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Homemade cards

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What would you do if you noticed that in a tournament, someone was using homemade cards.   (Real cards, but printed at home as opposed to the actual card).  Suppose they aren't even playing you... but rather playing someone else and you just happen to notice.  Suppose nobody asked you... and you just notice.   Would you interject into their game?

 

 

 For real - I know it is easy to claim in the abstract that you would tell someone "Hey man, you can't use that!", but it can be difficult, at least for me, to interject into someone else's game, uninvited.  

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I wouldn't butt in (or make a fuss if they were my opponent). I personally don't have a problem with printing certain cards if you don't own them. I print extra upgrade cards for use in home games. However, if the TO interfered, well that player was breaking the rules, so any punishment or even a DQ would be fair. If everyone's okay with it, that player got off scot-free. If somebody has a problem, then my thought is that the offender should have read the tournament rules more carefully.

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Honestly for that one, I would say something. This is a rule that effects everyone in the tournament not just the guy he's playing. you may never play him but he goes on to win the whole thing playing illegal cards. As a TO I would offer to let the player borrow the cards if available from another player. If he couldn't find a replacement I would DQ him from the tourney. 

 

I know the intent is to have a discussion similar to the Nationals discussion on what happened there. In the nationals game the rules of the tourney were not broken as the Opponent allowed the missed opportunity as per the rules. The example you'r given is strictly against the rules and should be handled.

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I'd ask what's up. Did you spill Mountain Dew on your card, but you still have the original ship token? No problem, carry on. In casual play, I don't care. You can print out your squad list from Yet Another Squad Builder and run it entirely from that for all I care. It'd be really distracting if the ship models weren't legit, and in that case I'd be wondering why you're even playing, but the supporting material isn't that important really. It's like playing with acrylic tokens and templates. If you're going to play with printed cards, make them sexy like these (I'm talking about Backstabber and Boba Fett):

 

stagepreview2.jpg

stage1_prizes.jpg

 

I don't see much of a difference between using third-party acrylic tokens and custom-printed (or replacement) cards. It's just bling. I draw the line at ship models and ship tokens -- these, at least, are hard to fake. But I have a hard time justifying why those things even matter in casual play. For FFG-sanctioned events, where the whole thing is basically a way to promote and advertise products, it's their show and they can run it however they want. Locally, casually -- who cares? Have fun.

Edited by DagobahDave

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I would probably only say something if I noticed text difference.

 

Otherwise I don't really see the point in the rule in the first place, besides its easy to draw the line there vs comparing text to see if there is any weird goofiness... even then stupid way to cheat.  Like someone wouldn't notice the wording "once per round..." was missing on the c2p0 card.

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What would you do if you noticed that in a tournament, someone was using homemade cards.   (Real cards, but printed at home as opposed to the actual card).  Suppose they aren't even playing you... but rather playing someone else and you just happen to notice.  Suppose nobody asked you... and you just notice.   Would you interject into their game?

 

 

I'd just mention it to the TO and let them handle it. Maybe it was pre-approved or something. Ultimately, as long as the text wasn't altered it won't affect my game.

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I'd be fine with it, as long as he actually had the original cards. If he just printed everything and only has a couple ships, you get the short end of the stick. The rules state that the real thing has to be used, so when I go out and buy all my stuff to comply, I expect everyone else to do the same.

But as long as they have originals, and they are either replacing them or just using alternate art, go for it.

If they don't, well, DQ or borrow.

 

Casual play, use paper squares for ships for all I care

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This is where you contact you TO before the tourney. Confirm is he going to be strict or not. Reason I say this is cause it would suck not to use something that you would want to use cause you haven't bought it yet and then see someone get away with it because the TO thinks it is ok.

 

 

That said I prefer strict, that way you don't have the Altered text issues.

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I'd ask what's up. Did you spill Mountain Dew on your card, but you still have the original ship token? No problem, carry on. In casual play, I don't care. You can print out your squad list from Yet Another Squad Builder and run it entirely from that for all I care. It'd be really distracting if the ship models weren't legit, and in that case I'd be wondering why you're even playing, but the supporting material isn't that important really. It's like playing with acrylic tokens and templates. If you're going to play with printed cards, make them sexy like these (I'm talking about Backstabber and Boba Fett):

 

stagepreview2.jpg

stage1_prizes.jpg

 

I don't see much of a difference between using third-party acrylic tokens and custom-printed (or replacement) cards. It's just bling. I draw the line at ship models and ship tokens -- these, at least, are hard to fake. But I have a hard time justifying why those things even matter in casual play. For FFG-sanctioned events, where the whole thing is basically a way to promote and advertise products, it's their show and they can run it however they want. Locally, casually -- who cares? Have fun.

