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peterstepon

Assassins, Sisters of Battle, and Deathwatch Space Marines

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I read somewhere that the Inquisitor will be able to summon Assassins, Sisters of Battle, and Deathwatch Space Marines, probably when things really get down and dirty.  I got the impression that the players can switch between playing the Inquisitor and his flunkies.  

 

Can we expect to see stats for Assassins, Sisters of Battle, and Deathwatch Space Marines in the book coming out?

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Kinda. There are rules for Sisters, Deathwatch Marines, GKs and such as side characters that come along on bigger missions. The rulebook refers to them as "Reinforcement Characters", and to gain their services you are required to have not only a minimum amount of Infulence, but you spend Influence to obtain them. Obviously there's more to it than that, but it allows for a few higher level characters to join in every now and again, where appropriate.

 

BYE

Edited by H.B.M.C.

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given the direction that they have taken with the character creation i'm not entirely sure whether they should start introducing explicit character options such as the grey knights or sisters of battle.

Isn't the whole point of being able to pick, for example, Shrine World - Warrior essentially how you create a Sister of Battle? Making that an explicit option, later on, seems self defeating given that.

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I doubt they'll ever introduce a full sister Role, but I would like to see an Ecclesiarchy book, which would include a Schola home world, and a faith talent elite advance. Then it'd be simple to make a Sister, or any other devout character

Edited by Felenis

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Reinforcement characters essentially allow you to burn a little influence to yell "Help!" and have someone come and assist you.

 

It essentially lets you build a character using the rules up to whatever influence/XP level you like (but obviously, the more awesome they are, the more expensive they'll be to call in).

 

It's especially useful to provide substitute bodies for players who are currently injured (as it suggests) or to allow an investigation-focused team of acolytes to substitute themselves out for a Militarum Tempestus stormtrooper squad to kick the door in once they've actually located the heretics.

 

There are four pre-generated reinforcement characters, but in each case they are characters you could not build using the rules in the rest of the rulebook - Deathwatch and Grey Knight marines use unique weapons, armour and psychic powers, they and the Eversor Assassin have unnatural characteristics, and the Canonness - whilst nominally 'normal' - has her power of faith abilities which, if less "sparkly holy magic" than previously, are still much better than anything you can get without being one.

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less "sparkly holy magic" than previously

 

Personally, I would like to hope for a less flashy interpretation of Acts of Faith - something closer to the original Codex fluff, or the Inquisitor's Handbook. But I'm kind of sceptical as FFG simply seemed to pursue a different idea in the past.

Still, I'd love to be proven wrong: how exactly are AoF "less sparkly holy magic" this time around?

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Well there's less of them on the reinforcement chart. There aren't greater effects for burning. Effects seem more dependent on the enemies corruption or daemons (not sure how this compares to Acts of Faith). Some powers affect up to FB allies however, and one has her glowing in radiance.

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glowing in radiance

 

Eugh.

 

Okay, thanks for the clarification!

 

 

Glowing in radiance, wreathed in hellish warpflame... what's the difference? :)

 

 

None.

 

That's the problem. As far as I'm concerned, a sister that suddenly starts glowing in radiance would be shot by her peers.

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None.

 

That's the problem. As far as I'm concerned, a sister that suddenly starts glowing in radiance would be shot by her peers.

 

 

 

Yeah they'd have a hard time convincing me that they were channeling the Emperor over any other malign force, even if they were a SoB.

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Well, I guess it could simply be interpreted as a miracle in either way. Given that those characters (and the average Imperial citizen) are indoctrinated into thinking that yes, the Emperor actually is a god, and that He on Earth guides their actions and can intervene on their behalf, it stands to reason they could misinterpret even real Warp sorcery as divine intervention, all depending on who it's being used on and how it looks like. Not to mention FFG's version of Acts of Faith, which are uniformly described as "golden" etc.

 

holy.png

 

But that's part of what makes fanaticism as an element in 40k so cool - it's a double-edged sword that can just as well be used to disguise sinister plots behind a veil of piousness, abusing the devotion of the masses to further the aspirations of Chaos.

 

"Never judge a book by its cover!" -- "You are so right..."

-- Ephrael Stern and Slaanesh-corrupted Cardinal Seraiah, before attacking each other

 

It's also for this reason why Celestine from the tabletop was dragged into an Inquisitorial and Ecclesiarchal examination instantly after supposedly manifesting her powers, instead of just rubber-stamping her a Saint.

