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Lionus

General thoughts on Askellon

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Come on, guys. Give it a break.

 

It is just the core rulebook, that has some first impressions on the new sector.

 

After having read the section, I dont think the sector is that bad at all. Give it some time to develop - it has some quite nice pieces in it already.

 

> Port Aquila has definitely potential to get some bad-guy-haven flair, considered, Kul is not too far, this really will be an area where the inquisition has a hard time and has potential for interesting scenarios

> I like Enkidu somehow better than Iocanthos

> Thaur has a lot of potential for dark cults and strange philosophies - in m eyes it is so far more interesting than any boring existing shrine world in DH1 so far

> Desoleum might not be an innovation, but it carries some nice ideas, which is already more than this boring Scintilla had

> Port Lokhart with its connection to Rogue Trader Dynasty Surena also offers some nice scenario ideas

> Tuchulcha is an Daemon world - helloooooo - how cool is that ?

> Furthermore Aventine, Terminus Prime and even Juno offer some nice future potential

 

And we have an Astartes recruiting world and I even saw a war world on the map !

 

This whole sector is a very good mix of different elements, with a really grimdark setting, compared to the "happy inquisition club" in calixis thathad a much too easy job in a comparably stable sector ;)

 

ANd coming to the map - yes I would also like to have an additional star map - but so far this map is quite useable, especially as warp routes are much more important for travelling than any real space distances.

 

And I am sure there also will be a lot of future hostile groups, as some are already stated in the book. The faceless trade for example, or the Insurrati, the Callers of Sorrow, the Helbringers of Deth, the Hidden Hand, Blessed Deliverance, the Children of the Red God, Carnival Pandaemonium...

Eldar are here, and Orks, Calixis and Koronus are close enough to reasonably allow for the enemies from there to also appear here (Slaugth, Beast House...), and who knows what old Xenos from the Depths of Desoleum still might appear...

 

Give this sector a chance and some time to get more details through following books.

 

And I cant believe I read somewhere before about "worth saving".

Would you want to give up whole humanity just because they are at the edge of damnation ? YOu need to fight to live one more day and give your everything to save each bastion of humanity you somehow can.

Is Askellon lost ? It probably is. But not today. And not tomorrow. So go on and fight.

Edited by GauntZero

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Come on, guys. Give it a break.

 

It is just the core rulebook, that has some first impressions on the new sector.

 

After having read the section, I dont think the sector is that bad at all. Give it some time to develop - it has some quite nice pieces in it already.

 

> Port Aquila has definitely potential to get some bad-guy-haven flair, considered, Kul is not too far, this really will be an area where the inquisition has a hard time and has potential for interesting scenarios

> I like Enkidu somehow better than Iocanthos

> Thaur has a lot of potential for dark cults and strange philosophies - in m eyes it is so far more interesting than any boring existing shrine world in DH1 so far

> Desoleum might not be an innovation, but it carries some nice ideas, which is already more than this boring Scintilla had

> Port Lokhart with its connection to Rogue Trader Dynasty Surena also offers some nice scenario ideas

> Tuchulcha is an Daemon world - helloooooo - how cool is that ?

> Furthermore Aventine, Terminus Prime and even Juno offer some nice future potential

 

And we have an Astartes recruiting world and I even saw a war world on the map !

 

This whole sector is a very good mix of different elements, with a really grimdark setting, compared to the "happy inquisition club" in calixis thathad a much too easy job in a comparably stable sector ;)

 

ANd coming to the map - yes I would also like to have an additional star map - but so far this map is quite useable, especially as warp routes are much more important for travelling than any real space distances.

 

And I am sure there also will be a lot of future hostile groups, as some are already stated in the book. The faceless trade for example, or the Insurrati, the Callers of Sorrow, the Helbringers of Deth, the Hidden Hand, Blessed Deliverance, the Children of the Red God, Carnival Pandaemonium...

Eldar are here, and Orks, Calixis and Koronus are close enough to reasonably allow for the enemies from there to also appear here (Slaugth, Beast House...), and who knows what old Xenos from the Depths of Desoleum still might appear...

 

Give this sector a chance and some time to get more details through following books.

 

And I cant believe I read somewhere before about "worth saving".

