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Crystal Geyser

Statting Abaddon (and other notable characters)

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Consider it a beta-testing experiment: I am currently attempting to generate statistics for Abaddon and other notable characters from the 40k universe. I'm looking for feedback, ideas, and ways to make the NPC profile as accurate as possible. Here is my starting rough draft:

 

ABADDON THE DESPOILER

WS 89

BS 54

S (14) 86

T (10) 65

Ag 52

Int 79

Per 54

WP (10) 97

Fel (8) 74

Inf 150

Infamy Points: 15

Movement: 5/10/15/30

Wounds: 60

Skills: Athletics, Awareness +20, Charm +30, Command +30, Commerce, Common Lore (Imperium, Imperial Guard, Imperial Navy), Common Lore (War)+30, Deceive +30, Forbidden Lore (Adeptus Astartes, Demonology, Heresy, Horus Heresy and the Long War, Warp) +30, Inquiry +20, Interrogation, Intimidate +30, Linguistics (High Gothic, Low Gothic, Astartes Ciphers, Black Legion Ciphers, Personal Ciphers), Logic, Navigate (Surface), Operate (Surface), Operate (Voidship), Parry +30, Scholastic Lore (Heraldry, Legend, Occult, Tactica Imperialis) +30, Scrutiny, Security.

Talents: Air of Authority, Ambidextrous, Ancient Warrior, Bastion of Iron Will, Bolter Drill, Bulging Biceps, Cold Hearted, Combat Formation, Combat Master, Counter Attack, Crippling Strike, Crushing Blow, Demagogue, Die Hard, Disarm, Disturbing Voice, Enemy (All), Excessive Wealth, Fearless, Foresight, Furious Assault, Hardy, Hammer Blow, Hatred (Imperium), Heightened Senses (All), Inspire Wrath, Into the Jaws of Hell, Iron Discipline, Iron Jaw, Jaded, Killing Strike, Lightning Attack, Legion Weapon Training, Lightning Reflexes, Mastery (Command, Tactica), Nerves of Steel, Never Die, Orthopraxy, Paranoia, Peer (Black Legion, Chaos Space Marines), Pity the Weak, Precise Blow, Radiant Presence, Resistance (All), Strong Minded, Storm of Iron, Sure Strike, Swift Attack, Takedown, Thunder Charge, True Girt, Two-Weapon Wielder (All), Unarmed Master, Unarmed Warrior, Unshakeable Will, War Cry, Whirlwind of Death, Wisdom of the Ancients.

Traits: All Astartes Traits.

Gifts of the Gods: Mark of Chaos Ascendant. This functions as the Mark of every Chaos God. This conveys the Heightened Senses (All), Unnatural Fellowship (2), Stuff of Nightmares, Unnatural Toughness (1), Resistance (Psychic Powers), Brutal Charge, Unnatural Strength (+2), and Unnatural Willpower (1) Traits. These effects are included in his profile.

Weapons: Drach’Nyen, the Talon of Horus

Drach’Nyen: 2d10+7, Pen 7, Power Field, Balanced, Felling (4), Fear +1, Force Field 90, Tearing, Proven (2), Warp Weapon, +9 Critical Damage, deals 1d10 Toughness Damage, Crippling (9).

Drach’Nyen is a Best-Craftsmanship Legion Power Sword that is also a Daemon Weapon. It possesses every Unaligned Daemon Weapon attribute, a Binding Strength of 0, and a Willpower Characteristic of 90.

The Talon of Horus: The Talon of Horus is a Best-Craftsmanship Legion Lightning Claw incorporating a Best-Craftsmanship twin-linked Legion Bolter. Bolter Rounds fired by the Talon of Horus count as both haywire grenades and as best-quality choke gas, in addition to being Toxic (for those of you wondering, this is how it works in the Night Lords series).

Lightning Claw: 1d10+15, Pen 16, Power Field, Proven (4). It deals an extra point of damage for every Degree of Success on the attack roll.

