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One on One vs a Bloodthirster

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My apothecary attempt, up close and personal just the way it should be.

 WS 75,  Agility 75 (80 with armor)-could be 65.  BS 65 minimum

Ultra marine with tyranic war vet, DW champion, master at arms for felling. slayer of demons

 

Gear:

Artificer armor with fury like lightening and heroes spirit (+15 ballistic)

master signature storm shield (reroll failed skill test)

Sanctified MC krak grenades.

 

The apothecary stands there, his KT on the ground dying around him, tore apart by unrelenting fury of the bloodletters.  His last KT mate had finished off the BL before sucumbing to his wounds.  It would be up to him to save them in time.  First he had to deal with one more demon.  Their leader, the massive BT ready to take their skulls.  They lock eyes and the BT begins to charge.

The apothecary quickly runs through the probabilities of success of his codex patterns and sees their success rapidly dropping to 0.  Only one path has a chance of success.  Time to be a hero.  

He hoists his shield up in front of him, hiding his surprise.  These grenades were forged above Mars while orbiting through the emperor's light.  Calm yourself, just as Guiliman taught.  He's no different then the carnefix you took down on Macragee all those centuries ago.  As the BT got close he learned this wasn't an ordinary marine.

 

The bloodthirster lays into the marine with everything he has but finds his axe always hitting the shield and his whip only ever hitting air. (parry 95% with reroll, wall of steel matches the swift attack 2 for 2)  Step aside gives the extra dodge at 100% to match the second hand whip.

 

The marine pulls out his ace.  As a tyranic war vet he can use krak grenades in melee at -20.  with a 65 BS he has the 95% chance to hit (aim, 30 size, and 15 from armor).  The BT has 50% dodge. the MC sanctified grenade does 3d10+6 pen 6.  The BT has 6 toughness and 13 armor netting a 3d10-7 averaging around 19.5 a hit.  With 195 health thats 10 hit which means 20 shots.

 

With 20 shots the marine is likely to face an issue with critical failures at some point but he has a 55 force field to help cover the event as well as the ability to take a couple of hits from the whip.  The axe is pretty much a one and done.  You really have to hope it hits the shield arm location at that point to be able to survive in combat condition.

 

 

There are several other deeds and distinctions that could be added to boost damage but they've already been used.  If you have an issue with 20 grenades then switching to 70 req sword works well too since then you can disarm.

Edited by Kamikazzijoe

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Supreme Warrior: When using the All Out Attack

Action, Bloodthirsters may make a single Melee Attack

that cannot be Dodged or Parried. A Bloodthirster can

perform this attack a number of times per combat equal to

his Intelligence Bonus (normally 4).

 

I didn't read far enough down to see that.  So we'll call that 4 burned fate points?

Or

The apothecary can use a fait point to make his disarm attack un-parryable.  

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The Techmarine:

 

             The Bloodthirster gazed across the rocky expanse, and saw the Techmarine staring back.  The Techmarine bellowed forth a challenge, pointing out towards the Bloodthirster with his blade, and making a beckoning gesture.  The Bloodthirster scoffed, unimpressed by such antics and in no way at all compelled to obey or engage the impudent whelp in combat.  Still, there it sat like a bug on a rock, wielding no ranged weapons except perhaps those odd protrusions on its back which resembled strange additional limbs, enhancing the insectile appearance.  And the challenge still echoed, annoying the Bloodthirster.  Who exactly did he think he was, that he thought himself able to successfully engage in single combat against the Bloodthirster, master of a thousand campaigns, destroyer of worlds, terror of all whom dared to face him?  So, with lazy beats of his wings, the Bloodthirster advanced.

               The Techmarine made no motion to move from that spot, neither to flee or to advance.  It made the Bloodthirster unusually nervous, and he gazed around, looking for the ambush, or artillery emplacements, or explosives, or whatever other surprise this creature had in store.  Yet nothing came, and so still onwards went the Bloodthirster, closing the distance unopposed.

               Once he had reached the Techmarine, the Bloodthirster charged, and with a burst of preternatural speed, sought to end this engagement with a single flurry of motion.  The Techmarine’s shield rose, and with practiced ease, deflected every one of the Bloodthirster’s mighty blows.  The Techmarine followed up his stalwart defense with a lone, measured thrust, which the Bloodthirster easily parried.