Would you want to give up whole humanity just because they are at the edge of damnation ? YOu need to fight to live one more day and give your everything to save each bastion of humanity you somehow can.

Is Askellon lost ? It probably is. But not today. And not tomorrow. So go on and fight.

 

I feel I've got to agree with this. 

 

While Calixis feels more fleshed out it has also had a much larger time to be fleshed out. Remember what's in the v.1 core alone? It isn't very much to be honest.

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I was never that partial to Calixus. My favourite one they've done is Jericho Reach actually. So I'll take a more impartial look at Askelion.

 

Also where in the universe is Askelion? Does it say? I haven't had a lot of time to read yet.

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I'm not really familiar with DH1. I bought the book because of the art and never ran it. I was only familiar with 40k because Dawn of War. It was big introduction into the finer details of 40k. Seriously first time I ever encountered it so I found it all confusing other than what I knew from DoW1. Even the rules were confusing at the time since I was only familiar with 3.5 and Saga edition.

 

Years passed by and I seen Rogue Trader and was impressed by the collectors edition (but young and poor). Couldn't even afford the core, and I can't believe it but I didn't think I would like it enough to save for. Then I heard the line was going to go out of business. Then got bought out. At this point a passing interest in 40k had built up. So I seen Deathwatch get released. By then I had a fairly good idea of the world of 40k, and my friends knew enough about Space Marines they wanted me to run the system.

 

And then I ran the system for several years as our main campaign. I had to end it recently due to being unable to challenge them and a lot of problems with the rules that no one was happy with. I was trying to house rule it into a playable state, but they couldn't handle it. Despite me just taking the rules from Only War and implementing them. They hated being "nerfed" and thought I was out to suddenly personally get them. When I told them these were official rules and not me making **** up they got mad. I showed them the newer books and there has been seething resentment ever since with two players who never got over it.

 

Everyone else liked the newer more balanced rules though. The other two are fairly infamous for their min maxing.

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Everyone else liked the newer more balanced rules though. The other two are fairly infamous for their min maxing.

And that's exactly why in this case at least their opinions do not matter in my personal opinion.

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I don't think anyone said they weren't going to give it a chance to develop, we all recognize that not even all the most prominent worlds of the Processional are covered in the book. I just wasn't particularly impressed with most of the worlds that were covered. Like I said before, Juno is actually pretty cool. The cemetery world might be interesting, although Enkidu is one of the most boring pieces to me. It's been ripped from Mahir in the Jericho Reach, the only difference is it resists the Pandaemonium, instead of tyranids. I actually thought Scintilla was pretty interesting too, though.

Just like anything else, some of us are going to like one more than the other, there's no harm in that. I just wanted to see what other ideas were out there on it.

 

I wrote that the Askellon sector isn't worth saving. That's my opinion, not some sort of undeniable fact. I personally see the Imperium as an empire in decline, with tough decisions to make on how to spend it's declining resources. Inquisitors sometimes declare exterminatus on an entire planet to save it's contagion from spreading. Cordoning off the Askellon sector is a logical extension of that. In my opinion only, not in some absolute way. No one is giving up on humanity, they're trying to protect the body by containing and removing the cancer. I also think there's nothing wrong with the perspective that every world must be jealously held on to in some sort of pride bound lebensraum. There's plenty of evidence of that attitude in 40k books and stories as well.

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One thing I do like about the new setting is the scarcity of Inquisitors. I never liked the idea that Calixis had scores of Inquisitors and their agents running around, and much prefer a setting where there are only a few (or even only one) in the sector. It does kinda show that the Inquisition has largely given up on Askellon too.

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That's true, it certainly gives the notion of so much to do so incredibly little time. If you can keep up with it all you could run a pretty dynamic game with each planet having factions vying for control and moving against one another.

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I don't think anyone said they weren't going to give it a chance to develop, we all recognize that not even all the most prominent worlds of the Processional are covered in the book. I just wasn't particularly impressed with most of the worlds that were covered. Like I said before, Juno is actually pretty cool. The cemetery world might be interesting, although Enkidu is one of the most boring pieces to me. It's been ripped from Mahir in the Jericho Reach, the only difference is it resists the Pandaemonium, instead of tyranids. I actually thought Scintilla was pretty interesting too, though.

Just like anything else, some of us are going to like one more than the other, there's no harm in that. I just wanted to see what other ideas were out there on it.

