Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Knucklesamwich

Why so few hero's that can fill Glorfindels shoes.

Recommended Posts

I love secrecy. From the moment I first played a secrecy deck I felt like this is what the fellowship of the ring was all about. Deciding who to attack and when, keeping your threat low is very thematic to me when I play. Why do you think it is then that we do not get any more heroes that can rival spirit Glorfindel. I thought the hobbits would fill that role but they are a bit too expensive to get a good 3 hero deck so I always have to fall back on Glorfindel+Light of the Valinor. I really hope FFG will give us some way to overcome this because there is not much choice unless you drop too two heroes and that comes with some severe limitations. Maybe I can do a good Gandalf + Hobbit deck now but it still seems it will be hard to pull off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because Glorfindel is overpowered,  simply put. I'm personally glad FFG has not yet printed such powerful heroes. Glorfindel has negatively and extensively affected the game, as seen in 3 quest points minimum locations and locations that are immune to player card effects (thanks Asfaloth!). He is the one serious mistep in FFG otherwise very solid design (imho more than outlands and Dain).

 

I think secrecy was originally intended to focus on 2 hero decks but this chancged with Glorfindel and the Hobbits. Surely, adding a Glorfidel alternative would hurt the game and I'd rather they refrained from that. I'm fine with Hobbits personally.

 

What's really missing are tactics secrecy cards!

Edited by FetaCheese

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think your absolutely right, i use him a lot in my solo decks, because he brings so much to the table. 5 threat, 3 will, 3 attack, 1 def, 5 HP. LoV for questing and then Attacking. Spirit sphere has a ton of important cancelation and threat reducing cards, including a 0 cost 3 threat reduction that pairs with him. He's also got asfalof, to place 2 progress, and can use Rivindell blades. That's just a few things that make him so awesome. He can fit into just about any deck type and make it better.

I use him a lot, and I will continue to do so, because he is often the best solution for many decks. I sure as heck would love more options that could rival him, but the main problem I think the designers face when introducing heroes with very good stats and low threat is that they can be paired together. Imagine if you could have 3 comparable heroes and start at 15 threat.

My thought is the designers need to get creative in finding ways to create a few more low threat heroes like this, but come up with ways to restrict paring them all together. Mirlonde is a perfect example.

When Idraen first came out I balked at her high threat. I suggested that her card would have been even more playable if she had an additional ability along the lines of: if you control any heroes with 9 or less threat she is 11 threat, otherwise her threat is 5 or something like this. It could make sense thematically too. With high threat heroes she can make them more elusive, and with low threat heroes she needs to be more threatening to protect them.

So , in this case you could pair her with Aragorn and Beravor and start at 27 threat, but if you paired her with two 6 threat hobbits threat would be 23, and put the kabosh on paring her with Glorfindel. This would give her a lot more deck building options, since for now I can't build a deck with her without spirit Glorfindel in it, and I tried the dunedain build, but 33 threat is a bit much.

Another way to do this is to scale threat by trait, and like we saw with Mirlonde sphere. By trait would be cool, like if you control all ranger heroes, said hero's threat is 6 or whatever. Or, said heroes threat is 12 if you control a noldor hero, and 4 if you don't. Maybe mimicking some hero that has bad relationship with Noldor.

Anyway, the game is in need of some heroes that shake up the regular stat distribution that we see, since many are leaning toward the high end of the threat value, which is making it difficult not to include Glorfindel when building with these new heroes at least for solo. I mean Gandalf threat 14, for me that pretty much screams here's Glorfindel to the rescue.

On another note, new Haldir hero with 9 threat is very satisfying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather they stick with standard stat distribution. The risk in introducing such heroes is too great for the health of the game. It would be ideal if the community would self-regulate itself by actively avoiding using Spirit Glorfindel, Outlands etc, but that will never happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everything i say relates to solo play, and sure there are a lot of great decks that can be made without using him, but there are also many more great decks that can be made because of him. Without him I think the deck building potential would be even more limited, because it would be very difficult to make decent decks using 3 high threat heroes. At least 1 hero needs to be 8 threat or lower, especially if your running high threat heroes. So, without him some combination of heroes would not be possible.