What is the blue R2 token for?  It looks cool.

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What is the blue R2 token for?  It looks cool.

Looks like a Droid Action token, something to remind you that your action was what ever the droid allowed you to do.

Back to the OP's topic.

I'd tell the TO and let them deal with it. Not my place to butt into another game, and even in my own game, it's up to the TO to make that call.

The rules are the rules, and they're pretty clear that in any official event you have to have the cards on the table. Printing out your list from Voidestate or Yet Another doesn't cut it, and I wouldn't allow someone to use that as a substitute for the cards. Half the point of the cards is to allow both players to easily track the game state, no cards makes that harder.

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I'll point out that the individual didn't own the original cards.  

 

  I hate that this sort of thing bothers me.   I'm just torn.   because I for one, was running 3x Black Squadron with Predator, and a 4th Black Squadron with Outmaneuver.   I WOULD have run 4x Predator, but I only own 3 predators and not really willing to buy another defender just for that upgrade.   Hell, I don't like the Defender at ALL, the ONLY reason I bought the 3 that I did, was simply for the upgrade cards.   So from THAT perspective, it annoys me that someone else can just up and print his own cards for free and use them in the same tournaments as me.  

 

  However, I also feel like a ****** for thinking seriously about trying to get this guy disqualified simply because he doesn't have enough money.   I mean, he fielded MANY of his own cards.  I think he only printed 4 homemade cards.   The guy is TRYING to actually pay for the game, I can tell because about once a month I see him actually buy a ship.... so I dunno.   I think I'm just gonna let him play and deal with it.  

 

   The ONLY time I'll complain out loud if if he prints stuff from future waves that nobody else has access to yet.   (Which actually happened one time and I called him out on it).  

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In a casual environment, no problem.  In a tournament, no chance.  Someone either chose to not read the rules or chose to ignore them.

 

Think of it this way, GW games have the WYSIWYG concept.  An opponent looks at your character model and looks at your printed army list and it's obvious who is who and what the build is.  'Homemade' cards (even DagobahDave's, which are fantastic by the way, and would be awesome to bust out in a casual game) could confuse things and in a timed game that's unacceptable.

 

Think of it another way, lots of wargaming tournaments have a requirement for armies to be painted.  Players are paying money to play, and play against painted armies.  Grey models are unacceptable.  If I need to pick up one of your cards to check something, let me pick up the real thing so I can read it quickly and get back to playing.

 

If someone did this in an event I was participating in, I'd kick up a big stink.  I participated in a tournament last weekend and ran 5 Predator cards.  5 real ones.  Not one real and four photocopies.  My main point here is, you want it, go buy it.  If you can't or won't buy it, stay in your basement.

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This is where you contact you TO before the tourney. Confirm is he going to be strict or not. Reason I say this is cause it would suck not to use something that you would want to use cause you haven't bought it yet and then see someone get away with it because the TO thinks it is ok.

 

 

That said I prefer strict, that way you don't have the Altered text issues.

 

You know, I was gonna say I wouldn't care (I don't see why someone with more money is entitled either to more fun or to a better chance of winning the event), but you make a good point.  If some people have avoided using things they don't own and others haven't then that isn't fair.  Mind you, it's not fair when someone without the disposable income I have has fewer toys than me either.

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However, I also feel like a ****** for thinking seriously about trying to get this guy disqualified simply because he doesn't have enough money.

I get that, but I'm assuming he has the cards he needs to create a legal list, but doesn't have enough to play the list he wants.

So for me, it's not a matter of getting a guy DQ'ed because he can't afford the cards, it's that he wants to effectively cheat by using cards he doesn't actually have. The rules are pretty clear, you have to have the official FFG printed card, and everyone should know that going into it.

Now myself, I'd likely offer to loan him any cards he's missing if I didn't need them. I'd also let it slide if it were just a friendly event, and not some sort of official one.

But again it's not like he didn't have the cards needed, he just didn't have the cards he wanted.