 

I wrote that the Askellon sector isn't worth saving. That's my opinion, not some sort of undeniable fact. I personally see the Imperium as an empire in decline, with tough decisions to make on how to spend it's declining resources. Inquisitors sometimes declare exterminatus on an entire planet to save it's contagion from spreading. Cordoning off the Askellon sector is a logical extension of that. In my opinion only, not in some absolute way. No one is giving up on humanity, they're trying to protect the body by containing and removing the cancer. I also think there's nothing wrong with the perspective that every world must be jealously held on to in some sort of pride bound lebensraum. There's plenty of evidence of that attitude in 40k books and stories as well.

 

I agree. I think my campaign in this sector will revolve around it's removal from the Imperium. Rather than saving it. And ensuring that when it is finally gone whatever gets it is in such a stalemate it won't ever be a threat, or to eliminate it as a threat for as long a possible.

 

Thanks for the awesome idea. This also gives the players a real chance to go on the offensive, and make some tough choices. What if there are a few groups of people who need to be saved? Who could be worth it to the Imperium. How do they save these small groups? Lot's of inter Imperium politics.

 

It sounds like a complete change of pace to normal Dark Heresy.

Edited by Gamgee

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One thing I do like about the new setting is the scarcity of Inquisitors. I never liked the idea that Calixis had scores of Inquisitors and their agents running around, and much prefer a setting where there are only a few (or even only one) in the sector. It does kinda show that the Inquisition has largely given up on Askellon too.

 

Does it state that anywher ein the book ?

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TBF it doesn't state much in the book. That's the problem; inevitably there will be a book telling us more that will come out months from now when it's much less important.

 

Some of the stuff doesn't make much sense. Desoleum and Juno seem identical. Post apocalyptic overpopulated places falling to pieces. Bit of a yawn. Desoleum's baroque society seems rather self defeating; how are players to interact with it if it's as complicated as it says?

 

They spend two pages describing Enkidu as a mysterious place without explaining why. The stuff about the ecclesiarchy is interesting but the planet being massively deadly with the ground monsters and the forest dwelling tribesfolk doesn't leave much to work with. Myesteries are great, but not when they are so cryptic that even the GM doesn't know what's going on.

 

And that's it for the major planets; the rest of them aren't covered at all. What about the other hive world, the agri world, the mining world and the mechanicus world etc?

 

No mention of the structure of the Inquisition's presence within, unlike DH1 which had a whole list of people and stuff including the Tyrantine Cabal. No Pandaemonium Cabal, for example.

 

Ok so we are meant to make this stuff up. But that's rather half arsed.

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I agree that they indeed should have detailed the Inquisitions organisation and presemnce in Askellon a little more detailed.

 

For me, it is currently a little difficult to see their role and power in the sector. I think a future supplement should definitely deal with this.

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I believe it was stated way back in a design document that Askellon had incredibly few inquisitors in it.

 

I don't know I guess I'm just willing to give any sector a chance that isn't already established in the fluff of the wargame which I find those to be terribly dull personally.

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"Sweet home, Askellon..." *sings*

 

Actually, the more I read, I really like the following locations best so far:

> Port Aquila VS Terminus Prime --> great opportunities for trade wars

> Thaur: really like this macabre planet and the options the different cults provide

> Rosenkreuz Cluster: the perfect place to let heresy grow

> Desoleum: really getting into this oath cog idea

 

 

What I really would love to see would be a community planet design contest - where the winner could be published :D

Edited by GauntZero

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I am not terribly impressed. One of the major problems is that it is just sooo over the top. It was too grimdark, too epic, too perverted, too everything. How come does every planet have some sort of crisis that is just simmering under the surface and is about to cause it's collapse. Not only does it look like a John Blanche painting, it felt like a setting which was a John Blanche painting done in word form. Yes, it is very evocative of the setting, but these things are to give a feel for the setting, in broad strokes. They simply don't work in detail (much as John Blanche's paintings are not "actually" how things would look in the "real" 40k universe, as humans are simply not shaped that way).

 

Calixis at least felt as if people could live in it. It was dark, it was weird, it was grim, but it was just plausible enough that I felt "This is a weird place, wonder what it would be like to live there" rather than "Erm... this doesn't work." Askellon hasn't quite managed this.