You want to play Elrond and Celeborn together, your starting at 24 threat. At this point even a 6 threat hobbit puts you at 30 threat. Through Galadriel in the mix and now your at 33 threat. Glorfindel gets you at 29, which is still not great, so in some way the game forces players into these hero combinations. It's unfortunate that it does, because it is counter productive to the player who would like to create a deck using Elrond, Celeborn, and Galadriel, because they will then likely get stomped by a hill troll first turn of Anduin.

Although, recent scenarios are allowing for players to start with a higher threat and still be successful, but i still like to keep my decks starting below 30 and only rarely above.

Anyway, i see no problem in introducing heroes that allow for a greater range of deck building like Glorfindel allowed, as long is it is done in a way that prevents combining these superheroes together like i mentioned before in the previous post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather they stick with standard stat distribution. The risk in introducing such heroes is too great for the health of the game. It would be ideal if the community would self-regulate itself by actively avoiding using Spirit Glorfindel, Outlands etc, but that will never happen.

 

I agree. It's too much of a risk. The last thing I want to see is more overpowered spirit Glorfy-like heroes clogging up decklists. >_< Your previous comment about the negative impact spirit Glorfy has on the quest design is troubling. I hope that is not the case. If anything, the designers should design quests ignoring the overpowered heroes. If players complain they're too easy, the next question should be asked "Are you using Spirit Glorfindel? If so, swap him out." End of story haha

 

I wish there was some community effort to self regulate, but sadly that won't happen. It's really annoying when I'm looking up a deck list and the first thing I do is see if spirit glorfy is one of the heroes and if he is, I look elsewhere. Simple as that. But that sadly happens more often than not and that's a clear sign of how over powered he is. I refuse to use him. >_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He is more overpowered for solo then multiplayer. When I was playing 2-4 player games he seemed to blend in like most heroes, and did not see that he had a dramatic effect on the game. I think it's hard to say he is more OP then Dain, it just depends on the number of players. However, dane solo or multiplayer is crazy overpowered for most scenarios.

The great thing about this game is people can restrict any cards they want. Personally i don't care any more, since sometimes i'll create decks that restrict cards and other decks that use every power card available. I like that flexibility, since i'm able to increase or decrease difficulty of a scenario based on the deck. Banning cards for this non-competitive solo player seems silly since i'd be missing out on a range of deck building possibilities, and by no means do I find the game so easy that I need to do so especially with Nightmare mode available. I'm fully supportive of weeding out infinite loop type combos that destroy the challenge of the game, but I don't feel like every time I play Glorfindel I'm guaranteed to win.

Interstingly when there was a hero poll some time ago about peoples favorite/best hero card . I think it came down to Legolas, Sam, Glorfindel, and Elrond in the final four. So, i really wonder how many people are on the ban Glorfindel band-wagon. Would love to see an actual poll on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One can't trust polls since people vote based on different criteria, some prefering theme, other uniqueness and other simply crave a high power level. Sorry, I don't mean to sound polemic, but I'd rather FFG avoided a return to the power creep of the Dwarrowdelf cycle (which is imo the only way to provide alternatives to Glor/Asfaloth etc). In that regard I prefer modern card design. I understand why others might disagree though.

Edited by FetaCheese

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with Glorfindel is he dominates decks.

I find this not to be the case. In many decks he is there to just support and make a deck strategy that does not revolve around him possible that otherwise would be hard to manage with any other combination of heroes, because of the high starting threat if he was not in the mix. So, often depending on the deck he will only bring 6 core cards with him LoV and Elrond's Counsel. Personally I don't use Asfalof as much as I once did and don't really miss it all that much when it's not in the deck. Now that card is OP, or was on the earlier scenarios.

