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rabarno

Scum and Villainy Most Wanted Expantion Question

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It's a conversion kit to let you use Scum and Villainy, not a set of rebel ships. They are being nice by giving us double Y-wings and all people are doing is complaining they aren't getting enough stuff.

 

It's not really double Y wings.  If you dont have the dials/tiles to fly two of them together in a squad its just another ship for a different faction. 

Has there been any official word from FFG about the S&V dials not being able to be fielded by their Rebel/Imperial counterparts and vice versa?  Obviously the tiles wouldnt be re-used, but the dials will likely be the same ship to ship.

 

 

 

Most Wanted does not equip you to use the ships for the Rebels. It contains two Z-95s and a Y-wing + requiste cards plus "conversions" (everything but the mini) for a second Y-wing, a Firespray and a HWK. It does not appear to contain Scum to Rebel converts.

 

 

So hypothetical question...

 

I own one z-95.  Let's say I buy the most wanted pack.  Now I have three z-95s.

 

I field a rebel list that has a bandit and cracken.  I have the cards, ships and bases pieces for it, however one dial is rebel and one dial is scum, would it be tourney legal?

 

 

We don't don't know. If they are the same dial it really should be legal, but they may possible say you need to have dials to match your faction.

 

 

I emailed FFG and asked them about using the Ys or Zs as Rebel ships with Scum dials, it would seem the answer is no for official tournament use:

FFG said:

 

 

In response to your tournament rules question:

Rule Question:

Dear FFG,

With the announced release od the Most Wanted pack for X-Wing a lot of people have been asking the same question, namely, in tournaments can you use an S&V Y-Wing or Z-95 as a Rebel ship with a Scum faction dial but appropriate rebel pilot card and base token? And conversely, could you use a normal release Y-Wing as a scum ship using the appropriate Scum pilot card and base token?

 
In tournaments, players will be required to use the appropriately matching dials, cards and punchboard with the faction they are playing. Alternatively, the plastic ships themselves are not required to “match” (i.e. a Scum player can use Rebel painted Y-wings).
 
Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks
Associate Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
 

So no Scum dials for Rebel use of the Most Wanted ships, and no rebel dials to field extra Scum & Villainy Zs, ys or HWKs....

Seems pointlessly restrictive unless the dials are different in any movement terms.

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I emailed FFG and asked them about using the Ys or Zs as Rebel ships with Scum dials, it would seem the answer is no for official tournament use:

FFG said:

 

 

In response to your tournament rules question:

 Rule Question:

Dear FFG,

With the announced release od the Most Wanted pack for X-Wing a lot of people have been asking the same question, namely, in tournaments can you use an S&V Y-Wing or Z-95 as a Rebel ship with a Scum faction dial but appropriate rebel pilot card and base token? And conversely, could you use a normal release Y-Wing as a scum ship using the appropriate Scum pilot card and base token?

 
In tournaments, players will be required to use the appropriately matching dials, cards and punchboard with the faction they are playing. Alternatively, the plastic ships themselves are not required to “match” (i.e. a Scum player can use Rebel painted Y-wings).
 
Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks
Associate Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
 

So no Scum dials for Rebel use of the Most Wanted ships, and no rebel dials to field extra Scum & Villainy Zs, ys or HWKs....

Seems pointlessly restrictive a great way to get you to unless the dials are different in any movement terms a great way to get us to buy more ships.

 

 

Fixed that for you!  :D

 

Honestly that answer is exactly what I expected.

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It doesn't lead me to believe that at all. It leads me to believe that Frank wants the game to run smoothly. Having different dials on one side sounds like a ugly mess to me. You are playing against a rebel player, it just gets messy. All the same makes total sense to me. Keep it simple, keep it the same, keep it easy. Sure it sucks a bit that you gotta buy an extra ship or four. Really it just means buying two Most Wanted packs, not one. It also means that the Z-95s SKUs are effectively faction specific. That's a little weird, but not the end of the world.

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It's the buying extra ships that's annoying me.

I have 4 Y-Wings, i've got some lists that I'm thinking of that need 6 Y-wings (Epic level obviously)

So if I want to play a 6 Rebel Y-Wing list I need to buy 6 Y-Wing expansions.

Say I want to change it up and play a 4 Y-Wing Scum list, i need to own either 2 Most Wanted packs and 2 Rebel Y-Wings to use, or 4 most Wanted packs.

So to beable to field 6 Y-Wings Rebel or Scum factions, I'll need to buy  6 Y-Wings no matter how many Most Wanted I have when really there;s no good reason I can see whay if I used S&V dials for the 5th and 6th Rebel ones.  Where's the decency in making me buy physical Y-wings I don't actually need for the fleet I want to field just because the manoeuvre dials have a skull logo on them rather than a Rebel logo, it's not like I haven't bought enough FFG product is it?

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Franks reply leads me to believe the dials must be slightly different. Those crazy Verpine mechanics can work wonders.

 

The fact they seemed to purposefully avoid saying the dials were the same (or not) is an item of curiosity for me I admit...