 

Anyways, what I personally have an issue with is that ...

  • It's less grimdark, as it declares the teachings of the Ecclesiarchy to be correct and justified, and Acts of Faith to be true miracles instead of a product of personal prowess, coincidence, and mere superstition of witnesses. Ambiguity ftw! 
  • It makes the Space Marines look like fools for still not believing that the Emperor is a god. Now it's like standing in bright daylight and saying "nu-uh, it's darkest night".
  • The Sororitas, in turn, are made to look less badass, as now it's no longer based on their individual training and willpower, but simple space magic.
  • And to expand on the above, if FFG sticks to what they begun in BoM, Acts of Faith are no longer something unique to the extreme lifestyle of the Sisterhood, but can be picked up by any random Guardsman etc practically overnight, circumstances permitting. Without the interaction-based penalties that would (should) come with playing a Sororitas.
  • Lastly, it throws up the question of why only the Imperial faith features this divine magic. Certainly, there are numerous alien or even non-Imperial faiths out there that would have to allow their followers to make use of non-Warp-based divine intervention? FFG really opened up a can of worms here.

For these reasons - and because I generally prefer a more "down to earth" interpretation of the setting, with more science and less fantasy than other visions of the 41st millennium - personally I'll continue to follow what has been printed in the original codex fluff.

Fortunately, pen&paper RPGs allow us to houserule things we can't stand.

Edited by Lynata

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If I were to explain it I'd say it's a very minor and controlled warp manifestation controlled through the Sororitas' incredibly strict and monastic lifestyle. They're so faithful they channel warp very subtly and this is allowed by the Ecclarisy and explained (to the masses) as the stuff of miracles.

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If I were to explain it I'd say it's a very minor and controlled warp manifestation controlled through the Sororitas' incredibly strict and monastic lifestyle. They're so faithful they channel warp very subtly and this is allowed by the Ecclarisy and explained (to the masses) as the stuff of miracles.

 

*nods* This would at least keep it in line with the cosmology presented in this RPG's books so far. And I admit this would even give it another kind of grimdark spin.

 

That said, it would still go against one of the core teachings of the Ecclesiarchy, and turn an aspect of the Sororitas around 180°. I mean, this is an army that's said to be inherently more resistant against psychic phenomena - so much so that their 3E rules even deflected beneficial effects from allied units, just because the Sisters' spirits intuitively rejected these energies.

Additionally, it stands to reason they would become more vulnerable against corruption and daemonic influence, simply on the basis of every single one of them being a "mini-psyker" with a more "exposed" soul. The monastic lifestyle might allow them to increase their defences, but they would still gain a lot more attention.

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I don't see why it goes against anything. They're still resistant to normal psychic powers as their own manifestations don't generate phenomena because of the deep ingrained training and faith they've received. Sure they're souls are more exposed, but they're SoB they're used to dealing with that stuff and telling it to go toss off. They aren't Brides of the Emperor for nothing.

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I don't see why it goes against anything.

 

In regards to the teachings of the Ecclesiarchy? The Imperial Cult - at least in the original studio material - fosters a deep-seated distrust against psychic abilities of any kind, interpreting the psyker gene as a mutation (which, ironically, is somewhat true, in that it represents mankind's next step on the evolutionary ladder) and thus often rousing the populace to go on witch-hunts.

 

To reflect this, GW's own d100 Inquisitor game had a rule that flat-out said that no member of the Ministorum will have psychic powers.

 

Another problem could be that the interpretation of Acts of Faith as a subset of psychic powers should also subject them to the appropriate rules, such as technology or rituals that strengthen or deny their use, not to mention the Psyniscience ability.

 

I *could* see the game (or you as a GM in your games) making an attempt to explain them as psychic phenomena, but in that case it should be consequent about it. This also applies to certain Tech-Priest abilities, of course (unless we really are to take the "machine spirit" mumbo-jumbo literally, but in that case this would have to be brought in line as well).

Edited by Lynata

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I don't see why it goes against anything. They're still resistant to normal psychic powers as their own manifestations don't generate phenomena because of the deep ingrained training and faith they've received. Sure they're souls are more exposed, but they're SoB they're used to dealing with that stuff and telling it to go toss off. They aren't Brides of the Emperor for nothing.

Now, the issue I see here is that this suggests that the "deep ingrained training and faith" that the Sororitas have received is somehow greater than that of, say, an Astropath, or Sanctioned Psykers.