               At this point the Bloodthirster studied the Techmarine, not in any way concerned, but more with the curiosity and mild respect that one gives a beetle that refuses to be ground under the heel of your boot, before grabbing the rock with which to smash it.  He went through one more attack routine, and watched it play out in an identical fashion, with another series of blocked blows and the lone, unimpressive attack.  Feeling somewhat bored and disappointed, the Bloodthirster called upon his millennia of combat expertise, and with a single, weighty attack, smashed forth a blow that could not possibly be blocked.  The tremendous attack smashed the shield aside and blew through the armour as though it was not even there, cutting deeply into the Techmarine’s chest.  His blade sang with joy as it tasted the blood of his foe, and he could not help but smile, knowing that this ‘engagement’, if one could even call it that, was at an end. 

              He watched with satisfaction as the pathetic Techmarine’s blade fell from his hand.  He watched with curiosity as that same hand grabbed an object from the Techmarine’s side, and with a snap, tossed it forward.  He watched with alarm as the grenade landed under him.  He tried to wrench his massive weapon free, to move, to depart this area immediately, yet even as he did so he knew it was impossible- the blade was stuck, he was flat footed, and by smashing into this loathsome insect, he had left himself open to this counter attack.  All he could do is watch with horror as the grenade exploded, revealing its nature, in the form of a sucking portal leading to the warp itself.  He cried out in rage as he was sucked back in, knowing that it could be centuries before he once again walked on this mortal plane and shepherded his armies into glorious battle, and that his master’s wrath at his defeat would not be easily satiated.

               The Storm Warden fell back upon his haunches, tearing off his helmet and breathing in great rasping breaths of air.  He stared at the empty space in front of him that had moments ago housed the Bloodthirster, and smiled in satisfaction.  His wounds were severe, but already he felt his enhanced physiology clotting wounds and stemming the flow of vital life blood.  He would need extensive care, but he would live.

 

“Perhaps someday we will fight again, and I shall find the limits of my ability in the moment of death during glorious combat.  Not today.”

 

The Techmarine:

WS 70 (5000) BS 50 (0) Str – T – Agi – Int – Per – WP – Fel –

Sound Constitution x17 (16000); Stalwart Defense (800)

Forge Master (2000)

Cybernetics: None

Astartes Storm Shield (35), Sacris Claymore (0), Vortex Grenade (GM Discretion)

Totals: Spent XP: 23,800; Requisition: 35; Distinctions Used: None; Cybernetics: None; Advanced Specializations Used: None; GM Discretion Wargear used: 1

 

At the beginning of the engagement, the Storm Warden uses the Thunder’s Call solo mode ability.  He then enacts Stalwart Defense, and then waits.  Once the Bloodthirster engages him in melee, every attack is parried (base 70 +10 (Thunder’s Call) +15 (Defensive) = 95% chance to parry, and due to Thunder’s Call, any failures are able to be rerolled).  On his turns, he attacks, which is completely ineffectual.  When the Bloodthirster grows tired of this, he uses Supreme Warrior, in conjunction with Hammer Blow, to make an unblockable attack.  This attack deals 3d10+21 damage (average 39.3 damage), is guaranteed to trigger Razor Sharp, and thus has a pen of 31, while completely ignoring armour (thanks to Warp Weapons) and Unnatural Toughness (thanks to Felling), effectively completely bypassing all defensive measures entirely.

 

Thanks to his 40 Wounds (21 base with average roll for starting wounds, 2 from Storm Warden, 17 from advances), the Storm Warden survives the blow.  In fact, due to the two damage reduction from Stalwart Defense, the Protection Rating of the Storm Shield, and the fact that no effect on the crit chart would prevent action on the next turn (as long as a fate point is used to immediately negate the effect of stunning) before crit 7 on the head chart and crit 9 on every other chart, not only does he survive a statistically average damage roll, but the Bloodthirster only has a 1.02% chance of dealing enough damage to slay or incapacitate the marine during this attack. 

