Are the rebels simply better?

[Introverdant 707]

 

A z95 swarm is still no where near as good as a howlrunner swarm.

 

Statistics of tournament results would disagree with you.

 

 

Sample size of what again? A hundred matches? Fifty?

LOL

[Marinealver 8,068]

The Rebels are easier to learn because they are more forgiving with their shields and have a smaller range of movement  so it is easier to eye where you will land. Also you don't have as many ships on the board so much easier to plan and place the dials.

 

Tie Swarm is more of an Advanced type of squadron. If you play Tie Swarm as the first time you play X-Wing you are not going to like it as you find yourself running into your own fighters and every rock and obstacle on the map.

 

Not saying that Imperial players are more skilled than Rebel players, there are many good rebel player that don't rely on shields and jousting B-wings. It is just a little easier to pick up.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Marinealver

[BigKahuna 731]

 

 

A z95 swarm is still no where near as good as a howlrunner swarm.

 

Statistics of tournament results would disagree with you.

 

 

Sample size of what again? A hundred matches? Fifty?

LOL

 

 

Currently I'm unaware of any tournament in which a Tie Swarm beat a Z95 Swarm, so my understanding is that since the release of Z95 they are the new default swarms.  More then that though, Z95 Swarms do better in the current meta where Tie Swarms are falling off.  In my defense though, this information is second hand, I don't follow tournaments that closely.

Edited August 18, 2014 by BigKahuna

[FTS Gecko 23,148]

No.  The Imperials just have a steeper learning curve, that's all.

 

In the Shuttle and TIE Fighter, the Imperials have some of the most points effective ships in the game.  In the Interceptor and Phantom, they have some of the most maneuverable arc dodgers in the game.  Add to that the Firespray and the Defender and the Imperials can put out some serious pain.

 

The Rebels almost need their shields and turrets at this point just to remain competitive.

[VikingMaekel 73]

I run a squad with a Firespray and two TIE Interceptors. It performs really well actually.

It is unforgiving when you make mistakes, but oh so satisfying when you pull of victories.

I love squints.

[Lagomorphia 1,285]

The rebels have been favored by FFG in the area of vastly more customization and synergistic abilities and unique crew. I still prefer the imperial ship selection but the rebels are now able to swarm ships so they have even moved into the biggest strength of the imperials. I am hoping that the imperials will someday close the gap on unique crew options and synergistic abilities. Thankfully we still have the best one in Howlrunner.

 

The Rebels have synergy because that's their faction identity by design, the designers said they don't want to give that sort of synergistic ability ("help your friends" they called it) to the Imperials or the Scum. The Imperials get very fast and slippery elite ships and numbers. Yeah, you can fly 8 Z-95s but they're nowhere near as good at it as TIE fighters. If they TIEs stick together they've got Howlrunner and if they break they can outfly the Zs. There's a guy in the French Nationals (he won overall) with 4x Academy 4x Obsidian, not flying in a block. The Z-swarm is so prevalent right now because it's new and people want to fly the new thing and the Howlswarm was spooked away by the Phantom.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Lagomorphia

[AlexW 2,902]

 

 

 

A z95 swarm is still no where near as good as a howlrunner swarm.

 

Statistics of tournament results would disagree with you.

 

 

Sample size of what again? A hundred matches? Fifty?

LOL

 

 

Currently I'm unaware of any tournament in which a Tie Swarm beat a Z95 Swarm, so my understanding is that since the release of Z95 they are the new default swarms.  More then that though, Z95 Swarms do better in the current meta where Tie Swarms are falling off.  In my defense though, this information is second hand, I don't follow tournaments that closely.

 

 

Maybe don't make a sweeping claim like "tournament statistics disagree" then?  

 

According the MJ's regional thread, Z-95s and TIE swarms (7-8 ships) are seeing about the same usage overall.  However, I don't think a Z-95 Swarm has won a major tournament since Wave 4 while a TIE swarm has.  Recently at nationals, a TIE swarm made the top 8, but no Z-95 swarm.

[keroko 492]

A z95 swarm is still no where near as good as a howlrunner swarm.

A Z-95 swarm supported by Ethan, on the other hand, makes people who love hull values nervous.

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

The rebels have been favored by FFG in the area of vastly more customization and synergistic abilities and unique crew. I still prefer the imperial ship selection but the rebels are now able to swarm ships so they have even moved into the biggest strength of the imperials. I am hoping that the imperials will someday close the gap on unique crew options and synergistic abilities. Thankfully we still have the best one in Howlrunner.