 

So you are complainig 40k is to 40k. Riiiight.

Don't overthink this stuff.

Take the basic weapons mankind uses for instance: In M30. they had lasguns for the imperial army and bolters for the space marine legions. 10.000 (!) years later they have lasguns for the imperial guard and bolters for the SM chapters. That's the equivalent if us humans of today still fought with pointed sticks and stones! When the fluff books say stuff like "ignorance is bliss" that's not for the characters, thats for the players.

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I could have done with less information on the gangs of Desoleum, since we aren't playing Necromunda, and more on the actual day to day life within a hive. The baroque stuff, like oathcogs, is all well and good, but how do people live in the hive? This is important for ag ame like this, as it's not Only War or Space Marines. Do these people ever do anything but slave in the factories? Do they get paid? What do they eat? Do they all have rickets from being indoors all the time? Are they all constantly exposed to toxins and radiation? I get that life in the 41st millenium is ostensibly harsh, but the supporting fiction supposes a more rounded take on that setting which is necessary for the game to work IMO. I never finished it but Titanicus is set on an almost bucolic world that gets invaded.

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One of the worst things about 1st Ed (and there were many candidates), was the Calixis Sector.  Very, very dull is about the best i could muster.  I never could get enthusiastic about any of it, which is probably why the expansions that gave Calixis-centric add-ons never really gripped me either.

 

The Koronus Expanse was far better.

 

I'm still assimilating Askellon but so far i'm inspired by what i've read.  It 'feels' so much more interesting, is so far all i can say.

 

Depending on how things go, my next campaign will either use Askellon, or i'll simply 'port over the Fading Suns setting as a new sector.

I have to say I found Koronus very, very dull in most cases... this even extended to the map... Ok, it is a new sector, so there isn't much going on yet, but the blankness off it just added to the dullness of the setting. Not so much of a problem in the end, as the whole idea is that is an open sandbox to go exploring in, so you don't want a lot detailed, but of what was detailed I don't think much ever grabbed me a whole lot.

 

Personally I'd use Askellon for the aftermath of the Chaos Commandment adventure, the Calaxis is essentially in flames at that point

One of the reasons I didn't like that series... one of the whole points of the Calixis sector is that it is comparatively quiet, with the threats largely hidden. I don't mind the diea of a planet descending into a religious civil war, but the whole goddam sector?

 

Come on, guys. Give it a break.

 

It is just the core rulebook, that has some first impressions on the new sector.

 

> Tuchulcha is an Daemon world - helloooooo - how cool is that ?

Yes, there is plenty of opportunity for expansion which is fine, and it may improve over time.

 

I personally don't want a Daemon world in my Dark heresy setting. That is for Black Crusade... which I am not too keen on either.

 

 

I am not terribly impressed. One of the major problems is that it is just sooo over the top. It was too grimdark, too epic, too perverted, too everything. How come does every planet have some sort of crisis that is just simmering under the surface and is about to cause it's collapse. Not only does it look like a John Blanche painting, it felt like a setting which was a John Blanche painting done in word form. Yes, it is very evocative of the setting, but these things are to give a feel for the setting, in broad strokes. They simply don't work in detail (much as John Blanche's paintings are not "actually" how things would look in the "real" 40k universe, as humans are simply not shaped that way).

 

Calixis at least felt as if people could live in it. It was dark, it was weird, it was grim, but it was just plausible enough that I felt "This is a weird place, wonder what it would be like to live there" rather than "Erm... this doesn't work." Askellon hasn't quite managed this.

 

So you are complainig 40k is to 40k. Riiiight.

Don't overthink this stuff.

Take the basic weapons mankind uses for instance: In M30. they had lasguns for the imperial army and bolters for the space marine legions. 10.000 (!) years later they have lasguns for the imperial guard and bolters for the SM chapters. That's the equivalent if us humans of today still fought with pointed sticks and stones! When the fluff books say stuff like "ignorance is bliss" that's not for the characters, thats for the players.

 

Yes, I am complaining 40k is too 40k. There is a difference from a general mood (the grim darkness of the far future), and applying this to everything. The whole thing is grim, grim, grim to an extent that doesn't make it a terribly good setting to me. I am no more motivated to care or believe in these planets as the locations in Black Crusade... and at least they are in a warp/realspace overlap which can justify the whole bizarreness.