 

Using All Out Attack precludes the use of Reactions until the Bloodthirster’s next round, so he is unable to dodge or parry during the Storm Warden’s next round.  Taking advantage of this weakness, the Techmarine takes a half action to move away, and a half action to throw a Vortex Grenade under the Bloodthirster. The Bloodthirster does get a free standard attack in return, but between the all out attack and the standard attack here, there is an 80% chance that one of them is blocked by the Storm Shield.  That's fine enough odds for any Space Marine, and doesn't take into account the hotly debated topic of whether or not the Techmarine would be allowed to parry, if needed, as no reactions have been used this round.

 

The specific ‘footprint’ of the Bloodthirster is not called out, so it is not known by exactly what margin the Techmarine can ‘miss’ and have the grenade scatter, while still hitting the Bloodthirster.  As a result, I cannot provide hard and fast metrics for the probability of also hitting the Techmarine, or what the desired ‘target point’ would be.  In addition, the same debate would appy to whether or not the Techmarine would be allowed to dodge the Vortex grenade, should it hit him.  However, the Bloodthirster is virtually impossible to miss (size + point blank range, and the 1 fate point the Storm Warden has remaining put the chance of success at over 98%), so regardless of whether or not the Storm Warden is lost, the Bloodthirster is certainly defeated.

 

At this point I would like to point out that the Techmarine could certainly try tanking more.  By using cybernetics, being an Imperial Fist and using Indomitable Defense to gain enough stacks of Unnatural Toughness for it to actually matter, being a Black Templar and thus negating the effects of Warp Weapons, being a Dark Angel and gaining temporary wounds, taking levels of the Flesh is Weak, using Armour Monger, a Machinator Array, and more, you certainly can get to where you have more than 3 wounds left on average after the initial attack.  However, it is outright impossible, to the best of my ability to discern, to get enough ability to soak damage and enough wounds to survive two such attacks, regardless of how much you try.  As there is no items that provide a protection rating of 75%, which is what is required to have on average only 1 of the 4 attacks come through, no one can stand toe to toe against a Bloodthirster and live, if he is given enough time to utilize Supreme Warrior to its fullest*. 

 

You might think of sundering his weapons with a Relic Blade, but at only a 25% chance, there is a less than 50% chance (only 44%) that it would occur during the initial two hits from the charge, which is simply inadequate, and after those initial points of contact, there is no reason why the Bloodthirster wouldn’t simply switch to Supreme Warrior and Hammer Blow.  With that in mind, there is no way, without multiple attack options, to slay the Bloodthirster in the time required.  So, in a way, this is a pyrrhic victory, as the Techmarine is possibly dead, and he was victorious because he had enough tank to survive *a* hit, not because he had what it took to hold out over the long haul.  You’ve gotta hand it to FFG, as much as I’ve successfully slain the Bloodthirster with every class, using tactics ranging from overwatch to melee combat to psychic powers to sustained lascannon barrages to terminator armour and finally vortex grenades, the Bloodthirster is really grossly powerful, and having one means that even the best prepared teams are likely to lose between 2 and 4 members if they allow Supreme Warrior to be used, which requires only a round of melee combat to occur.

 

Indeed, there is only one setup I can think of for anyone not a Librarian to successfully survive in protracted melee combat.  Since I went this way, and since I did reuse the Storm Warden chapter (more for thematic effect than because it was an optimal choice, and besides, I had used Black Templars, Iron Fists, and Dark Angels, which are the more mechanically superior choices already as well), I’ll redo the Assault Marine yet again to make it focused on outright Melee Superiority rather than Alpha Strike potential.  I should have that tomorrow.  In the meantime, I hope you enjoyed!

