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Core Set Distribution

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Generally and unfortunately the only real issue I have with the LCG model is the distribution of cards in the core sets.

 

I gave up on LOTR (regrettably as it was quite good - it is too late for me now, my son) because the box included 3x about half the cards, 2x a third and 1x another third.

 

To me this is ridiculous. Just ridiculous. Netrunner was the same. I don't mind spending for games I like. I DO mind being forced to in order to get a proper set of cards. Arbitrarily stinting on content makes no sense. Worse, buying further core sets comes with a lot of redundancy that you can do nothing with. Those cards I now have 6x of are useless to me.

 

I know they tried changing this with SW, and I don't know how Conquest will work, but you still needed 2x SW coresets in order to have an experience that wasn't utterly random. In fact in a way SW was worse because they included a couple of duplicates for the sole purpose of learning the game: they could not be used in proper play. What on earth is the point of this? Also including the Scum/Villainy cards made no sense at all.

 

So I'd like to know what the deal will be for Conquest because I'm really interested in a 40k ccg (the last one was actually pretty good before it went all Horus Heresy), but I want to know up front whether i have to buy multiple sets in order to have a meaningful experience,.

 

(Yes I know you can technically play with one core set, but that's like arguing you can play a PS4 on a black and white TV screen - it's nowhere near as fun).

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There are about 3-4 things you can criticise about LCGs and the core set card distribution is certainly one of them.

The Conquest set seems to be similar to the Call of Cthulhu one with most cards being single copies. It's one of the things that is keeping me from wanting to buy it, at least for now.

I think I would have liked it more if they had splitt off 3-4 factions from the core set and put them into a deluxe expansion, so that each faction would actually have at least come with 50, enough to make a deck, but I guess that might be problematic with the ally system.

What I find really weird is that some people don't even have a single core set even though they want one while other people have 3-5 core sets. No wonder LCG core sets are always sold out.

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I think I would have liked it more if they had splitt off 3-4 factions from the core set and put them into a deluxe expansion, so that each faction would actually have at least come with 50, enough to make a deck, 

 

There are already people who are angry that the core set does not include Tyranids/Necrons.  If FFG cut out even more factions, the nerd rage would increase exponentially (unless one of the factions cut was Tau.  Nobody likes them.  They're Communists lol)

 

Several people I have talked to are refusing to buy the game at all until their faction is represented.  If more factions were cut, it would probably significantly reduce sales of the core sets.  If they can't sell enough core sets, then FFG won't be able to financially justify producing the deluxe expansions to include those factions.  Without expansions, the game will fall off the radar and die.  

 

As I mentioned in a post on BGG, the card distribution in the current core set model may not be "ideal" for many, but I believe FFG is trying to make the best decision for the long-term health of the game and their company in a situation where no solution is really perfect.

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So I like how its set up

 

I want play sets of everything and no way will they put that in the core set so for any LCG you will have to buy three boxes for play sets so I prefer the lack of wasted cards besides the Warlord and his Units.

If I have to buy three for a play set I rather not have a lot of wasted cards.

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So it's deffo worth buying a third set then?  (Pre-ordered two already)  I think that's not too bad really to get the cards to play something 'properly' the outlay would be enormous for any of the big CCGs!

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So it's deffo worth buying a third set then?  (Pre-ordered two already)  I think that's not too bad really to get the cards to play something 'properly' the outlay would be enormous for any of the big CCGs!

 

Yes you will want it for the neutral cards alone. Three sets allows you to make two decks with 2x trader or pirate

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This is honestly brutal.  As a store owner, it's hard enough to get a community rolling for a game without them having to buy multiple cores to make a working deck.

 

In my opinion there should be no one ofs at all.

 

Seems like a cool game but...three cores is really rough for new players.

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I'll order a third then! (Better hide the boxes from Mrs Mark though!)  I guess it depends where you're from gaming background wise.  For 40K fans it's a tough sell admittedly but for those like myself from a TCG/CCG background this is actually cheaper than taking up a new deck in one of those games.  It is a pain but FFG have to make money from us somehow! ;)

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I have long said that a good "in-between" solution would be to package the Core decks separately for individual purchase. That is, you could buy the whole Core for $39.99, and you could buy a package of just the 36 cards (30 cards + the 6 neutrals) for each individual faction for something like $6.99. That way, you are getting multiples of only the cards you want for a lower overall price without having to commit to multiple tokens, dials, and factions you don't play. But if you want playsets of everything, you just buy multiple Cores at $39.99.