 

Calixis had plenty of unrealistic stuff, it just had enough to it to make it pass my suspension of disbelief. Askellon doesn't.

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I could have done with 

Exactly, they just did their best to give something for everyone. It's not for you.

 

 

Personally I'd use Askellon for the aftermath of the Chaos Commandment adventure, the Calaxis is essentially in flames at that point

One of the reasons I didn't like that series... one of the whole points of the Calixis sector is that it is comparatively quiet, with the threats largely hidden. I don't mind the diea of a planet descending into a religious civil war, but the whole goddam sector?

Yes, there is plenty of opportunity for expansion which is fine, and it may improve over time.

I don't like the series either, it's just what I'd use the adventure for.

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Askellon is starting to sound more interesting; the Aventine write up is just the sort of thing that's needed I think (until it goes pop, of course).

 

Would be nice to hear more about the Inquisition's take on it, but I really don't care to wait six months for the 2e Inquisitor's Handbook.

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I intend to continue using Calixis. I'm very fond of some of those planets. Not that they couldn't be re-worked over into Askellon, but I don't see the point when I could just keep the more fleshed-out sector and port in some of the newer stuff.

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I finally got to read the adventure in the back last night, which warmed me up to Desoleum somewhat, if not a whole lot, and not Askellon in general. It did, however, prompt me to look back at the sector a little bit more, and, I might be making a really big leap from a really small cliff, but I picked up on some things that I missed earlier.

 

The Terminus/Port Aquila feud could potentially involve a lot of rogue traders. Additionally Port Lockhart and the Rosenkruez cluster provide a little more support to those type of stories anyway.

 

Nurn Delta is a SM recruiting world. Not particularly interesting, as there is a whole chapter based in Calixis (and it's my opinion that probably the same chapter uses both). It does put SM's in the sector with regularity, and there are plenty of things worth a Chapter's attention in the sector.

 

Tuchulcha is a daemon world, one that seems to be a gateway into an entire other sector within a highly compressed space.

 

Really, there are some other possible explanations, like a great interest in variety, or a genuine attempt to truly make something for everyone in this game. However, I'm just throwing this out there for others to think about and comment on, but does it seem like there's a legitimate 'turf' for all the other lines with the exception (so far) of Only War? We've been clamoring for years for more continuity between the lines, lots of people's games have mixed characters from one line to the other, we have a pretty stable and versatile system in this new second edition. Lines like Rogue Trader and Deathwatch really need an update.

 

FFG is starting the whole thing from scratch, not picking up from Black Industries, so they get to make the game they really want to make. Things like subtlety might be an individual mechanic for DH, where other lines will have identical or nearly identical combat and psyker and social mechanics with each game's individual thing that makes it unique. All characters could in theory meet and interact, since they're all in the same neighborhood, so to speak.

 

If this is the case, what might that mean for you? I for one am cautiously optimistic about it. That could be really really interesting, and really really fun.

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I am nt so sure that the sector (yet) provides enoughvbattleground for a Deathwatch or Only War Campaign (which might be solved if you go 10 years later perhaps), but I can perfectly see it as a Rogue Trader Sector, with lots of lost planets to explore, trade intrigues to be shared and foes to be fought.

Black Crusade could be loosely connected via Tuchulcha. But I really think that a merging withbRT would be it, maybe even merging both lines by just giving RT a kind of DH2 supplement for missing roles, starship combat and maybe xenos options. As the sector already exists, the rules should remain the same, and the fluff can still be used from "RT1"...I wouldnt see why this couldnt work.

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Yesterday got the book.

To be honest first impression is very positive. I had run 40,000 since first DH published. It was DH, RT, DW and then had 1,5 year break fr One Ring. Last days reading in this forum I was much afraid and somehow disappointed. I wanted to restart DH with new team ................... but now at first glance it seems great. Atmosphere is even more core 40,000. So dark, so deep, so fascinating again :)

Yes, I did expect new modern mechanics but that old system still works. Now, facelifted. In the end it is 40,000 universe What makes me dm it and Askelon is somehow refreshing however strange refreshing means in case of 2nd edition

I'm motivated again :)

Edited by Shemov

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