Player 2 has a ranged Elf.  He can use Quickstrike, exhaust Mr. Elf, and attack Player 1's Orc.  That is one attack declaration.  Then if he can ready Mr. Elf, he can participate in an attack declared by Player 1 against the same Orc.  He cannot, however, declare his own new attack against the same Orc even if he can be readied a third time.

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Dunhere can declare an attack, but Haldir is an action that declare him as an attacker, like Swift  Quick Strike. Thus Dunhere count towards your attack limit, but not Haldir, you are just exhausting him, not making a regular attack.

 

Yeah, I think this is correct, going off the (almost) identical wording to Quick Strike and this clarification from Nate.

 

EDIT: I don't think this:

 

"If, through card effects such as ranged, a player is able
to declare attacks against enemies with which he is
not engaged, he is still only permitted a single attack
against each of these enemies."

 

applies to Haldir or Quick Strike because that refers to declaring attacks using the standard game framework.

Edited by blinky

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applies to Haldir or Quick Strike because that refers to declaring attacks using the standard game framework.

 

 

On the other hand, 'immune' cards can be affected by Quick Strike, and the entire justification behind this in the FAQ is that Quick Strike, unlike Hands Upon the Bow, simply enables a standard game framework effect (declaring an attack).  So if Quick Strike falls into the 'framework effect' category, these limits should apply, yes?

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applies to Haldir or Quick Strike because that refers to declaring attacks using the standard game framework.

 

 

On the other hand, 'immune' cards can be affected by Quick Strike, and the entire justification behind this in the FAQ is that Quick Strike, unlike Hands Upon the Bow, simply enables a standard game framework effect (declaring an attack).  So if Quick Strike falls into the 'framework effect' category, these limits should apply, yes?

 

 

Yes, they probably should.  :)

 

Except that they're already ruled you can use Quick Strike to attack the same enemy twice.

 

Could you argue that it's the declaration (rather than the attack as a whole) that is limited, and that Quick Strike performs the declaration as a card effect? I'm not sure at this point!

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Well, that ruling from Nate is 2 years old and doesn't appear in the FAQ.  The designers previously ruled that Hands Upon the Bow could be used to target immune enemies (now it cannot) and that shadow cards did not count as "encounter cards" (now they do).  We'll just have to wait and see what Caleb says.

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While we wait for an answer, here's another question for you: say you've got Merry/Pippin/Sam or some such deck.  If you were to play Hobbit-sense...

 

Hobbit-sense.png

 

Would you say you could then use Quick Strike to attack enemies?  Or if you played this, then got Haldir from another player via Desperate Alliance, would it be a legal play to use his ability to attack enemies (provided they were already engaged this turn)?

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While we wait for an answer, here's another question for you: say you've got Merry/Pippin/Sam or some such deck.  If you were to play Hobbit-sense...

 

Hobbit-sense.png

 

Would you say you could then use Quick Strike to attack enemies?  Or if you played this, then got Haldir from another player via Desperate Alliance, would it be a legal play to use his ability to attack enemies (provided they were already engaged this turn)?

 

 

Looks like it cannot since "cannot" is the strongest wording on cards we know so far. So it always has higher priority. Next to that other players can always declare ranged attacks on the enemies engaged with you, you just cannot participate in those attacks yourself.

What you can do, is use "Quick Strike" in any phase but the combat phase. For Example, you use "Quick Strike" in "encounter phase" or "refresh phase".

 

Grtz, Jban

 

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And here's the answer :

 

 

The limitations on attacks has to do with the number of attacks the game itself grants each player against an enemy each round. The extra language in the FAQ that reads: “If, through card effects such as ranged, a player is able to declare attacks against enemies with which he is not engaged, he is still only permitted a single attack against each of these enemies” is there because the core rules insert does not address the issues of ranged attacks. It simply reads: “A player has the opportunity to declare 1 attack against each enemy with which he is engaged.” So FAQ item 1.11 is meant to clarify that you are also limited to 1 attack against enemies you are not engaged with.
But again, those are attacks made via the Attacking Enemies step of the combat phase. Card effects such as Quick Strike and Haldir are special abilities that grant attacks in addition to the normal attacks granted by the combat phase. That means you can use Quick Strike to attack an enemy that you have already attacked that phase.

 

Maybe I should ask for GrandSpleen's question too, because it was not an answer about player declaring or character declaring.

I would say you cannot use extra attack's cards when playing Hobbit Sense however.

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