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Robin Graves

One more thing about the app

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Many big companies , FFG included, do not produce errata for paper based games e.g. produce the game and then move on, luckily gamers have resources or consensus based answers etc. If there is a bug in the app what will happen. The contractor/progrmmers may have moved on. I have seen apps from major corporations fall into these traps. Read respnoses on google shop etc.

 

I am dissapointed they chose such an Iconic game for their hybrid game.

Time will tell.

 

strange i have not found any FFG games that dont have both an errata and faq for download under the support tab and i can only guess it would be the same for any app.

 

From the look of the game it seems like it would not be anything close to the same with out the app while i am sure they could have make an ok game just with cards it seems like the game will be great with the app doing alot more than cards ever could.

 

but only time will tell

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I was listing my reasons for not purchasing this game if the app is crucial. I know I am not alone.

You do not need to stray far from board gaming to see companies seeking opinion from their likely audience for new ideas and products. This one sort of snuck up on us.

I do not kid myself that I have any influence overr FFG apart from a count of 1 who will not be buying this game.

I wannted to make it clear and factual rather than emotional.

Many big companies , FFG included, do not produce errata for paper based games e.g. produce the game and then move on, luckily gamers have resources or consensus based answers etc. If there is a bug in the app what will happen. The contractor/progrmmers may have moved on. I have seen apps from major corporations fall into these traps. Read respnoses on google shop etc.

I am dissapointed they chose such an Iconic game for their hybrid game.

Time will tell.

 

 

So far a lot of what you've said doesn't seem very factual.

 

All I have seen most nay-sayers come up with is the whole 'I don't want to look at a screen (for whatever reason)' and 'it will be obselete in X years'.

One is really a personal preference that has no bearing on the game whatsoever, though, this is pretty flimsy for now as it looks like there is only one person who operates the app and the others do their job.  So you still have 3 quarters of the game to play that are (specifically) app-free.  (This could change based on the ruleset.) 

 

For this reason, I would suggest people try to find posts from those demoing the game at Gencon.  They will be able to shed more light on the actual function of the App (as well as if all players need to see it or just the one player).

 

The second thing is really more fortune-telling than anything since the game isn't launched and sales figures aren't available.  Sure, everyone is up-in-arms, saying they won't buy it because of the app; but really this happens with Call of Duty every time they release a new game.  FFG has a history of producing a boatload of expansions for many of it's games, I couldn't imagine them not supporting this game, but that's really just as much fortune-telling as saying it will be unplayable in 10 years.

 

I am dissapointed they chose such an Iconic game for their hybrid game.

Lastly, this statement is nothing but emotion. 

 

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I am dissapointed they chose such an Iconic game for their hybrid game.

Lastly, this statement is nothing but emotion. 

 

 

Ok, but you ARE aware that emotion influences purchasing decisions, and if the guy doesn't like the thing, he's not gonna buy it no matter how much you argue that his reasons for not liking it are wrong, right?

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I am dissapointed they chose such an Iconic game for their hybrid game.

Lastly, this statement is nothing but emotion. 

 

 

Ok, but you ARE aware that emotion influences purchasing decisions, and if the guy doesn't like the thing, he's not gonna buy it no matter how much you argue that his reasons for not liking it are wrong, right?

 

I'm not trying to change his mind.  Just trying to keep those reasons from getting too ingrained in those that are more 'on the fence'. 

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I was listing my reasons for not purchasing this game if the app is crucial. I know I am not alone.

You do not need to stray far from board gaming to see companies seeking opinion from their likely audience for new ideas and products. This one sort of snuck up on us.

I do not kid myself that I have any influence overr FFG apart from a count of 1 who will not be buying this game.

I wannted to make it clear and factual rather than emotional.

Many big companies , FFG included, do not produce errata for paper based games e.g. produce the game and then move on, luckily gamers have resources or consensus based answers etc. If there is a bug in the app what will happen. The contractor/progrmmers may have moved on. I have seen apps from major corporations fall into these traps. Read respnoses on google shop etc.

I am dissapointed they chose such an Iconic game for their hybrid game.

Time will tell.

So far a lot of what you've said doesn't seem very factual.

All I have seen most nay-sayers come up with is the whole 'I don't want to look at a screen (for whatever reason)' and 'it will be obselete in X years'.