 

*The notable exception being of course a Dark Angel Librarian, which can gain 42 points of armour not eliminated by warp weapons, which combined with their toughness, the Dark Angel’s potential free Terminator Armour, cybernetics and a shield, can get the Bloodthirster’s average damage down to 2 per attack.  Combined with the 18 bonus wounds provided by the Dark Angel solo mode ability, and not only can they not take a single point of real damage from all 4 attacks, they can just stand there and decide not to dodge or parry at all, ever, and be absolutely fine.  However, there is absolutely no way a Bloodthirster would actually survive the 4 rounds of melee combat for that to matter (if even vaguely optimized for melee combat, the Librarian would kill the Bloodthirster in two rounds, three at most, one if it was *really* optimized for the task), and most importantly, the Librarian would kill it with their mind Long before it ever got close enough to engage in melee, as we saw earlier, so even though they are naturally the best at this task as well, as it’s a Librarian (a Dark Angel Librarian at that) I figured it wasn’t even worth mentioning, except in this aside.

Edited by Dr. Quinn

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Following up on the doctors orders and my medic build.  Here is how to melee toe to toe with the BT.

 

Let him charge, parry, parry, with storm shield.  Dodge the whip.

Your turn: all out attack with a disarm.  Steal his axe

His turn: tries to use you as a whipping boy.

Your turn: toss the axe onto your meltabomb and blow it.

His turn: whips you again.

Your turn: all out disarm the whip.

 

Weird alterations.  The BT uses his all out attack to steal the axe back. There goes four of your fate points countering that.

BT uses all out attack to whip you and entangle.  between the forcefield and strength roll you should get out of this one.

 

Side note: Warp weapon can be defeated with warding.  

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Following up on the doctors orders and my medic build.  Here is how to melee toe to toe with the BT.

 

Let him charge, parry, parry, with storm shield.  Dodge the whip.

Your turn: all out attack with a disarm.  Steal his axe

His turn: tries to use you as a whipping boy.

Your turn: toss the axe onto your meltabomb and blow it.

His turn: whips you again.

Your turn: all out disarm the whip.

 

Weird alterations.  The BT uses his all out attack to steal the axe back. There goes four of your fate points countering that.

BT uses all out attack to whip you and entangle.  between the forcefield and strength roll you should get out of this one.

 

Side note: Warp weapon can be defeated with warding.  

 

In terms of stealing the Axe, I thought of that, but here's the trouble- he has 99 base WS, 109 when frenzying (why wouldn't he?), so as a result, with your proposed build, he actually has a higher WS than you.  You also can't all out attack with disarm (the disarm action is its own full round action).  Even if you include Hatred to get the additional +10 (no reason not to), and switch the Hero's spirit to WS and Krak Grenades for a sword (which I personally like better, because how many MC sanctified grenades do they have?) you still only beat his WS by 1, and remember, he also has fate points.  Having only a 51% chance of success is a little hairy there.

 

Once you get the Axe, the only mechanically supported way to destroy it is with a Relic Blade.  There are no rules for damaging objects or weapons that I am aware of, or how many points of structure they have, beyond power fields (which this is immune to), and Relic Blades (which this is not).  You can just bang it and a relic blade together until the Axe is destroyed, but as that is only a 25% chance, it requires 3 hits before it is statistically likely to be destroyed (58%), and 5 hits before you get to a 75% chance of success.  That is a round or two of lightning attacks against it.  Also keep in mind that with Supreme Warrior and Hammer Blow working in conjunction, a blow from that whip is going to deal 1d10+21 pen 19, which is survivable, but hurts badly, and even after you have him disarmed he can still dish out unarmed attacks that deal 1d10+21 damage pen 11, and that with Thunder Charge, he gets an extra unarmed attack on a charge, albeit one that is only 1d10+21 pen 0.

 

Not saying it can't be done, just saying that I would love to see the math which shows this course of action as one which you can survive.  One thing I will point out is that as he does not have disarm, and his weapon is not listed as a two handed one, you could always just hang onto the thing, and short of two rounds of grappling (which you should be able to avoid / get out of anyway) he has no mechanically supported way of actually getting the Axe back once you have it, so destroying it isn't necessarily needed.  In fact, I would go so far as to point out that there is nothing that mechanically prevents you from using it against him, and after all, a 3d10 pen 20 (when razor sharp triggers) felling weapon seems like a winner to me.  Get your WS high enough to disarm consistently, and you can just disarm the Axe, disarm the whip, and attack him with his own weapons, which would be awesome.  But to do that, you need a *lot* higher WS, and proof you can survive the unarmed attack and at minimum 1 Supreme Warrior attack with a whip, plus 3 more unarmed attacks using supreme warrior and hammer blow.