Please note that a substantial portion of what you're describing here is faction identity, not favoritism.

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

Also if you want to get Mathwing about it, statistically speaking you are more likely to lose a match because of bad rolling with Imperials then you are with Rebels...

That's not true, and I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

[Hobojebus 11,341]

Rebels are easier for new players but better no, imps are not meant to joust mindlessly you have the best manoeuvres you have to learn to use them.

If you want to joust and win take two defenders and a firespray with recon specialist, you fly right at them and trade some shots then k turn the defenders and use the sprays rear arc, you have your actions they either have to stress themselves by k turning or eat the shots.

Imp lists are fully capable of winning if your losing alot your doing something wrong, go do some reading watch some vids don't just Wright them off.

[AlexW 2,902]

Since playing a lot of imperials, whenever I play the rebels I find myself missing the extra maneuverability and ability to simply make shots simply miss, or not take them at all.

Edited August 18, 2014 by AlexW

[Gadge 4,294]

I have to agree with a lot of the guys on here.

 

If you understand and practice  movement (sounds lame i know but actually *practicing* moving your ships through an asterid field or just in formation is well worth doing) without an opponent to the point where you know exactly where a ship will end up and not *roughly where it will end up* then the Imperials become a very very strong list to play against.

 

I always feel i've got more options with an Imperial list as well (possibly because of my model collection), manouvre is the key as even the first shot on you can hamstring you if you've got a bat critical drawn, got to use that speed, boost and barrel roll to stay out of arc and hopefully have them in yours.

 

I don't think the game is that unbalanced.  I've played quite a few games in the last few months (maybe 40-50) and nearly every non scenerrio '100 point death match '   *victory* ends with only one or possibly two of the vicotrs ships on the table, usually with a single hull point left.

 

I've played about four games where one side has massacred the other and its 50 50 reb and 50 50 imperials.

 

Then again im not playing tournys against strangers, im playing in a local group of good friends so know one hammers the maths out of it for critical 'points efficinecy' they just fly casual and pick characterful.

[keroko 492]

Also if you want to get Mathwing about it, statistically speaking you are more likely to lose a match because of bad rolling with Imperials then you are with Rebels...

That's not true, and I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Fell getting one-shot at range 3 through an asteroid is hardly a rare story to hear.

That's the key part of the high-risk, high-reward playstyle of Imperial fighters like the Interceptor and Phantom. Their low hull means that as soon as someone with a 3-dice weapon gets a bead on you, anything with 4 THP or lower has a chance of being one-shot if the dice are against you (seriously, I've lost a Phantom this way). The rebels have this far less due most of their popular ships being THP 5 or higher, with a minimum of 2 of that THP being shields. They'll be able to survive the range 3 exchange (the hardest non-turret arc to dodge) of a 3-dice attack even in the worst case scenario.

... no, wait, that's not entirely true. A 3-dice attack from a Doomshuttle can still one-two X-wings. But aside from that, a 3-dice attack won't kill anything with at least 3 hull and 2 shields. Which most popular rebel fighters do.

That's part of the reason why the swarm was born in the first place. It mitigates much of the risk of losing ships early on due to bad dice rolls.

[tiefanatic 453]

I've been playing this game for a minute now and it really seems like the rebels are simply better. Superior shields almost all around. 360 degree arcs with the falcon. Astromechs. Every time I play imperial I get smoked by them I have a 1-4 win rate as imperial and I'm not lacking content. I have everything but the tie bomber and shuttle. The only time I win is when I just do a tie swarm with howlrunner and in my eyes is the only thing they have going for them and that's what everyone runs in tournaments Maybe I'm just missing some huge part of the game. But basically I'm only going to play rebels from now on.

TREEEEEEASSSOOOONNNN! No, the rebels are not better. The Rebels are easier to fly. Because they're sissys. They have to have shields and turrets and failsafes, because they're so bad at flying. The Imperials are harder to fly, but when you do it right, you kick Scum butt.

 

Edit: Also, we have a turret now too.

Edited August 18, 2014 by tiefanatic

[Gadge 4,294]

I always used to like playing games with that was considered the 'weakest' army as you get a real kick when you win.

