Question about the app and the license

[abbottj83 3]

So, the one major concern I've heard some of my friends voice about this and have not seen an answer for yet is this: What happens to the app/game once the license expires?

Standard assumption would be that the online content associated with a licensed product would have to be taken down once the license expires. Will the game become unplayable in a couple of years?

Really excited about it, but this is causing concern and would love to hear some official word on it.

[Robin Graves 6,054]

I'd like to know to.

Odd how we can still play 3000 year old board games but we can't play videogames from the 80-90s without using an emulator or tracking down an old tv.

[theonelawler 2]

i would guess the same that will happen with all the rules FFG that they are hosting on the web site. i have not seen any rules removed from the web site even for the oldest of their games  so may be something in the licance that allows them to keep hosting the files would seen like an easy thing to add.

[Fnoffen 96]

They did remove their Warcraft-related stuff after that license expired I think. Hopefully that won't be the case here.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Fnoffen

[Fulminata 0]

This is my big concern.

 

I am not against apps being used with board games. I think it's a great idea if well implemented. My concern is that because this is a licensed boardgame that the app will disappear with the license. I've seen it happen before for licensed games where all online support was taken down with the end of the license, and if that were to happen with this game it would apparently make the game unplayable after that point.

 

I'm not talking about some hypothetical point some 10 or 20 years in the future either. Sometimes these licenses don't last longer than a year or two.

[Slothgodfather 270]

It will be a downloadable app, so even if they don't support it in this hypothetical future, you could still have it installed on your machine.  Also, being an app, I highly doubt this won't get cracked and have modded versions available rather quickly anyways.  Even if you have to start with a new machine, you are likely going to be able to find access to the app somewhere.  Or just keep the install file on your computer.  no big deal.

[Steve-O 473]

They did remove their Warcraft-related stuff after that license expired I think. Hopefully that won't be the case here.

They took down the forum and catalog pages, but the content is still there if you google it.

"fantasyflightgames.com + World of Warcraft + rules" presented me with this link:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/WoWBG/wowrules.pdf

which still appears to be live.

I suspect they took down the front pages since they no longer had any plans to support the game - had it been for legal reasons, I rather suspect they would have deleted the files.

Also, other old games which are no longer licensed (like DooM and Starcraft) still live on in the forum archives.

 

I'd like to know to.

Odd how we can still play 3000 year old board games but we can't play videogames from the 80-90s without using an emulator or tracking down an old tv.

Not really that odd. The world has changed more drastically and more rapidly within the last 200 years than in the 2000 years before that. The pyramids are still standing after several thousand years (albiet crumbling,) while most buildings going up today wouldn't last 50 years without regular maintenance. Board games are not the only thing that have fallen prey to the less durable mentalities of the industrialized world, they're just the thing that this website is dedicated to.

As for older video games, we have a working original NES hooked up to our TV downstairs. We've even used it within the last couple of years. The TV is a flat screen HDMI fancy-pants unit from this decade (I think we bought it in 2011.) I don't recall buying any special wires or doodads to make this happen, either. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Steve-O

[Fulminata 0]

It will be a downloadable app, so even if they don't support it in this hypothetical future, you could still have it installed on your machine.  Also, being an app, I highly doubt this won't get cracked and have modded versions available rather quickly anyways.  Even if you have to start with a new machine, you are likely going to be able to find access to the app somewhere.  Or just keep the install file on your computer.  no big deal.

Last I checked, it will be a mobile app and a web based app. Web based apps are, by definition, not generally downloadable. Mobile apps are very easy to lose. Lose your phone, upgrade your phone, or have your phone damaged. All of those things can lead to the loss of an app if it's no longer available in the app store. 

 

These aren't theoretical situations either. They're things that happen to people everyday. 

[Slothgodfather 270]

I could be wrong, but I got the impression that it would be available on PC without the need of internet access, which is why I said it was downloadable.  I could have misunderstood though.   Regardless, I feel that FFG is going to find more than enough people who are willing to take the "risk" and will purchase this game.  

Edited September 19, 2014 by Slothgodfather

[Robin Graves 6,054]

My local gamestore will not carry this game. The owner stocked Golem Aracna two weeks ago, the week after it was already in the clearance rack with a 25% off sticker- soley because it requires a tablet (he apearantly didn't know the tablet was mandatory). He also mentioned that in order to sell electronics his store would need a(n other) diffrent licence.

 

So unless i specifically order xcom, he won't stock it (and even if i order it it's a bit doubtfull).

 

Guess ill have to go with Level 7 Invasion. Even tough that game has like 25 phases per turn and requires a lot of space.

[Xraysteve 28]

I think Golem Arcana is a different game for a different audience and would be regardless of the tablet requirement.

 

I would think Xcom would have a broader reach, audience-wise.

 

Kinda like the difference between Warhammer and Pandemic.

[Slothgodfather 270]

I saw that game at GenCon actually, and while an interesting concept, for me, I don't see the appeal of that interaction. But then again, I'm not that into miniatures games anyways.  Which is why I agree with Xraysteve; Trying to compare those two games just because they have some type of electronic tie in is a bit of stretch.  