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The Assault Marine (a.k.a. the Beatdown)

               The Assault Marine and the Bloodthirster screamed towards each other, the one carried by wings fueled with dark chaos energies, the other carried by wings of flame.  Within moments, they collided.  The Bloodthirster struck first, but found the mighty swings of his axe deflected by his opponent’s tiny shield, and the cracks of his whip always sailed through empty air.  His cunning mind was already preparing for a killing blow, yet though he easily picked off the first attack coming at him, he found his opponent’s counter attacks unrelenting.  He felt mighty blows hammer in, and before he knew it, he found himself falling, inexplicably landing on the hard ground below. 

               Not sure what had happened, the Bloodthirster rose to his feet and advanced towards his opponent, yet before he had fully crossed the distance, the Space Marine charged once more, and the Bloodthirster was once again overwhelmed by the furious rain of blows coming in.  He felt the hammer blows raining down once more, and found his massive legs once more failing him as he was forced to the ground.  This time he watched as the Assault Marine, as quick as a hunting cat, retreated away to what he presumably thought was a safe distance.

               The Assault Marine must surely have underestimated the range of his mighty whip, for even while still on the ground, he was within range.  Growling with frustration, the Bloodthirster lashed out, but once again found his whip impacting the ground to the side of his opponent as the Space Marine dodged aside with almost unnerving ease.  Feeling uneasy, the Bloodthirster rose to his feet once more.

               Almost before he had finished rising, the Assault Marine was on him once again.  And once again, the Bloodthirster was unable to defend against the relentless assault, and found himself on his back and staring at the sky.  He knew that he could not survive like this.  Whomever or whatever this Space Marine was, he was not something the Bloodthirster would choose to fight at this time.  As quickly as he could, he rose to his feet and took to the sky, seeking to leave the Assault Marine behind.

               Yet only a moment after he had taken to the air, he felt the presence behind him, and whirled around to see the Assault Marine blaze in, far too fast to escape without being able to build up to full speed, and possibly not even then.  Once again he felt wounds erupting across his body from the tremendous, impossibly strong blows from this creature, and once again he found himself on his back against the broken ground, only able to stare at the sky in longing.

               What creature was this?  Its blood red armour and markings identified it as a Blood Angel, and normally he would enjoy taunting his opponent into a fury over the death of his primarch, watching him frenzy, and then killing him in the throes of his anger and battle, offering him as a suitable sacrifice to the Blood God.  Yet this one was far too calm, far too collected for that, and in his despair and near delirium, the Bloodthirster saw him instead as an Angel of the Blood God, an emissary of Khorne come to test him, for surely there was no other explanation for this.

               If that was the case, he was going to fail.  The Bloodthirster knew this, as surely as he knew anything, and for the first time in his millennia of existence, the Bloodthirster felt hopelessness.  He readied himself for the onslaught he knew would come, and when as predicted the Blood Angel charged forth once again, he attacked with everything he had.  As predicted, every blow of the axe was cast aside by that infernal shield, and every strike of the whip found nothing but air.  Also as predicted, the return attacks were unrelenting, and the Bloodthirster knew his end was near.

               Struggling to his feet, his breath ragged, the Bloodthirster faced his opponent, who had yet to even receive a scratch.  His rage bubbling over, he bellowed out “Who are you?!?”  As the Assault Marine charged in once more, the only answer was the blow of a hammer, and then there was nothingness.

 

Blood Angel Assault Marine (Wings of Angels)

WS 70 (3200) BS – Str 70 (3200) T – Agi 70 (3200) Int – Per – WP – Fel –

Acrobatics +20 (1000); Dodge +20 (1400); Pilot (Personal) +20 (1000)

Slayer of Daemons (1000); Swift Attack (0); Lightning Attack (600); Preternatural Speed (1000); Wall of Steel (700); Step Aside (800); Assassin Strike (500); Sprint (600); Crushing Blow (600); Signature Wargear (Hero): Master Crafted Thunder Hammer (1500)