Bolter: Basic, 100m, S/4/-, 1d10+18 X, Pen 13, Toxic, Haywire, Reliable, Twin-linked.

The Talon of Horus is also a Legacy Weapon with the Legacy of Hate, and the following Legacy Weapon Traits: Adaptable, Instinctive, Unassailable, and Unholy Union.

Armor: Best-Craftsmanship Terminator Armor (16 all) with Chain Loingaurds, Deviotional Icongoraphy (Unaligned), and Armor of the Black Legion. It possesses a best-craftsmanship Infernal Star force field. All sub-systems are fully functional. Strength bonus included in profile.

 

And an optional Upgrade, for the humor:

Gear: Two best-craftmsnahip bionic arms 

Edited by Crystal Geyser
Talon of Anathrax and filliman like this

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That's actually almost exactly how I statted him for the climax of my long running, epicly huge Rogue Trader game, where a Living Saint hacked his arms off on the steps of the Golden Throne. 

 

That was a fun game. 

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If you intend to use him as an NPC, I'd at least include a second damage line that factors it in. His Strength Bonus and Infamy bonus would give him something like a +22, not counting any other modifiers. Also, he is almost always guarded by a sworn squad of Chosen Terminators.

Edited by Elurindel

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Sounds about right, though Drach'nyen should have a binding strength of at least 1, since BS 0 would mean it could just fly out of the sword at will.

Edited by Yozzy

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Question, why does Abaddon have better base Willpower and bonus than a Lord of Change (81) as well as more augmented Strength than a Bloodthirster (75)? 

 

These are supposed to be the finest of Tzeentch and Khorne respectively, the pinnacle of their wrath and ingenuity and yet Abaddon is just a mortal who can theoretically outclass them both in a straight numbers game. He is not a daemon prince and is still human and should have stats accordingly. In a straight test of Strength Abaddon has the better chance of success (which is why I hate terminator +30 Str) than the Bloodthirster but if the Thirster does win then yes his higher DoS would give him the edge but even so, the numbers are perhaps a little odd on the face of things.

 

His WP is still too high though, he is not that strong in mental capabilities and fortitude compared to one who manipulates fate and destiny on a daily basis. 97 is ridiculously high if you ask me unless theres a ton of gear altering it. Cut it down to maybe 60's.

 

Also, being slightly picky but I dont think he should have "Enemy (All)" otherwise he wouldn't be able to lead a black crusade as everyone would hate him and nobody would ally with him. Recommend changing it to "Enemy (Imperium)".

Edited by Calgor Grim

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Not really - I knew that I hadn't added it in, but didn't really think it was necessary. Do you advise it?

Official statlines and profiles always factors Strength Bonus and similar into the final statline for the weapons used.

Let's say that a listed NPC has a Strength of 40 and is using a 1d10 Sword. On his listed profile, the damage of that sword will show as 1d10+4.

This is not always true, however, and very often, NPC's in official supplements end up having very wonky profiles in regards to existing listed weapons, but the general policy seems to be to do it that way.

For simplicity's sake, I advice sticking to that.

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FFG is far from perfect when it comes to proof-reading, but their official characters usually have their Strength bonuses factored in.

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FFG is far from perfect when it comes to proof-reading, but their official characters usually have their Strength bonuses factored in.

It's sometimes very hard to tell. For example, there's a statline for Arbitrators in Hand of Corruption. They have a Strength Bonus of 40, and their Suppression Shields are listed as 1d10+3. This implies that the Suppression Shields are 1d10-1, but there's never been any shields like that listed in any 40kRP.

 

And don't get me started on the mess that is the statline Hellguns in the Broken Chains Adventure..

Edited by Fgdsfg

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You should have a special rule which states: "Even the slightest impact to his arms will cause them to fall off". (I keed, I keed...)

 

 

You should also change Scholastic Lore (Tactica Imperialis) from +30 to -5...