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You could very easily produce a 'good guy' and 'bad guy' core package: marines, IG, Eldar vs Orks, Dark Eldar, Chaos. That just leaves Tau, but so what 6 factions is already pretty good.

 

**** near £100 for a complete playset is a very tall order!

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That's ridiculous. 3x is beyond a joke.

 

No it's not. No different than most other LCGs and also less waste with most cards being 1x. You can easily play competitive with two copies. 

 

 

Are you being serious? You are quite calmly saying that it's ok to charge near £100 for a full playset for a cardgame? Three boxes of the same product?

 

The Horus Heresy boardgame, which is HUGE, isn't that expensive!

 

I want to be able to access the full breadth of deckbuilding options - that is to say, I want to play the game properly and to the fullest and i'm being gouged for that level of commitment? At best that's counter productive IMO.

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There are about 3-4 things you can criticise about LCGs and the core set card distribution is certainly one of them.

The Conquest set seems to be similar to the Call of Cthulhu one with most cards being single copies. It's one of the things that is keeping me from wanting to buy it, at least for now.

I think I would have liked it more if they had splitt off 3-4 factions from the core set and put them into a deluxe expansion, so that each faction would actually have at least come with 50, enough to make a deck, but I guess that might be problematic with the ally system.

What I find really weird is that some people don't even have a single core set even though they want one while other people have 3-5 core sets. No wonder LCG core sets are always sold out.

 

And why do you think that might be?

 

When you need 3x core set to get a full playset.

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As far as I know, for Netrunner, you can buy a "Haas-Bioroid" set on eBay or from some retailers online that has all the HB cards from Core set and it's generally cheaper than buying another core set. I suspect such "Space Marine core cards" sets will start popping up for sale soon, eh?

 

I mean, duh, the company wants you to buy more cards. At least you know what you're getting and it isn't random like CCGs/TCGs are, right? 

 

Sometimes people complaining about Core Sets not being 3x everything (because this happens with all LCGs/ECGs) is like people saying, "I bought this car but now I have to keep spending money to put gas in it! This car should take me where I want to go without me having to buy extra stuff!"  I mean - duh? If you hate the business model that much take the bus! Er, I mean, borrow decks from your friends. 

 

Does no one go into together on games any more? You buy one, your friend buys one, a third friend buys one - you all pick a faction or two and trade off the others amongst yourselves. Just because it is an LCG doesn't mean you can't make trades. People do that at our store for Netrunner every so often.

 

Or get real creative and build decks that don't use 3x Core Sets worth of cards? Having played a few games already I think that's perfectly viable in this game.

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This is honestly brutal.  As a store owner, it's hard enough to get a community rolling for a game without them having to buy multiple cores to make a working deck.

 

In my opinion there should be no one ofs at all.

 

Seems like a cool game but...three cores is really rough for new players.

 

Especially if they don't enjoy it.

 

The SWLCG had a dreadful coreset (the stupid deckbuilding idea didn't help) because the game experience from the default 'starter' decks was too random. I could see what they were going for but you couldn't rely on getting the cards you needed in hand and so ended up playing random crap to the table because that's all you had.

 

That doesn't sell the game at all; when potential players can't see the full breadth of the strategy in the game they aren't going to be impressed. Telling them they need 3x one set to get that...well some people spend that kind of money on cardgames without a second thought, but it does eat up stock and it skews the player base. That was my experience when I played ccg's. I knew pro players who were very very good, but they wouldn't just buy a few packs and trade within the community because they wanted enough of everything for themselves.

 

The idea you'd buy a few packs, trade with your chums and have a jolly old time like kids with bubblegum cards just doesn't happen IME. At the 'pro' level people are more interested in their own collections and acquiring for themselves. These core sets don't help ease the mad dash to buy lots of boxes when, ideally, they should be going to different players to build a community. I don't think FFG realises this.

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There is a "pro" level? Seriously? I can't wait to get three core sets for one hundred and thirty bucks and call myself a "pro"...All kidding aside, at $130, compared to what my friends pay for their addiction to the 40K Miniature game, we are getting off SUPER light. Revel in it.