Armour History: Any

Cybernetics: None

Master Crafted Thunder Hammer (0); Storm Shield (35); Mk VI ‘Corvus’ Power Armour (0)

Totals:  Spent XP: 20,300; Requisition: 35; Distinctions Used: 0; Cybernetics Used: 0; Advanced Specializations Used: 0

 

The Assault Marine charges towards the Bloodthirster.  One round before the Assault Marine reaches the Bloodthirster, he activates Feat of Strength.  It does not matter if the Bloodthirster gets the charge, as with a Storm Shield parrying two attacks (testing against WS 70 + 10 (Slayer of Daemons) + 15 (Balanced) = 95% chance of success, can reroll failures with fate points as normal) and dodging the third (testing against Agi 70 + 10 (Corvus Armour) + 20 (Dodge) = 95% chance of success, reroll failures with fate points), not to mention the attacks that get absorbed by the Storm Shield, the Bloodthirster cannot hit him with regular attacks.

 

On his turn, the Assault Marine charges the Bloodthirster, using Lightning Attack to gain 3 attacks.  Each has a 95% chance of hitting (rerolling failures of course, base WS 70 + 10 Master Crafted + 10 Slayer of Daemons + 10 Charge), and though the Bloodthirster is virtually guaranteed to parry one of them, the other two attacks come in unopposed.  They deal 2d10 + 5 (Weapon Damage) + 28 (Unnatural Str of 70 x4 from Feat of Strength) + 2 (Str bonus from Power Armour) + 2 (slayer of Daemons) + 2 (Crushing Blow) + 2 (Master Crafted) = 2d10 + 41 damage pen 9.

 

As the Bloodthirster has a base damage reduction of 31, that leaves the total incoming damage at 2d10+19.  That means there is a 100% chance of doing 21 or more damage.  As a result, every successful hit will knock the Bloodthirster down due to the concussive effect.  The Bloodthirster is of course immune to the stunning effect.  The Blood Angel uses Assassin Strike at the conclusion of his attacks to withdraw, moving between 2 and 9 meters away (the distance doesn’t actually matter).

 

Since the Bloodthirster begins every round knocked down, he must either spend a half action to rise, or remain prone to perform a full action.  He can choose to use swift attack with his whip (which has a 10m range), to enter a defensive stance while prone, to rise and move as a half action (either towards the assault marine or away, on the ground or flying, it doesn’t matter), to delay an action to attack when the Assault Marine comes into range (since he has preternatural speed, he would then be able to use lightning attack with his axe and whip, as it would only be a half action to do so), or can even delay an action to attempt to initiate a grapple.  As none of those things deny reactions, none of them hit the Assault Marine.  Since he cannot spend a full round action to use All Out Attack, as at no point does the Blood Angel begin adjacent to him, he cannot use Supreme Warrior.  This leaves him with no effective way to damage the Assault Marine.

 

Since he only has a half action to move should he choose to rise, the Bloodthirster cannot hope to get far enough away to avoid the Blood Angel charging him each turn.  As a result, there is no chance of escape either.  Effectively, nothing the Bloodthirster does or does not do actually matters, he has no hope of victory and no hope of escape, and can only count the rounds until he is killed, or pray for exceptional luck beyond all reason to save him.  As there is only a .1% chance that the Blood Angel will fail to dodge or parry twice, and then also have the Storm Shield fail to protect him, that prayer is almost certainly futile as well.  On the offensive side, the Assault Marine only actually needs to use a fate point if more than one attack misses, which is only .2% of the time.  As a result, the battle could go the full 16 rounds the Space Marine has available from feat of strength if necessary, and he would likely still be around at the end of that time frame.  However, such drastic lengths of time are by no means necessary.

 

As each attack does on average 31.2 points of damage, it takes 7 attacks to slay the Bloodthirster.  As a result, it takes on average 4 rounds of melee combat to slay the Bloodthirster.  Note that for this particular Space Marine, the rules of the engagement don’t matter.  As long as he does not begin already adjacent to the Bloodthirster, he could start at any distance from 2m to 2000m, with any terrain of your choosing, and as long as the Bloodthirster does not flee before ever engaging him in combat, he would come out victorious.  Even in that event, thanks to using the Sprint talent every other round, he gains an average of 21m per round on the Bloodthirster, even without using his jump pack (68m per round using the jump pack).  This Assault Marine can take on any creature, in any environment, under any circumstances, and only needs Scourge of Heretics and Hunter of Aliens (another 2000XP) to make him a complete combat master.  The only thing he will struggle against is a horde of ranged combatants (unable to dodge their attacks), but even still- I believe a Blood Angel Assault Marine is the strongest non-librarian one on one combatant possible.