 

 

 

 

Okay, smartassery aside, for the most part he seems okay, but one of the problems with this game system is that, the more Talents you have, the harder and harder it gets to remember them all at any one time. As he's an NPC, I'd keep a copy of him as is (or as you refine him to be) using the official BC method, and then create a simplified copy where you consolidate all the special Talent rules down as much as possible into his stats (ie, instead of Crushing Blow, just add an extra two to his damage, etc), or just simplify him with some Tabletop numbers (ie, Swift Attack and Lightning Attack simply become Attacks: 3). As he isn't a legal character, he can have that luxury, and it'll make it easier to keep track of all his special abilities

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So as a BC gm that had a game go long enough for four of my six chaos marines turn into daemon princes. I have a few issues with his make up.

first is Abbodon is suppose to be counted as align to all of the chaos gods. which would be he benefits from all of them making him a pysker. 

Also one bad idea is to have players think they could beat a chaos marine, who is suppose to be Horus's favorite which would make almost un-killable with just that notion. If you are actually going to use him you have to make him so much more powerful since looking at the stat line there. my own PC Mortem would one shot him in the first round of combat.

 

Sorry little rant there. before making a stat line for someone like Abbodon try reading some of the Horus heresy books and read about horus, then just make Abbodon a step below him. And for a last pit of clarification on how powerfully my players and my pc got. In a moc up battle it took three blood thirsters to kill my entire party.

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It is a question of mentality: How much agency would you want your players to have?

 

Perhaps they really are powerful enough that they could kill Abaddon. A Pen & Paper game is not a movie with a preset storyline (or rather, it shouldn't be) -- instead, and this goes for games like Black Crusade (or Rogue Trader) in particular, they are driven by the players' intentions and ideas, and the onus of deciding how to interact with the world is on them. The GM's task, in addition to coming up with interesting adventures, is to have the world react to their actions in a tangible, realistic manner.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a fancy name shouldn't be a "get out of jail free" card for NPCs. If a powerful leader presents him- or herself open to attacks and backstabbing due to not having taken sensible precautions such as loyal bodyguards, then that's the way it's going to be. Utilising insane stats far beyond what the characters themselves could achieve if they would follow in the same footsteps is no better than not statting such characters and all, and just going with "rocks fall, everyone dies" instead. It'd would save everyone involved a lot of time.

 

But this is just personal opinion, of course. I guess it simply comes down to preferences in terms of setting portrayal, meaning the difference between portraying a living, breathing world that changes depending on the players' every action, or whether you'd prefer a fairytale of legends and heroes, with a cast of "main actors" who somehow are unkillable because they're deemed too important for the setting, and where your players will forever be scrubs because they don't bear GW's seal of approval and are thus banned from joining the ranks of, or even replacing the aforementioned main actors in their functions.

 

On a sidenote, the tabletop already had stats for Abbadon, and even for Angron. They were more than a step above the rest, of course, but ultimately far from the immortal deities some people seem to paint them as.

 

Sorry little rant there. before making a stat line for someone like Abbodon try reading some of the Horus heresy books and read about horus, then just make Abbodon a step below him.

 

In my opinion, those novels in particular are a terrible source for any sensible portrayal of powerful characters. Personally, I'm drawing the line far before stuff like heroes being strong enough to lift a Titan(!) or brushing off a direct impact of capital-class plasma artillery.

 

But again, that's just a matter of preferences. Myself, I prefer GW's own material, and in the Index Astartes, Horus was nearly gunned down by a nameless human scrub with a plasma gun if the Emperor hadn't saved him (which Horus later repaid by taking care of an Ork who almost killed the Emperor. An Ork!)

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So as a BC gm that had a game go long enough for four of my six chaos marines turn into daemon princes. I have a few issues with his make up.

first is Abbodon is suppose to be counted as align to all of the chaos gods. which would be he benefits from all of them making him a pysker. 