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That doesn't sell the game at all; when potential players can't see the full breadth of the strategy in the game they aren't going to be impressed. Telling them they need 3x one set to get that...well some people spend that kind of money on cardgames without a second thought, but it does eat up stock and it skews the player base. That was my experience when I played ccg's. I knew pro players who were very very good, but they wouldn't just buy a few packs and trade within the community because they wanted enough of everything for themselves.

 

The idea you'd buy a few packs, trade with your chums and have a jolly old time like kids with bubblegum cards just doesn't happen IME. At the 'pro' level people are more interested in their own collections and acquiring for themselves. These core sets don't help ease the mad dash to buy lots of boxes when, ideally, they should be going to different players to build a community. I don't think FFG realises this.

 

 

 

When reading this I imagined that you were frothing at the mouth; you seem to be over-reacting here.  Are people really going to have trouble getting hold of three core sets?  I haven't played any other LCGs at launch so I don't know if this is a realistic problem?  I've got three pre-ordered from my FLGS and so do several other people I know.

 

As for the price of three core sets; it's still less than a booster box of MTG, which as I'm a long-term player of (although have recently quit) seems like a bargain to me.  The £90 I'll be spending is like buying two board games, or another 20pts for my Trollbloods.  As far as I'm concerned it's a good investment, especially as the expansions are so cheap.

 

I can kind of understand your point about the players that can only afford one core set, but if you want to build a community then it's the responsibility of those folks with three core sets to help build it.  My friend that wants to play cannot afford three core sets at the moment, so I'll be lending him one of my decks built with three cores until he can.  

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There is a "pro" level? Seriously? I can't wait to get three core sets for one hundred and thirty bucks and call myself a "pro"...All kidding aside, at $130, compared to what my friends pay for their addiction to the 40K Miniature game, we are getting off SUPER light. Revel in it.

False equivalence.

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That doesn't sell the game at all; when potential players can't see the full breadth of the strategy in the game they aren't going to be impressed. Telling them they need 3x one set to get that...well some people spend that kind of money on cardgames without a second thought, but it does eat up stock and it skews the player base. That was my experience when I played ccg's. I knew pro players who were very very good, but they wouldn't just buy a few packs and trade within the community because they wanted enough of everything for themselves.

 

The idea you'd buy a few packs, trade with your chums and have a jolly old time like kids with bubblegum cards just doesn't happen IME. At the 'pro' level people are more interested in their own collections and acquiring for themselves. These core sets don't help ease the mad dash to buy lots of boxes when, ideally, they should be going to different players to build a community. I don't think FFG realises this.

 

 

 

When reading this I imagined that you were frothing at the mouth; you seem to be over-reacting here.

 

 

Then you've got a very vivid imagination!

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Have we been here before? I feel like we've been here before.

 

This is what I'm doing: Me and about 6 people from my FLGS are getting the game. No one else is interested in Tau, what I'm planning on playing. I'm trading away my DE and Orks for two more sets of Tau. I'm not running more than the number of neutral cards in a single core set (by choice) and I'm not trading away the allies to Tau (SM and Eldar) until I make a decision on them. I may barter for a few more of the ally cards that I want (like Eager Recruit and Exterminatus) but if I can't get my hands on those, I'll buy them from the inevitable people who buy a core set to try and turn it around for money for singles.Yeah, they don't make as much as they would on Magic singles but there's still a few of them out there.

 

So, I buy a single core set and still get the number of cards I need to play a competitive deck of the type I want while still having extra cards to be flexible with. If you know other people who are interested, then it's about communication. If not, then be smart. I'm sure you can find someone who considers the cards you want extraneous and is willing to sell them for less than the cost of 2 more core sets. 

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What, exactly, do you hope to achieve by complaining about this on a forum? You get to vent a little, but ultimately achieve nothing.

If you really feel strongly enough about something like this, there is one kind of protest FFG will listen to, and that's by protesting with your wallet. If enough people felt that strongly that they refused to buy the product, then FFG would HAVE to change what they're doing.

Thing is, it's pretty freakin' clear that enough people WILL buy the game with the current distribution model. The vast majority either have no problem with it, or don't have enough of a problem with it to avoid buying it.

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