One is really a personal preference that has no bearing on the game whatsoever, though, this is pretty flimsy for now as it looks like there is only one person who operates the app and the others do their job. So you still have 3 quarters of the game to play that are (specifically) app-free. (This could change based on the ruleset.)

For this reason, I would suggest people try to find posts from those demoing the game at Gencon. They will be able to shed more light on the actual function of the App (as well as if all players need to see it or just the one player).

The second thing is really more fortune-telling than anything since the game isn't launched and sales figures aren't available. Sure, everyone is up-in-arms, saying they won't buy it because of the app; but really this happens with Call of Duty every time they release a new game. FFG has a history of producing a boatload of expansions for many of it's games, I couldn't imagine them not supporting this game, but that's really just as much fortune-telling as saying it will be unplayable in 10 years.

I am dissapointed they chose such an Iconic game for their hybrid game.

Lastly, this statement is nothing but emotion.

I added the emotional comment to a subsequent post. The rest were facts even my preferences are facts. They just apply to me.I am not a nay Sayers. I have not criticised the game only the format and that I will not buy it. Edited by starman

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I see your point now.

There is no particular reason why anyone should like the app so you like the app for the sole reason of liking it.

Partially correct, however, I never said I liked/disliked the app. I don't know what all it does aside from determining some basic game movements. But I am seeing a lot of people hating it simply because it's an app.

At least the people who have some level of optimism about the app are willing to wait and demo the game or read a review or even one more article from FFG before throwing up their hands and saying "A mandatory app? I'm out!"

In the old days you could download a web site or section of it and replay it offline. I know I have some stored. I use an android tablet , about 3 years old , it works great. Many of my old files don't work and some new websites won't work. Browsers evolve, security patches , operating system changes. Its an uncertain world digitally. I accept that. I just don't want to buy a game that is reliant on hardware / software technology that will change over time (fact).

Will FFG invest in supporting it as technology changes, we will see. If they commit to that for say 10 years or even 5 years then it may change some ppeoples mind.

I have written and supported games software and even small things can be a nightmare, maybe inside knowledge has made me cynical but I have a right to my choices and hopefully to express them. This is a community and passing on concerns and warnings should not be an issue, this enables informed choice and risk assessment.

Buying a game and waiting 6 months plus for errata/faq (Arkham Horror) with community support is not to bad, though I prefer official support. The same for a broken app is likely to mean the game is unplayable.

Edited by starman

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I see your point now.

There is no particular reason why anyone should like the app so you like the app for the sole reason of liking it.

Partially correct, however, I never said I liked/disliked the app. I don't know what all it does aside from determining some basic game movements. But I am seeing a lot of people hating it simply because it's an app.

At least the people who have some level of optimism about the app are willing to wait and demo the game or read a review or even one more article from FFG before throwing up their hands and saying "A mandatory app? I'm out!"

In the old days you could download a web site or section of it and replay it offline. I know I have some stored. I use an android tablet , about 3 years old , it works great. Many of my old files don't work and some new websites won't work. Browsers evolve, security patches , operating system changes. Its an uncertain world digitally. I accept that. I just don't want to buy a game that is reliant on hardware / software technology that will change over time (fact).

WoW was released 10 years ago, back in Windows XP days and it currently works on Windows 8 and OSx (and I believe Linux, too, but I'm not sure).  In fact, there are a host of games for Sega Genisis that you can get on Steam....games that came out more than a decade ago. 

 

Yes, things change, but there is no reason to be all doom-and-gloom about it (yet, if ever).  Reviews should be looked at and sales figures will help determine the likelihood of future support. 

 

Will FFG invest in supporting it as technology changes, we will see. If they commit to that for say 10 years or even 5 years then it may change some ppeoples mind.

I'm sure they will support it for as long as it's profitable for them...like what most companies do.

 

I have written and supported games software and even small things can be a nightmare, maybe inside knowledge has made me cynical but I have a right to my choices and hopefully to express them. This is a community and passing on concerns and warnings should not be an issue, this enables informed choice and risk assessment.

By all means, voice your concerns and your opinions, but don't think that makes them immune to criticism.  As I have pointed out, so many of the complaints about the app are based on very little actual fact.

 

 

Buying a game and waiting 6 months plus for errata/faq (Arkham Horror) with community support is not to bad, though I prefer official support. The same for a broken app is likely to mean the game is unplayable.