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Following up on the doctors orders and my medic build.  Here is how to melee toe to toe with the BT.

 

Let him charge, parry, parry, with storm shield.  Dodge the whip.

Your turn: all out attack with a disarm.  Steal his axe

His turn: tries to use you as a whipping boy.

Your turn: toss the axe onto your meltabomb and blow it.

His turn: whips you again.

Your turn: all out disarm the whip.

 

Weird alterations.  The BT uses his all out attack to steal the axe back. There goes four of your fate points countering that.

BT uses all out attack to whip you and entangle.  between the forcefield and strength roll you should get out of this one.

 

Side note: Warp weapon can be defeated with warding.  

 

In terms of stealing the Axe, I thought of that, but here's the trouble- he has 99 base WS, 109 when frenzying (why wouldn't he?), so as a result, with your proposed build, he actually has a higher WS than you.  You also can't all out attack with disarm (the disarm action is its own full round action).  Even if you include Hatred to get the additional +10 (no reason not to), and switch the Hero's spirit to WS and Krak Grenades for a sword (which I personally like better, because how many MC sanctified grenades do they have?) you still only beat his WS by 1, and remember, he also has fate points.  Having only a 51% chance of success is a little hairy there.

 

 

 

The text on disarm changed from when i first read it to make the post and just now on the reread.  I swear!

 

One point.  I am looking at the BC BT.  Is there anything in the DW version that says his weapons are immune to power fields?  The BC weapons calls them demon weapons but that class doesn't exist in DW.

 

Point 2.  Nothing indicates the weapons are more durable than normal weapons so I'd say the onerous is on the person saying the meltabomb couldn't destroy it.

 

point 3. Destroying it is because you only have 2 hands.  One for your shield and one to hold the stolen weapon.  Don't want him to just pick it back up.  Yes Mr. Tech marine we know you have this problem solved.

 

Point 4.  In trying to brute force the disarm, you could demeanor for +2 successes which helps, but then puts this into a "could win" instead of "will win" that we've been shooting for in the thread.  

 

Point 5.  The time between stealing the axe and stealing the whip, assuming the BT uses his special attack will likely require at least one forcefield save (55%)

 

Point 6.  Once you have both weapons, you can heal yourself though the unarmed damage of no blocking.  Hooray for medic actually coming into play!

 

Aha on the disarm.  WS 75 +10 hatred +15 from the armor and +20 from aiming while waiting for the **** thing to charge you!  120 right at you BT.

Edited by Kamikazzijoe

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1) Yeah, it's the whole warp weapons trait.  It's actually in the description of power fields in the DW core rulebook, "Weapons with the Warp Weapon Trait and Natural Weapons are immune to this effect."

 

2) How much damage would it have to do to destroy it?  Sure, they may not be more durable, but since a meltabomb deals a set amount of damage, and things like walls and bunker doors have structure points to determine if it's destroyed or not, whereas weapons do not, though in any given game a GM may say "yes, that works" it is something that requires GM discretion, just like a distinction or vortex grenades.  If that's the only point of GM discretion fine, I've certainly always given myself one to work with, but I think you can do without.  Also, see 1.

 

3) True enough, but dipole maglocks allow you to secure your own weapons (or you could enter unarmed since you're intending to disarm) and replacing the storm shield with a combat shield would allow you to grab em both.  Though the loss in protection would certainly hurt, because the whip hurts *so* much less than the Axe, I suspect (though do not have confirmed at this time) that you could afford it and still survive.