The rest of the cards in the deck are selected around the decks strategy and the other 2 heroes in the deck. Sometimes, i'll have a deck where at some point it really does not matter if Glorfindel is questing or attacking anymore. It really just came down to his low starting threat, although his presence in the early game equipped with LoV is what makes him so advantageous, but it some decks that advantage may not even be necessary. It's really all situational, on what the deck is trying to accomplish.

Basically, what i'm saying is he provides more deck building possibilities then without him, and personally I would not mind a few more heroes that allow for this. Really Gandalf hero is nice and all, but how many other heroes can you really build a deck with him. 14 threat really limits the possibilities.

Edited by Tracker1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I think the real problem here is LoV. Cheap inherent readying and no threat increase.

 

What if LoV didnt exist and instead Glor quested without exhausting but still had to raise threat by 1 every round, no exceptions (or only raised threat when questing)? It would be like playing on borrowed time. Just a thought.

Edited by FetaCheese

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A good way to fix this problem is a simply Glorfindel ally ^^. If you play it, sure other players can't play Glorfindel hero. :D

 

That's nothing. Just imagine showing up with a Gandalf hero in a 4 player game! :D

Edited by FetaCheese

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love Glorifindel as hero! He is one of my favorite character in the book. And I love to use lore Version of him in the time of first cycle. Spirit one is really good and give you opportunity to build up different solo decks. But to be honest in sick and tired about him. He is do obvious choice so you can see him everywhere. That is, not right! If I organize some tournament I ban him 100%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A good way to fix this problem is a simply Glorfindel ally ^^. If you play it, sure other players can't play Glorfindel hero. :D

 

And how is that supposed to work? If you have a Glorfindel ally in your deck and some other player has Glorfinder hero - you won't be able to play the ally at all, until Glorfindel hero dies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

A good way to fix this problem is a simply Glorfindel ally ^^. If you play it, sure other players can't play Glorfindel hero. :D

 

That's nothing. Just imagine showing up with a Gandalf hero in a 4 player game! :D

 

 

I think I'll start trolling my gaming group with playing Gandalf and Faramir (our Dáin abuser uses Faramir to quest even easier).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, good idea (trolling with Gandalf and Faramir).

My comment (Glorfindel ally..) is half joke / half true. It is a joke (as a funny way to look at the game). But it could be true, of course.

The problem is that friends could get angry. :angry:  Lol, of course. So you must agree which decks to play. Trololo, i am not speaking about waiting other characters die, i'm speaking about trolling some friend's decks.

 

For me, Glorfindel is boring. Well, if the scenario is so so hard then ok. I (and some friends) have a way of logging quests. Victories without Glorfindel or Outlanders, etc., and victories with Glor....etc. We speak about: 'yeah! we have won Druadan Forest in 4players without Glorfindel!' or 'yeah! we have won Laketown with Outlanders' (and more situations like Boromir in Assault Osgilitah or Fligth to Moria). Let's say: there are 2 levels about winning the games.

 

I think it would be sad if Glorfindel becomes limited. He is funny as now. I think new players like a lot Glorfindel, but when you are becoming advanced player you prefer other ways to build new decks. And i like this situation.

Edited by Mndela

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that glorfindel's importance is reduced in multiplayer. I only play two player and find Beregond to be far more indepensible. First turn gondorian shield and unexpected courage will solve most of your problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I find it strange you guys bring random decks to the table to play. Yeah, it's probably fun, but with difficulty scaling, I found out in the past that random solo decks put together in multiplayer just do not work. 

 

When we play, we carefully build our decks around each other to make combinaiton go around the table and help each other constantly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The problem with Glorfindel is he dominates decks.

I find this not to be the case. In many decks he is there to just support and make a deck strategy that does not revolve around him possible that otherwise would be hard to manage with any other combination of heroes, because of the high starting threat if he was not in the mix. So, often depending on the deck he will only bring 6 core cards with him LoV and Elrond's Counsel. Personally I don't use Asfalof as much as I once did and don't really miss it all that much when it's not in the deck. Now that card is OP, or was on the earlier scenarios.

