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Donovan Morningfire

Suggested revision to Parry and Reflect values are calculated.

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The problem with it working on a miss is that Reflect has to activate. If you make it work on a miss, then you need to include the strain cost, which is weird. 

Agreed. 

 

 

 

That's why I think the offensive part (Improved Parry/Reflect) should be treated as a talent apart from the defensive part (Parry/Reflect). Each one should have its own out-of-turn-incidental. I made some suggestions on another topic:

 

 

Risposte (Improved Parry)

Activation: Active (Incidental, Out-of-Turn)
Ranked: No 
When the character is targeted by a Brawl, Melee, or Lightsaber combat check that generates (Despair) or (Threat)(Threat), and he takes no damage from it, after the attack is resolved, the character can take 2 strain and take the Risposte incidental. When he does it, he automatically hits the attacker once with a wielded Brawl, Melee, or Lightsaber weapon. This hit deals the weapon’s base damage plus any damage from applicable talents. 
 
Redirect Shot (Improved Reflect)
Activation: Active (Incidental, Out-of-Turn)
Ranked: No 
Force talent. When the character is targeted by a Ranged (Light), Ranged (Heavy), or Gunnery combat check that generates (Despair) or (Threat)(Threat), and he takes no damage from it, after the attack is resolved, the character can take 2 strain and take the Redirect Shot incidental. When he does that, he automatically hits one target within medium range, dealing the same damage as the hit from the initial ranged attack.
The ranged attack’s hit must be one that is able to be reflected and redirected (generally only blaster weapons fall into this category; anything else is subject to GM oversight). 
 

 

See the discussion on this topic: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/122062-improved-parry-no-use-on-a-miss-does-it-work-with-circle-of-shelter/ 

 

:)

Edited by TedMaul

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Probably it's on another post but, one doubt.

 

Considering that probably in a future wll be non-force sensitive classes like duelist/martial artist (or similar) that maybe will include Parry as talent (or maybe they will upgrade some specializations like Marauder), based on the rule that attacking with a lightsaber to someone that cannot block it reduces difficulty to 1 (instead 2), do you consider that someone can apply Parry to those attacks?

 

The probably answer will be yes because I supose that Parry is also, unbalance the opponent, grab other one hands/arms and deflect its attack without touching the blade, but, what's your oppinon about that?

 

Thanks :)

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/whistlestunelessly

 

/cough

 

So...um...new updates today, right?  Hmmm...

That's the prevailing theory at the moment...

 

Granted, it's getting fairly late in the day, but the first Beta Update went live pretty late in the day as well.

Edited by Donovan Morningfire

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No change to Parry or Reflect though :(

 

It is a pretty significant change, especially compared to everything else which is a bunch of little changes that just start adding up. If they do decide to alter it, I'd imagine they'd likely wait a bit more until more people get their hands on it and have some more time to throw in their input on the topic.

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I'm thinking that a few arguments are missing from the discussion. 

 

Improved Reflect lets you redirect an attack from the attacker to whomever you want within medium range ( including the attacker if he/she is within medium range)

So for example, you can be attacked by a few gunslingers from long range, and redirect the hit towards the axe-wielding marauders that are at short range. ( And to be honest, reflecting back a shot from a few meters shouldn't happen very often, even with jedi reflexes, but that's just my opinion) 

 

Improved Parry, always have the base difficulty of 2 purple dice to be used. Although it is easier to get melee defenses up then ranged defenses.

 

Improved reflect gives you an attack towards an enemy that you are not engaged with, something that usually takes a few maneuvers for a LS-wielder.

 

And as others has pointed out, on its own the talent might be under performing in perfect conditions within medium range. But to be honest, most fights are not in perfect conditions and should not be. At least all fights should have at least 1 setback but possible more than 1, and most people, even with reflect, should take cover if possible and try to move between them.

 

I don't think that Improved Reflect is sub-par or under-performing in it's own right, or with other talents or force powers. It's something, like improved parry, that shouldn't always be possible to use, but the ability to strike an enemy of your choosing within medium range with it is pretty good.

Edited by Poseur

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The problem I mostly see with Improved Reflect is that for Shien Expert, there's no talents to help a PC with just that spec to increase their ranged defense, forcing them to go outside the spec in order to improve the chance of using the talent.  A single rank of Side Step, replacing either a rank of Reflect or even Defensive Training, would go a long ways towards addressing that problem, if only by providing a chance for a Despair result.  Soresu Defender (who just recently got Improved Reflect added) has already got the Defensive Circle talent to add ranks of defense to the character, so they're covered on that front, as a particularly good Lighsaber check can let them add a few ranks of defense and thus increase the odds of generating those 3 Threat needed.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that for Improved Parry, it says nothing about the passive qualities of the weapon, such as the Breach 1 that comes standard with every lightsaber that's not using a training emitter, or even the Pierce quality included with every vibro-weapon published to date.  So with Improved Parry, if those passive weapon qualities do get applied, then you're doing a lot more damage on the return strike, particularly if using a Barb Ingot, Krayt Dragon Pearl, or Mephite Crystal as the focusing crystal.

 

So while Improved Reflect can offer a broader selection of targets, Improved Parry could quite possibly deliver a harder hit per activation on top of being activated with greater frequency due to more defensive talents being available in the LS Form trees to affect the difficultly of melee attacks than there are to affect the difficulty of ranged attacks.

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I don't like the idea of increasing the rate of accumulation for Parry/Deflect.  It's important to realize that these characters, careers, and talents are not meant to represent high level jedi.  The are basic initiates.  and even taking one rank of parry allows you to mitigate just under half of the most basic success of the a basic LS hit.

 

Given that the book suggest 150 more XP for a Knight level campaign, I'm sorry to say that your perception of the game's level is wrong past the first rank of talents.

 

 

For the record I like these changes.  Lightsaber users are supposed to be a little scary in Melee.  Ranged, not so much.

Edited by Chris Brady

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I still feel like many that a Jedi Knight (+150XP) should be able to at least bounce back some blaster rounds like in AoTC. 

 

It costs Strain each time you prevent a blaster shot doing full damage. This inherently makes it a finite thing that will end sooner or later. I think that at least some of the forms should have this consideration regardless of the details of the actual mechanics change as long as it improves the Jedi ability to not get shot as easily. 

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I still feel like many that a Jedi Knight (+150XP) should be able to at least bounce back some blaster rounds like in AoTC. 

 

It costs Strain each time you prevent a blaster shot doing full damage. This inherently makes it a finite thing that will end sooner or later. I think that at least some of the forms should have this consideration regardless of the details of the actual mechanics change as long as it improves the Jedi ability to not get shot as easily. 

Well, the Jedi we saw in AotC would probably have at least 300 XP and be far more broadly trained than a FaD character with +150 XP, so they'd be better able to branch out into other specs to boost up their Strain Threshold as well as Force Rating.

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