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I'd ask what's up. Did you spill Mountain Dew on your card, but you still have the original ship token? No problem, carry on. In casual play, I don't care. You can print out your squad list from Yet Another Squad Builder and run it entirely from that for all I care. It'd be really distracting if the ship models weren't legit, and in that case I'd be wondering why you're even playing, but the supporting material isn't that important really. It's like playing with acrylic tokens and templates. If you're going to play with printed cards, make them sexy like these (I'm talking about Backstabber and Boba Fett):

 

stagepreview2.jpg

stage1_prizes.jpg

 

I don't see much of a difference between using third-party acrylic tokens and custom-printed (or replacement) cards. It's just bling. I draw the line at ship models and ship tokens -- these, at least, are hard to fake. But I have a hard time justifying why those things even matter in casual play. For FFG-sanctioned events, where the whole thing is basically a way to promote and advertise products, it's their show and they can run it however they want. Locally, casually -- who cares? Have fun.

What is the blue R2 token for?  It looks cool.

Anyplace have a good link to print these cards from a picture online? Love the artwork

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If someone did this in an event I was participating in, I'd kick up a big stink.  I participated in a tournament last weekend and ran 5 Predator cards.  5 real ones.  Not one real and four photocopies.  My main point here is, you want it, go buy it.  If you can't or won't buy it, stay in your basement.

Agreed, IMO that's how it's supposed to work.

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Did anyone at Atlanta regionals notice the guy with the modified falcon?

He took the dish off and replaced it with some Lego-type gun. It looked fantastic, but was tournament illegal, per my understanding of the rules.

I brought it up to him, but let him know I wasn't gonna turn him in or anything.

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Did anyone at Atlanta regionals notice the guy with the modified falcon?

He took the dish off and replaced it with some Lego-type gun. It looked fantastic, but was tournament illegal, per my understanding of the rules.

I brought it up to him, but let him know I wasn't gonna turn him in or anything.

 

From the Tournament Rules:

 

 

The size and shape of a ship model cannot be modified in any way.

 

I would guess changing the dish to a gun didn't really alter this (though I suppose it could be argued either way).

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Why do you care?  As long as the cards aren't reworded or they're trying to cheat, then what's the issue?

 

I understand FFG or the game store might have a problem, but it's not your job to police for them, and anyone doing that just seems like a jerk.  There was a thread about why x-wing player's wives don't participate in tournaments -- this is it right here. Fly casual, and let the tournament organizer deal with these kinds of issues themselves if necessary.  Having players going behind other players back to tattle-tale isn't making anybody's game experience better.

 

The rule about proxying cards is there for FFG to make money (understandable), not because it improves the game experience.  As a player, I'll let FFG and the TO worry about any business repercussions.  I care only about having fun, and so I personally would never raise a stink about proxied cards, nor would I participate in any event with self-elected card police snitching on their neighbours.  

 

I don't participate in events anyway, which may partly be because I dislike playing with heavy handed players that do stuff like this.

 

  

What would you do if you noticed that in a tournament, someone was using homemade cards.   (Real cards, but printed at home as opposed to the actual card).  Suppose they aren't even playing you... but rather playing someone else and you just happen to notice.  Suppose nobody asked you... and you just notice.   Would you interject into their game?

 

 

 For real - I know it is easy to claim in the abstract that you would tell someone "Hey man, you can't use that!", but it can be difficult, at least for me, to interject into someone else's game, uninvited.  

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As long as the cards aren't reworded or they're trying to cheat, then what's the issue?

And how do you know they aren't reworded? What happens if after the 3rd game and the guy is 3-0 someone figures out that his cards are just enough different to give him an advantage?

If they're using official cards, then there's no issue. Using homemade ones means you have to either trust the other person to not make changes, or else look at every card and make sure there's nothing changed.

 

but it's not your job to police for them

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” - Edmund Burke. If someone is cheating, they are cheating period. Why or to what degree isn't a factor here.

Also it's not like we can do anything directly, the most we can do is point it out to the TO and let them deal with it as they see fit. But if no one says anything the TO may not discover the issue until the final game... That's not exactly fair to anyone.

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Did anyone at Atlanta regionals notice the guy with the modified falcon?

He took the dish off and replaced it with some Lego-type gun. It looked fantastic, but was tournament illegal, per my understanding of the rules.

I brought it up to him, but let him know I wasn't gonna turn him in or anything.

 

From the Tournament Rules:

 

 

The size and shape of a ship model cannot be modified in any way.

 

I would guess changing the dish to a gun didn't really alter this (though I suppose it could be argued either way).

Precisely why I didn't mention it to anyone is charge.

Define shape? Is it profile? Top down? The model itself was modified, but it "kept it's arms and leg inside the vehicle at all times" so it could go either way

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