Are Jedi making us expect too much?

[fjw70 305]

This is an issue with Star Wars RPGs in general for me. I want full-fledged Jedi but I want them to be significantly more powerful the non-force users. One reason I haven't done a lot of Star Wars gaming.

[Rakaydos 4,173]

This is an issue with Star Wars RPGs in general for me. I want full-fledged Jedi but I want them to be significantly more powerful the non-force users. One reason I haven't done a lot of Star Wars gaming.

Play a high XP all jedi game, and have the NPCs be low level (but numerous!) mundanes.

[Ankiseth 0]

I think the rules, with the right revisions, support very well this kind of gaming....

[fjw70 305]

This is an issue with Star Wars RPGs in general for me. I want full-fledged Jedi but I want them to be significantly more powerful the non-force users. One reason I haven't done a lot of Star Wars gaming.

Play a high XP all jedi game, and have the NPCs be low level (but numerous!) mundanes.

The problem is not everyone I game with wants to be a Jedi.

[Rakaydos 4,173]

 

 

This is an issue with Star Wars RPGs in general for me. I want full-fledged Jedi but I want them to be significantly more powerful the non-force users. One reason I haven't done a lot of Star Wars gaming.

Play a high XP all jedi game, and have the NPCs be low level (but numerous!) mundanes.

The problem is not everyone I game with wants to be a Jedi.

 

So either you are a weak force user, or you are a jedi with badass friends. (low XP vs High XP)

 

Another approach, is to NOT spend your racial XP on stats. That gives you a hundred or so extra XP that the rest of the party doesnt get, and means you're rolling one or two less dice, at least until skills go up.

[mouthymerc 4,480]

This is an issue with Star Wars RPGs in general for me. I want full-fledged Jedi but I want them to be significantly more powerful the non-force users. One reason I haven't done a lot of Star Wars gaming.

Play a high XP all jedi game, and have the NPCs be low level (but numerous!) mundanes.

The problem is not everyone I game with wants to be a Jedi.

You want your Jedi character to be more powerful than the non-Force characters and you can't find anyone to play that game with? You should play with Erik. You guys could take turns GMing each other's super-duper uberJedi and play out all those power fantasies. Edited August 24, 2014 by mouthymerc

[Rakaydos 4,173]

Please excuse Mouthymerc... the user Sylpheed (eric) is a reccouring troll on that topic, and many users patience is wearing thin.

 

I would suggest a knight level game and using human XP to get Force rating 3 (Sage or Mystic)  and some flashy powers, like a well upgraded Move, while the mundanes can cover skill checks and ability scores. You wont be as good with a lightsaber as the wookie is with his vibroax, but who cares when your throwing starfighters at people (sometimes).

[Shakespearian_Soldier 502]

Rakaydos is right. Knight level play gives you a lightsaber and 300 XP extra to spend on things. That should be enough to make you awesome without being unbalanced.

[mouthymerc 4,480]

Rakaydos is right. Knight level play gives you a lightsaber and 300 XP extra to spend on things. That should be enough to make you awesome without being unbalanced.

I got the impression that he doesn't want balance. So he would need to find a game where he starts with Knight level play for him and everyone else starts normal. Don't want the muggles showing up the wizards.

[Rakaydos 4,173]

 

Rakaydos is right. Knight level play gives you a lightsaber and 300 XP extra to spend on things. That should be enough to make you awesome without being unbalanced.

I got the impression that he doesn't want balance. So he would need to find a game where he starts with Knight level play for him and everyone else starts normal. Don't want the muggles showing up the wizards.

 

The trick to that is to play to your strengths. Sure, you normals can shoot a gun... who cant? heck, I've got one too, but why use it when I've got the Influence and Move trees and 3 force dice to play with? Enemy? Throw a car at them. Locked door? lightsaber. Someone suspicius? "Not the jedi you're looking for."

 

You could almost do a 2 force die version in a basic level game, with human XP, Morality/Obligation XP, and a specialty that gets you the force die for 70 XP. 50 XP left for powers and skills to use them.

[mouthymerc 4,480]

The trick to that is to play to your strengths. Sure, you normals can shoot a gun... who cant? heck, I've got one too, but why use it when I've got the Influence and Move trees and 3 force dice to play with? Enemy? Throw a car at them. Locked door? lightsaber. Someone suspicius? "Not the jedi you're looking for."

 

 

You could almost do a 2 force die version in a basic level game, with human XP, Morality/Obligation XP, and a specialty that gets you the force die for 70 XP. 50 XP left for powers and skills to use them.

 

I totally agree. My problem is when someone thinks their Force character (Jedi) should be head and shoulders above other characters of similar ability (XP value) which in this system would mean starting Force characters at "Knight" level (or something similar) while everyone elso starts mundane (at normal level). All just because they use the Force.

[Shakespearian_Soldier 502]

If that's the kind of game they want, then let them have it! For the rest of us, the game is perfectly suited as is.

[mouthymerc 4,480]

If that's the kind of game they want, then let them have it! For the rest of us, the game is perfectly suited as is.