The rest of the cards in the deck are selected around the decks strategy and the other 2 heroes in the deck. Sometimes, i'll have a deck where at some point it really does not matter if Glorfindel is questing or attacking anymore. It really just came down to his low starting threat, although his presence in the early game equipped with LoV is what makes him so advantageous, but it some decks that advantage may not even be necessary. It's really all situational, on what the deck is trying to accomplish.

Basically, what i'm saying is he provides more deck building possibilities then without him, and personally I would not mind a few more heroes that allow for this. Really Gandalf hero is nice and all, but how many other heroes can you really build a deck with him. 14 threat really limits the possibilities.

 

 

He provides more deck building possibilities because you can get a huge advantage out of taking him. His threat is far too low. Without light of valinor on him you still need to play the game for 7 rounds for him to even match the threat cost he should have for his stats.

Even if he was gain 1 threat a round (regardless of what you do) he would still be arguably over-powered. 

I do understand what you're saying about him opening up deck building (because you can have three powerful heroes and keep your threat low) but he does it in a way which breaks the game. I think that future quests (Heirs of Numenor on-wards) have been harder to compensate for cards like Glorfindel and Dain. (I agree that Dain is much more overpowered).

I also like the idea of having extra cards like a "company" card say. (A company of Rangers = if you have all ranger heroes reduce the threat of each hero by 1). Which could be a way of making themed decks more competitive.

Of course the Noldor one is going to be ridiculous if you make it because of Spirit Glorfindel and that's the issue I have with him. He and Dain really are massive outlier on the hero power curve.

The fact that you want more good heroes with low costs (even if they can't work together) would compound the problem I feel - yes you would make it so not everyone runs spirit Glorfindel, but only because they want to pick other super tier heroes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that you want more good heroes with low costs (even if they can't work together) would compound the problem I feel - yes you would make it so not everyone runs spirit Glorfindel, but only because they want to pick other super tier heroes.

Really my main issue is that you can't combine 3 good heroes without threat toping 30. A deck with 2 nobodies in the lotr universe Idraen and Beravor along with Aragorn, and I have a starting threat 33!

Also, if I want to make a deck that includes some of the most iconic heroes in the game Gandalf, Elrond, and Aragorn. I'll be at threat 37! So even though I'm using some of the most powerful heroes in middle- earth i'd be at such a disadvantage losing the game is inevitable. They probably can't even beat a hill troll.

Also many theme deck based on trait struggle because of the hight threat heroes, can't be combined well. Rohan, Gondor, Dunedain etc. Trying to mix and match heroes that have a chance to survive, always brings the deck around 30 or more. Theodin, eomer, eowyn at threat 31. It's no wonder there are no really good rohan themed decks. Most decks use Merry at 6 threat, or resort to using Glorfindel, or just play medicore high threat decks with frustrating results.

Even a 1 pt threat reduction from the norm makes a big difference. Bifur often goes under the radar. His stats add up to 8, but he is 7 threat. When looking at lore heroes he floats to the top when building decks, because of that 7 threat combined with an ability that bends the rules of deck building significantly. So, in many ways in the right type of deck he is also super powerful. With an ability like that you think they would have put him at 9 threat, 1 more than his stat value like Bilbo and Grima, but they went the other direction and made a great versatile "glue" hero for many deck. At 9 threat he would mostly be a dust collector.

So, really all i'm calling for are more heroes like Bifur. Since heroes like that are enough to give the players a slight advantage in threat, while providing deck building options with many of the high threat heroes that are difficult to play together.

Edited by Tracker1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that glorfindel's importance is reduced in multiplayer. I only play two player and find Beregond to be far more indepensible. First turn gondorian shield and unexpected courage will solve most of your problems.

Yes, Beregond/ gondorian shield is extremely powerful if not broken. Thing is he does not fit in every solo deck, and other then defending he does not do much else, but he basically neutralizes a very challenging part of the game. However, i never hear of players banning him, talk is usually how he can defend for each player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...