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This ensures I'll never play Scum and Villainy in a national level tournament. I don't plan on getting more than 1 conversion kit for that faction, as I already have 4 rebel Y-wings and 6 rebel Z-95. Buying 3-4 conversion kits would be ultra overkill. I guess for store events and casual game, I'll start proxying stuff.

 

Rechecking the preview image in the FFG article about the new faction: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4998

You can see they provide 2 scum Y-Wing dials and 2 scum Z-95 dials. That makes your conversion kit able to "adopt" 1 rebel Y-Wing, but not adopt any rebel Z-95 (since what you need is covered by the conversion box for that ship). It would have been cool if you got a 3rd or even a 4th Z-95 dial.

Edited by Mu0n

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This ensures I'll never play Scum and Villainy in a national level tournament. I don't plan on getting more than 1 conversion kit for that faction, as I already have 4 rebel Y-wings and 6 rebel Z-95. Buying 3-4 conversion kits would be ultra overkill. I guess for store events and casual game, I'll start proxying stuff.

 

This assumes of course that you need Y-wings/Z-95s for a "competitive" S&V list. Scyks, StarVipers, IG-2000s, the new Firesprays and HWKs could be competitive in some combination too.  (Granted even though you have the cards/cardboard for multiple Firesprays/HWKs you need a second set for the dial again)

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It's really a fine balance, isn't it?  Honestly, we're getting a lot more conversion that might be necessary for them to give us.  They could very easily have packed all of the new ships into individual packs with repaints, forcing existing players to re-buy HWKs and Firesprays too.  Instead, we're getting 3 conversion ships essentially for free.

 

Would it be nice to get all possible Y-wing uses in Most Wanted?  Sure...  but the models are the expensive piece, and they have to do something to sell the models.  This is right up there with "sell us packs of upgrades."  Might be nice, but not going to happen.  And again, I think we're getting VERY close to that, all things considered.

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When FFG realised how much PTL and the Interceptor went together they put PTLs in Imperial Aces.

Riiight...  Once they "realized" how good PtL could be on certain Interceptors...  like, oh, Soontir Fel...  But I guess it's understandable, since Tycho was the only one with synergy...  :rolleyes:

 

I can understand defending them, but comments like this really make the choice "slightly manipulative in how cards are packaged in order to sell more ships" or "completely freaking incompetent at designing the game".

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The fact that PTL was available in the A-wing expansion but not TIE/int expansion isn't really the same issue. Every card, token, dial, etc the purchaser received in either the A-wing or the TIE/int expansions could be used with the model that also came in that pack. Were there upgrades in other expansions that could be used, perhaps even best be used, by the ship? Sure. Were there upgrades included in the expansion that could be used on other ships? Absolutely. However, every piece of those expansion packs could be used with just that expansion.


 


In the Most Wanted pack, the purchaser will receive a number of cards, tokens, and dials they can not use without purchasing another expansion. This is new territory for this game.


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In the Most Wanted pack, the purchaser will receive a number of cards, tokens, and dials they can not use without purchasing another expansion. This is new territory for this game.

This is true, but leaves out an important part of the story... Namely that those unusable bits come for free. Cheaper than free, actually.The three apps retail at $45 as individual packs, but Most Wanted is $40. So all the unusable stuff literally costs you negative $5.

There may be some argument about a new Scum player having to buy an Imperial Firespray, but the ship would cost them $30 either way.

Let's not yet and make this anything but what it is: a rare gesture to giving current players with current ships a cheap way to get new pilots.

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Looking at it in a way that I think most people would have been much MUCH happier would have been this:

 

It's likely that if you want to play S&V you would be buying 2 Most wanted sets, that’s a given.

 

The one glaring mistake was that the extra Y-Wing Dial and ship cards should have been an extra Z95 dial and ship cards instead.

 

Now had they done that 2 Most wanted sets would have enough dials and cards for 6 z95s, 2 Y-Wings, 2 HWKs & 2 Firesprays, which is about the right numbers that the ships get played in.

 

What you’re going to get is 4 z95s (not enough) 4 Y-Wings (too many) 2 HWK & 2 Firespray Cards and Dials

 

To compound the issue, if you want to run 5-6 z95s you have 6 Y-Wing Dials & cards (WAY too many)

 

I already have 6 Rebel z95s and don’t want to have to buy 6 more just for the dials and ship cards.

 

PLEASE FFG if you haven’t manufactured them yet, make this one change, I very much doubt this will happen but it feels like they got it wrong.

Edited by Mace Windu

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You say that without knowing anything about the Z-95 pilots or Y-Wing pilots or abilities that are in the kit. Why so quick to judge something you don't really know anything about yet? Wouldn't it be better to wait a bit till the spoil some of the pilots and such? Maybe they got the right balance?

Alternatively, maybe they figure that providing two Z-95s in the package would be more beneficial since it actually means the players don't have to buy the ships, they are right there ready to go. I don't see a lot of 6 Z-95 lists in competition really, so having 4 and 4 make a lot of sense to me with two kits.