 

4) That actually certainly does help.  Additional ways I also saw to increase WS: Can have Corvus Armour w/ Hero's spirit (+15 WS, not a bonus to tests, so stacks regardless) and Gauntlets of Xirion (+10, also to WS itself), Hatred (+10 bonus to tests) and Slayer of Daemons (+10 bonus to tests), Frenzy (+10 to WS itself, it's fine as long as you also have a way to pick up Battle Rage so you can still parry), the Blood Drinker special ability (requires being able to near guaranteed pass a WP test in exchange for +10 to WS itself.  Note that if WP is 70, it's only a 9% chance of failure after incorporating fate points, which seems a-ok to me), the deed Toe to Toe (+10 to WS itself against master level opponents).  So, if you're a Blood Drinker (who can thus max at 75 WS base), successfully use your special ability, and have all of the above, you can test against 150 WS.  Trigger demeanour for bonus successes, and suddenly you're 50+ ahead of him, and your chance of failure is likely within acceptable range (when accounting for fate points, actually requires a fair amount of crunching, so I haven't done that yet)

 

5) It's only 1d10+25 pen 19.  Assuming you don't have any way to reduce more than 19 (it's not felling, so you really should be able to top that with armour and toughness), it's still only 32 damage.  You should be able to take that, it's just a matter of taking everything else as well.

 

6) Absolutely!  I'd love to see the math on it.

 

Bonus point: Aiming also does not apply, sadly, as it specifies an attack, and the disarm action does not specify as having the attack subtype.

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As far as damaging Daemon Weapons ... those weapons that actually have a Daemon inside them are treated as having an AV of 20 for damaging them. How much damage past that needs to be done to destroy them isn't specified. And, a Bloodthirster's weapons don't have a Daemon inside them.

A couple of meltabombs applied appropriately should probably be able to damage it. But ... I'm not sure you'd have the time while engaging a bloodthirster solo.

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5) It's only 1d10+25 pen 19.  Assuming you don't have any way to reduce more than 19 (it's not felling, so you really should be able to top that with armour and toughness), it's still only 32 damage.  You should be able to take that, it's just a matter of taking everything else as well.

 

6) Absolutely!  I'd love to see the math on it.

 

Bonus point: Aiming also does not apply, sadly, as it specifies an attack, and the disarm action does not specify as having the attack subtype.

5- Its the entanglement that is the issue, not so much the raw damage.  Every round you're making a strength check to get out, you're not disarming.

 

6. I'm going with a 22 DR for the marine, 12 from the artificer armor and 10 from toughness. 1d10+21 becomes 1d10-1.  So thats maxing out at 9x3 remaining hits.  Healing is 2xint+1d5.  Assuming 5 int thats 11 minimum a heal.

 

So the quick recap is

BT charged

Marine disarms axe

BT allouts with the whip.

-Marine relies on the FF to take it (can you FP force fields?)

-(alt FF fails, marine takes a wallop, and spends his turn breaking out, repeat whip attack)

Marine drops the axe onto a pile of melta charges, then disarms the whip (BT can't pick up axe without getting caught in a fatal blast of several meltas)

-BT then all outs with a fist

-Marine heals

repeat until out of unavoidable hits.

 

Marine finishes the fight in style with up to a 70 requisition weapon as a DW champion.

 

This revised version no longer requires BS nor to be an ultramarine tyrannic war vet.

Edited by Kamikazzijoe

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Presumably a deamon axe would count as an 'exotic' weapon?

But I love the munchkin idea of disarming a Bloodthirster and then destroying his axe with a metal bomb.

Nope. Daemon versions of weapons count as the same type as the base/original weapon, just with a Daemon trapped inside. The primary difference in whether or not you can use one is the Mastery test against the Daemon within.

And Bloodthirster's blade doesn't actually have a Daemon inside. So far as I know anyways. That means you don't need a Mastery Test to hold it.

Actually, I'm not sure what a Bloodthirster's blade is counted as. Might only be melee(primitive), or it could be an exotic proficiency that Bloodthirsters get for free, if unlisted in their statblock.

 

 

Besides, once you've disarmed the Bloodthirster, if you've got dual-wielding talents and perhaps Blademaster(Ithink) you can start beating the Bloodthirster with its own sword without much penalty; assuming you have a hand with which to use it with, anyways. Or just chuck it away behind you.

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