Oh absolutely. As it stands now it can be done. As I said, just give out more XP to the Jedi than to the rest. And if you have players that are content with that great. But to have an expectation for an imbalance of power seems silly to me. It is much easier to unbalance a balanced system than balance an unbalanced system.

Edited August 25, 2014 by mouthymerc

[Jedi Master Gunner 12]

I know this argument comes up all the time on these boards, but we shouldn't compare the main characters of the Prequel Trilogy with B1 droids or Rebel Trooper 23. The PCs are all starring roles. Some will want to have fight scenes and some intrigue or romance. I think you could do a game like the Old Republic Hope trailer with the awesome Republic trooper. Just Recognize that, even though he is wearing white armor, he has 600 XP like the Jedi and the Sith in the fight.

 

Give all the players the same starting XP. Everyone should get the same opportunity to be great at their chosen specialty. There are people who will spend 300 XP on Intelligence, Computers, and Slicer talents and not invest in blasters or miss the Force at all.

 

Also, one thing that is overlooked is that this is a dangerous time to be throwing starfighters about. With the minion rules it is easy to kill a handful of Stormtroopers. It is harder to do the same with a squad of Stormtrooper Sgts. And when the Inquisitor shows up, with a squad of Sgts, things are going to get hairy. Force users can throw fighters in this system, but that probably won't contribute to a long life.

[Shakespearian_Soldier 502]

That is only being overlooked by one individual on here; the rest of us are keenly aware of the game's chosen time period, and the resultant limitations that said time frame places on the Jedi.

[Sylpheed 82]

The force unleashed is set more or less in this period and it didn't slow down the Jedi action.

Being hunted just means you get to look more badass when you overpower your attackers.

[UncleArkie 67]

Yer, but it's not relegated to two steps below canon, it's just fancy fan-fiction. So basically what you want is the Jedi version of 50 shades of grey (started out as twilight fan fiction)?

[DanteRotterdam 3,250]

It should be painfully obvious to anyone still following Erik's brainfarts, that not playing a game basically makes you talk complete crap about what your expectations of it are.

[evileeyore 451]

Good lord how did I miss this juicy schadenfreude? I loves me some good stupid bashing...

My preferred game includes this catch phrase: "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

[Sylpheed 82]

My preferred game includes this catch phrase: "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

I think it would be kinda dumb to make a game where people play Jedi that subscribes to that philosophy.

[UncleArkie 67]

 

My preferred game includes this catch phrase: "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

I think it would be kinda dumb to make a game where people play Jedi that subscribes to that philosophy.

 

But we're not playing Jedi, there are only two of those during this setting, Luke and Yoda. Our characters can want to be Jedi, hunt for Jedi secrets scattered throughout the Galaxy, we're Jedi fanboys. Also a force user who doesn't believe in the Force makes for a great character IMO.

[Jedi Ronin 1,239]

Having played the first session last night with my newly-updated Smuggler/Scoundrel/Force Emergent/Ataru Striker (opted to go for 'saber badassery vs. Niman's Force prowess) and being at 300+ XP at the moment, I certainly felt that Valin was deserving of the "minor Jedi" moniker.  It's true that he's not the most dominant badass in the party (the Wookiee Commando and Chiss Tactician have that covered by a country mile), but he's certainly become quite capable with a blend of 'saber prowess and Force powers.  I've not bought that far into the Ataru Striker tree yet (just have on instance of Parry and Reflect as well as the Dodge talent), but he was pretty capable in a fight, a marked change from where he started several months ago.  And as someone that has played over-the-top Jedi PCs in prior systems, it's nice to see both the progression and the hint of potential yet to be realized instead (much as you did in D6) vs. the "start out awesome and go from there" that was an issue with Saga Edition.

 

So I think it is a case of that while you're not going to be playing those badass Jedi we saw in the movies right away, there is the potential to get there.  As Master Yoda said, we must learn patience.

 

Do you think the XP cost sunk into just getting access to various Specializations is too much?

60 XP with your build just to access talents and Skills?

[mouthymerc 4,480]

 

But we're not playing Jedi, there are only two of those during this setting, Luke and Yoda. Our characters can want to be Jedi, hunt for Jedi secrets scattered throughout the Galaxy, we're Jedi fanboys. Also a force user who doesn't believe in the Force makes for a great character IMO.

 

Yes we are playing Jedi if that is what we want to do. Luke and Yoda are just two examples of Jedi. If in your game you want them to be the only Jedi that is wonderful, but others may want their characters to be the last Jedi.

[mouthymerc 4,480]

 

Do you think the XP cost sunk into just getting access to various Specializations is too much?

60 XP with your build just to access talents and Skills?

 

i think it was only 40XP. It was only the third spec.

[Sylpheed 82]

I guess in the end is this supposed to be a grudging concession that someone will insist on playing a guy with a lightsaber in games of Edge off the Empire, or Force and Destiny, the place to go if you thought Darth Maul was cool and want to do that in TTRPG form?