 

I played imperial guard for years in warhammer 40 (they became very good but for years they were really hard to use well)

 

Likewise i played (and playtested) dark elves for warhammer, for a long time they were very weak, my suggestions during playtesting helped but as no one in the design studio played them they never had a 'champion' with a vested interest in making them particularly competetive.

 

In contrast at the the time the studio manager played Orcs and Goblins so their list was always horrific to play against.

 

The point being, to me the 'x wing' is a great allrounder its forgiving of mistake, you dont really need to think too much about what you're doing as the first couple of hits you take you shrug off.... with imperials you cant afford a single hit, that first hit could be the critical that makes you PS0 for the game and all of sudden your PS6 royal guard is marginally more useful than a tie fighter as he loses his ability to get himself out of the way by shifting around once every one else is in play.

[tiefanatic 453]

 

 

The point being, to me the 'x wing' is a great allrounder its forgiving of mistake, you dont really need to think too much about what you're doing as the first couple of hits you take you shrug off.... with imperials you cant afford a single hit, that first hit could be the critical that makes you PS0 for the game and all of sudden your PS6 royal guard is marginally more useful than a tie fighter as he loses his ability to get himself out of the way by shifting around once every one else is in play.

Like i said, the rebels are easier, not better. 

Edited August 18, 2014 by tiefanatic

[SmartCookie 1,252]

No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

 

The Rebels allow for a few more player mistakes/bad dice rolls as they are (generally) protected by shields whereas the Empire is less forgiving.

 

To be good with the Empire you need to learn, and take advantage of, their maneuverability.  

Edited August 18, 2014 by Veldrin

[executor 657]

 

My gf flies imperials exclusively & kicks my tail about 50% of the time. She doesn't typically play swarms either but more elite lists. My god does she make excellent use of advanceds & interceptors! I think our last two non epic games she actually had fewer ships than I & I don't zwarm.

I need to consult your girlfriend asap if she has this down. She clearly knows something I'm clueless about

 

 

predicting your opponents maneuvers is a large part of empire play as well, empire takes longer to master and requires more time and investment to understand how it works and much less forgiving if you make a mistake

 

but once you do, you will see why a 3 hp ship like soontir fel can single handily ruin your opponents day

[Gadge 4,294]

I agree with you both.

 

Essentially, and its easier to make this comparison with anew faction (even if we know only a little about it)

 

Rebels are like the 'space marines' or xwing.  In 40k you can play space marines badly and do ok, you can play them well and do well but they are so forgiving you dont *really* need that much skill.   High skills, low numbers, good armour, hit hard, soak damage...   i could be talking about an xwing or a space marine there.

[Gadge 4,294]

i totally sucked at playing IMP until i spent a day practising and getting my head around manouvres. You dont have time even in a casual game to think that hard about where that 3 bank will take you, you certainly cant try it out and go bakc a step if it doesnt work.

 

I watched some tutorials on 'formation flying' and other aspects like using ints properly and it improved my game massively without being overly harsh on my opponent.  They didnt particularly notice but i did as i was crashing into things less.

 

I hardly ever hit a friendly ship or asteroid these days and when i want to i can keep TIEs quite close together.

 

Just from a day of mucking about practising moves.

 

I've never felt the need to do that with rebels but the practice still helped when playing them but its less of an issue when you've got a max of four ships on board.

[tiefanatic 453]

I agree with you both.

 

Essentially, and its easier to make this comparison with anew faction (even if we know only a little about it)

 

Rebels are like the 'space marines' or xwing.  In 40k you can play space marines badly and do ok, you can play them well and do well but they are so forgiving you dont *really* need that much skill.   High skills, low numbers, good armour, hit hard, soak damage...   i could be talking about an xwing or a space marine there.

Exactly. And Imps are like the 'Eldar' of X-wing. Not very forgiving if you make a mistake, but if you play them well...they are AMAZING.

[Martel 53]

It takes more than a minute to play the game...  and you definitely can't play 5 games in just a minute unless your just that horrible at the game

person being obviously ignorant is obvious. 

 

Some people will say they have been doing something for a "minute" meaning a not so long period of time such as a few months or even a few years. 

[DreadStar 1,124]

Empire have a higher floor skill ceiling in my opinion. This means you need to be better to start getting average results than you would with rebels. The better the players, the less this matters. 

[Scizzler 112]

It takes more than a minute to play the game...  and you definitely can't play 5 games in just a minute unless your just that horrible at the game

"Nothing goes over my head, my reflexes are too fast!" 

A minute is a commonly used expression for "a while"