 

Abaddon is not a psyker at all and therefore does not benefit nor suffer from any condition which would affect a psyker. Despite obtaining the Mark of Tzeentch which in the RPG system would make him a psyker, he got a different blessing with the mark itself. On the tabletop the Tzeentch mark contributes to his invulnerable save and grants him a 4+ Invun save. He has obtained marks of each chaos patron and melded them into his own named the Mark of Chaos Ascendant. Therefore it effectively should manifest as a resistance to psychic techniques rather than him getting any of his own.

 

 

In my opinion, those novels in particular are a terrible source for any sensible portrayal of powerful characters. Personally, I'm drawing the line far before stuff like heroes being strong enough to lift a Titan(!) or brushing off a direct impact of capital-class plasma artillery.

 

But again, that's just a matter of preferences. Myself, I prefer GW's own material, and in the Index Astartes, Horus was nearly gunned down by a nameless human scrub with a plasma gun if the Emperor hadn't saved him (which Horus later repaid by taking care of an Ork who almost killed the Emperor. An Ork!)

 

Also, say what you like about the major characters but I don't think even Abaddon can be immune to being stamped on by an Emperor Class Titan at several thousand metric tonnes or being struck in the face by a Strength D Rail Gun from a Tau Aircraft. He, like all significant characters just knows how to position himself to avoid that happening or is always able to withdraw from the field before it gets to that stage.

Edited by Calgor Grim
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Also one bad idea is to have players think they could beat a chaos marine, who is suppose to be Horus's favorite which would make almost un-killable with just that notion. If you are actually going to use him you have to make him so much more powerful since looking at the stat line there. my own PC Mortem would one shot him in the first round of combat.

 

How the hell can you one shot a guy that has 90% of ignoring the attack and is having -10 TB and 16 Armour while having 60 wounds?

 

With a tank? Even a battle canon can't, and this is taking into account that the powerfield won't work.

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Also one bad idea is to have players think they could beat a chaos marine, who is suppose to be Horus's favorite which would make almost un-killable with just that notion. If you are actually going to use him you have to make him so much more powerful since looking at the stat line there. my own PC Mortem would one shot him in the first round of combat.

How the hell can you one shot a guy that has 90% of ignoring the attack and is having -10 TB and 16 Armour while having 60 wounds?

With a tank? Even a battle canon can't, and this is taking into account that the powerfield won't work.

A decent force weapon hit. The damage inflicted from a force sword when channelled is 1d10 per degree on the opposed Willpower ignoring armour and toughness. Plus has already bypassed the field save. For all his might he can still be out WP'ed.

Also, Volcano Cannon from Only War? IIRC it's something like 3D10+lots, pen silly and gets six shots worth. That or Turbo Laser Destructor comes close.

Tau vehicle railgun is 3D10+30 pen lots. Roll all 10s and that's a lot of pain

Edited by Calgor Grim
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Well, that's what I said: otherwise than with a tank and such, not a thing.

 

The only viable option is the force weapon, which will be fairly negated by abaddon's willpower. And for it to be used, the force field must not work, which is not a win.

 

And even with your super weapons, there is still the über forcefield. 90% of soaking your volcano canon, is a lot better than the chance of a guardsman surviving lasbolts.

 

 

And you call this weak?

And remember that Abaddon is intelligent enough and powerful enough to get this titan or tank dropped before it gets a good view on him to shoot.

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The WP stats that are placed here for Abaddon are arguably too high which is why a force weapon is still viable. Those stats outdo Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons and this is why his numbers are terrible and therefore I would readjust them and force weapons are still viable.

Edited by Calgor Grim

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Those stats outdo Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons and this is why his numbers are terrible and therefore I would readjust them and force weapons are still viable.

 

 

No they ain't. There 90% chance that the attack is just ignored.

 

 

 

I dunno, if Horus can get gunned down by a plasma trooper, how much tougher or smarter or stronger would Abaddon be?

 

10 000 years of experience more tougher, smarter and stronger? :P

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