 

I'm just curious though, why would it even matter if your local store was going to carry it or not?  If they won't carry it you won't buy it?   

[Robin Graves 6,054]

I think it's intresting that a store that carries all sorts of (non electronic) games (inc CCG, LCG, RPG and LARP stuff) won't stock a boardgame becaues it requires aps/tablets. Ok this is one store, but what if more stores feel that way? Or what if it's true taht you need a seperate licence to sell electronics (any shopkeeps out there that might shed soem light on this?)

 

Not sure yet if i'll buy it, but doesn't seem likely at the moment since i don't have an smart device that can run the ap (besides this pc, but thats besides the point) and it is up against another humans vs aliens game... without mandatory apps.

[theonelawler 2]

I think it's intresting that a store that carries all sorts of (non electronic) games (inc CCG, LCG, RPG and LARP stuff) won't stock a boardgame becaues it requires aps/tablets. Ok this is one store, but what if more stores feel that way? Or what if it's true taht you need a seperate licence to sell electronics (any shopkeeps out there that might shed soem light on this?)

 

Not sure yet if i'll buy it, but doesn't seem likely at the moment since i don't have an smart device that can run the ap (besides this pc, but thats besides the point) and it is up against another humans vs aliens game... without mandatory apps.

 

i cant see why you would need a license for electronics to stock and sell this game as it doesn't come with anything electronic at all in the box.

 

as for Golem Arcana its more table wargamming then a board game and apps/computers are nothing new to them and there seems to be fan made one for most that dont can with apps already

Edited September 28, 2014 by theonelawler

[Steve-O 473]

I think it's intresting that a store that carries all sorts of (non electronic) games (inc CCG, LCG, RPG and LARP stuff) won't stock a boardgame becaues it requires aps/tablets. Ok this is one store, but what if more stores feel that way?

The market will speak. If the game doesn't sell well enough, it will die quickly. This is true regardless of whether or not physical stores stock the game, although if a significant number of stores refuse to stock it, that would certainly impact the result. How much is hard to say; people who really want the game can still order it online.

 

Or what if it's true taht you need a seperate licence to sell electronics (any shopkeeps out there that might shed soem light on this?)

I'm no shopkeep, but that smells like bull to me. If he needed a separate license to sell anything that required an app then he would've been breaking the law by continuing to sell Golem Arcana (even at a discount) rather than returning it to his distributor.

Perhaps what he meant was that he'd need to pay extra fees to stock brand name electronics like iPhones and Android devices. I'm quite sure that's true, although I don't see why it's necessary to start selling iPhones in your gaming store just because some new board game requires an app. Still, it's his store so it's his choice, I guess.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Steve-O

[rmsgrey 22]

Here in the UK (and elsewhere in Europe) the WEEE directive makes the producer and distributors of electronic devices legally responsible for providing for their recycling. So, under EU law, selling a tablet or other device would require additional paperwork to establish that you offer suitable disposal options.

 

I don't know whether there's anything similar in the US or other countries.

[Bleached Lizard 31]

Here in the UK (and elsewhere in Europe) the WEEE directive makes the producer and distributors of electronic devices legally responsible for providing for their recycling. So, under EU law, selling a tablet or other device would require additional paperwork to establish that you offer suitable disposal options.

 

I don't know whether there's anything similar in the US or other countries.

 

But that still doesn't answer the question of why a board game store owner feels like in order to sell XCOM he would also need to sell tablets.

 

Does he also sell tables?

[Fnoffen 96]

Possibly because he wants to provide games that are immediately playable when you get them home and open them. It is, imo, quite safe to assume that everyone has at least one table but not that everyone has a smartphone, tablet or even a computer with internet connection. The latter people might well feel cheated if they buy the game without knowing you need an app. And who would get the complaints? The company that made it? Hardly. The idiot guy who sold them the crap? Most likely.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Fnoffen

[Xraysteve 28]

While we haven't seen box-art yet, I'm pretty confident that, apps being outside of the norm for boardgames, FFG will emblazen the "DOWNLOADABLE APP REQUIRED" label on the front and back of the box.  If people can't read that or ignore it...that's their own fault.

 

And if the owner wanted to make doubly sure they knew about, they could easily say 'this requires an app' before ringing them up.

[Bleached Lizard 31]

While we haven't seen box-art yet, I'm pretty confident that, apps being outside of the norm for boardgames, FFG will emblazen the "DOWNLOADABLE APP REQUIRED" label on the front and back of the box.  If people can't read that or ignore it...that's their own fault.

 

And if the owner wanted to make doubly sure they knew about, they could easily say 'this requires an app' before ringing them up.

 

You can see the box art here:

 

http://boardgamegeek.com/image/2247621/xcom-board-game

 

The warning of the app requirement is in the bottom-left corner.

[Slothgodfather 270]

From what I recall, I'm pretty sure it's got a similar warning on the back as well