In any case, realistically the MOST you could use is 1 'rebel' Z-95 with a Most Wanted pack, since there is only 1 extra ship base in there, and you would be limited with pilot selection. If FFG were making it a full conversion kit, they would have had to add more ship bases, more cards, etc. It would have cost even more. The kit is built to support the two included Z-95s, and two Y-wings, one included, one that you provide the model for.

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You say that without knowing anything about the Z-95 pilots or Y-Wing pilots or abilities that are in the kit. Why so quick to judge something you don't really know anything about yet? Wouldn't it be better to wait a bit till the spoil some of the pilots and such? Maybe they got the right balance?

Alternatively, maybe they figure that providing two Z-95s in the package would be more beneficial since it actually means the players don't have to buy the ships, they are right there ready to go. I don't see a lot of 6 Z-95 lists in competition really, so having 4 and 4 make a lot of sense to me with two kits.

In any case, realistically the MOST you could use is 1 'rebel' Z-95 with a Most Wanted pack, since there is only 1 extra ship base in there, and you would be limited with pilot selection. If FFG were making it a full conversion kit, they would have had to add more ship bases, more cards, etc. It would have cost even more. The kit is built to support the two included Z-95s, and two Y-wings, one included, one that you provide the model for.

 

in terms of not knowing the pilot cards you are right, however unless the they have drastically changed the point values of the generic Y-Wing pilots (i.e. 3 attack for primary weapon) I can never imagine running more than 2 Y-Wings in a list.

 

I have only ever seen 1 list for rebels with 3 Y-Wings in it and certainly never seen a squad with 4 Y-Wings.

 

What I have seen though are several lists that have 5+ z95s in them.

 

I agree that somewhere out there someone who loves their Y-Wings will be happy, but there will be 10 x as many players wishing for their 5th & 6th S&V z95 pilot/ship cards without having to buy an entire MW set to get them (as its likely that 90%+ of most players will have 2 or more rebel z95 models already)

 

I think its a fairly accurate assumption that 2 sets of Most wanted will leave you with not quite enough z95s pilot/ship cards and too many Y-Wings pilot/ship cards.

 

in terms of cost, 2 extra punch card and 2 generic pilot cards is nothing, heck I would pay an extra $5 per set for that happily rather than another $40 for effectively the same thing.

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Gold Squadron pilot here! I regularly run 3-4 Y-Wings and am pleased as punch that 2 Most Wanted sets will allow me to run 4 Scum Y-Wings. In any case, 6 Z-95 bases should be more than enough for most players to get started, as I doubt we'll see the Z-95 completely dominating Scum lists with the Scyk around to compete for the cheap, affordable fighter slot.

I'm pretty sure MW does have 3 Z-95 bases, unless the graphic was deemed incorrect?

Edited by TheTuninator

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Most Wanted has 2 Z-95s, 1.5 Ys, .5 of a Firespray and .5 of a HWK. I don't think it makes much sense to have 2.5 Zs 1 Y and the others in there. That's way out of balance when the M3-A offers a nice alternative cheap fighter.

TheTuninator, that's what I mean by "one extra", three total bases. One for each of the included models and one extra, three in total. So there will only ever be one spare, and that one spare may or may not be the one pilot required for the list.

I'm sure folks will break up Most Wanted sets pretty quickly and part them out online so folks can get just an extra Z95 pair, or just an extra Firespray conversion bit.

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Thanks for the clarification! With 3 Z-95 bases, I really don't think that there will be any problem. As you say, most Scum players are probably not going to be plopping more than 6 Z-95s on the table with the Scyk and a (hopefully) revamped Y-Wing available.

 

In any case, the Y-Wing requires 2 bases minimum to represent the baseline of 4 pilots, so it's not like the set could be redistributed in any way there.

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Not sure which image you’re looking at the one from the official S&V announcement has on 6 dials visible, 2 x z95, 2 x Y-Wing, 1 HWK & 1 Firespray:

 

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4998

 

only 2 of each generic pilot for the z95 and only 2 dials, if you want to run 5 or more S&V z95s you need 3 boxes of Most wanted, the 3rd box containing Y-Wing dials and cards sets 5&6 and Firespray dials & Cards no. 03 all of which you cannot use, and will have no resale value.

 

Edit:

 

To reply to the posts above:

 

So it seems it still not clear to some, there will in fact be 4 z95 2-sided tiles in the pack they will look like this:

 

PS1 Generic/PS7 Unique x 2

PS3 Generic/PS5 Unique x 2

 

This is the standard layout for most ships tiles.

 

Because there are only 2 dials (and the resent ruling that you can't use your rebel z95 dial) you cannot field more than 2 S&V z95s from just 1 box.

 

If you don’t care about the dials you could play 2 x PS1 Generic & 2 x PS3 generic from 1 box but not in a tournament as per the rules.

 

So to be crystal clear, you will need 3 MW packs if you want to play 5+ z95s in a tournament.

Edited by Mace Windu

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