Sanctioned Psykers become more or less brainwashed, and have physical limiters built into their heads to avoid them going bananas.

Astropaths have their souls bound to the greatest human psyker to ever grace the universe, worshipped by countless billions and reinforced by the death of thousands of additional psykers every day (om nom nom nom). Like psykers, they also receive years of training to handle their powers.

Just to put things into perspective.

Meanwhile, while yes, disciplined and with a deep, ingrained training, Sororitas receive absolutely zero training in regards to how to handle the floods and eddies of the warp.

Yet the first two still cause the warp to spill over into realspace, while the latter is at worst bathed in the radiant light of the God-Emperor's mercy, going by FFG interpretation.

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I don't see why it goes against anything.

 

 

I *could* see the game (or you as a GM in your games) making an attempt to explain them as psychic phenomena, but in that case it should be consequent about it. This also applies to certain Tech-Priest abilities, of course (unless we really are to take the "machine spirit" mumbo-jumbo literally, but in that case this would have to be brought in line as well).

 

Fair point, what's your opinion on the Radical's Witch Sight background?

 

 

 

I don't see why it goes against anything. They're still resistant to normal psychic powers as their own manifestations don't generate phenomena because of the deep ingrained training and faith they've received. Sure they're souls are more exposed, but they're SoB they're used to dealing with that stuff and telling it to go toss off. They aren't Brides of the Emperor for nothing.

Yet the first two still cause the warp to spill over into realspace, while the latter is at worst bathed in the radiant light of the God-Emperor's mercy, going by FFG interpretation.

 

Another valid and fair point. I'd personally try and port over the rules from the IH myself.

 

Perhaps the abilities are specific to the Calaxis/Askellon sector?

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Fair point, what's your opinion on the Radical's Witch Sight background?

 

Hmm, I'd interpret it as a sort of "sixth sense" where the user just happens to have a gut feeling concerning someone elses true nature. The character would possess a good insight into human nature - so good that they can spend a Fate Point to make sure their feeling is on the mark.

 

It could be mere empathy .. or, alternatively, representing the innate proximity to the psyker gene that almost all humans are born with. If mankind as a whole is one step away from becoming a species of psykers, it stands to reason that you'll end up with a lot of "in-betweens", where you have a stronger subconscious connection to the souls around you - without actually being able to tap into the Immaterium to transform thought and emotion into actual manifestations.

 

The Radical's Handbook also has an advanced career where someone "retroactively" turns into a psyker even though they weren't born with sufficient potential to manifest powers. But much like with Witch Sight, I would probably limit such options to characters who never were subjected to an in-depth genetical purity examination, such as the one at the Schola Progenium - excepting some crass event where an individual is effectively "transformed" due to exposure to the Warp - such as happened to Ephrael Stern, who seems to have been the template for the "Denounced and Condemned" option (my beef with this one is that unique exceptions in the setting should not become a "serial production" background).

 

Another valid and fair point. I'd personally try and port over the rules from the IH myself.

 

Yeah, same. I liked the ones in IH as they were a lot less flashy, much like the Codex AoF, and thus retaining the ambiguity factor. To some it's a miracle, to others it's just skill and luck. Exactly like in real life.

 

Not sure if you've seen my take on Acts of Faith for a Deathwatch-level version of the Battle Sister class? The design philosophy there was pretty much to decouple this mechanic from Fate Points (thus not forcing players to give up other advantages just to use their unique abilities), as well as trading raw power for a more regular use (or at least attempts).

 

Perhaps the abilities are specific to the Calaxis/Askellon sector?

 

Heh, that almost sounds like a plot for an Inquisitorial investigation. ;)

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Not sure if you've seen my take on Acts of Faith for a Deathwatch-level version of the Battle Sister class? The design philosophy there was pretty much to decouple this mechanic from Fate Points (thus not forcing players to give up other advantages just to use their unique abilities), as well as trading raw power for a more regular use (or at least attempts).

 

Perhaps the abilities are specific to the Calaxis/Askellon sector?

 

Heh, that almost sounds like a plot for an Inquisitorial investigation. ;)

 

I haven't, but I'll check them out. You should port them to 2nd edition if you find the time.

 

As for Inquisitorial investigation, sounds like a Sororitas ran investigation that has the capability of drawing the ire of the ordo hereticus for any hiding and covering up of evidence.

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