The app could be broken...but I would imagine the people at Gencon would be saying so by now if it was unplayable.  It's not like FFG hasn't put out apps before.  They have three so far.  Two games and a dice app for Xwing.  All three have about 4.5 ratings on Google Play.  I own Elder Sign Omens, and haven't had a problem with it not loading, crashing, or otherwise not being able to play it and this is across the Galaxy S4 and the S5 (not a huge change, but a change nontheless). So FFG does have some idea what they are doing in the app department.  It may not be decades of experience in software development, but it is some experience.

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I'm really on the fence about getting this game and like many others, it the app that is making me think twice about it. I love the PC game and have clocked up more hours playing it than I care to admit. I really like the idea of a board game version and most of what I have seen so far looks great.

 

There are aspects about the app I do like and I can see how it can enhance the game. However, aside from the fact that one of the reasons I play board games is because I don't want to be looking at a screen (I do it all day for work), my other issue is the timed nature of the game.

 

One of the reasons I play board games is to chill out and relax - this is also one of the reasons I love the PC version, its turn based so I can play it at my own pace. Board games are also social, when we play we often chat about stuff - the timer will be putting a stop to that as there will be no time to banter. So whilst the timed element might add some tension/excitement to the game, it removes some of the social aspect, plus it has turned an original turn based concept into a real time one.

 

And that is why I am in two minds as to whether I buy this or not. I really want to want to buy this game but these concerns will most likely prevent me from doing so. 

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Having played the game, I find the App really interesting. All the app does is this, picks the order in witch players perform the invasion steps and keeps a timer for each step. No, you do not have to be online to use the app. You can also use a computer as well as a smartphone. What I really liked about the app is the pressure it helps create in the game. By having these individual timers you feel pressure as your performing the task it tells you to. I will say if you are prone to analysis paralysis you will have a hard time with this game.

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Having played the game, I find the App really interesting. All the app does is this, picks the order in witch players perform the invasion steps and keeps a timer for each step. No, you do not have to be online to use the app. You can also use a computer as well as a smartphone. What I really liked about the app is the pressure it helps create in the game. By having these individual timers you feel pressure as your performing the task it tells you to. I will say if you are prone to analysis paralysis you will have a hard time with this game.

 

Hmmm, on one hand this gives me hope we can alter the rules so we don't need the app, but on the other hand It's basically a timer. Last time i played a game with a timer that required multi-media was Atmosfear... and that got old fast.

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This would have been amazing, why oh why oh why did they make having to use an App compulsory?

 

WORST. MARKETING. DECISION. EVER.

 

I have no way to use Apps

 

Game over.

 

I can understand your frustration if you are not able to use the app (though if you're on the Internet, you will have the possibility of getting a PC app or using a webpage), but throwing out nonsense such as this being the worst marketing decision ever is too much. I think FFG has a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't. Sure, the compulsory app polarizes, but more than enough people will buy and enjoy this game, me being one of them.

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I remember back in the day when people couldn't accept FAQs done by the company over the internet.  Seems like this is the same thing.  Of course there are people that won't accept it just like back in the early/mid 90's on that.  There will always be people who dislike the game for some reason even if it is a good game.

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I am dissapointed they chose such an Iconic game for their hybrid game.

Lastly, this statement is nothing but emotion. 

 

 

Ok, but you ARE aware that emotion influences purchasing decisions, and if the guy doesn't like the thing, he's not gonna buy it no matter how much you argue that his reasons for not liking it are wrong, right?

 

I'm not trying to change his mind.  Just trying to keep those reasons from getting too ingrained in those that are more 'on the fence'. 

 

And FFG is paying you HOW MUCH to do this?

 

Seriously, anyone who's devoted as much of their time and life on this planet defending a non-issue as you have is either a troll or a shill.  Which is it?

Edited by Doctor X

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My two cents.....I have to admit I'm initially in the camp of anti app.  Just because...I don't want a timer, I don't want an RTS board game.  That being said, the thought of an X-Com board game makes me dizzy with delight.  I have logged more hours than I will admit to the recent PC X-Com.

 

Now, I'm thinking that surely FFG had the forethought to realize how polarizing an app with a board game would be.  If so, I'm a little surprised that an alternate 'board gaming' option is not included with the offer.  That would have made both camps happy.  (Me)  However, I also understand there are probably numerous reasons why supporting both options for a game is not feasible, from economic reasons to 'that's just the way this game is gonna be designed'.  So don't get me wrong.  I am hoping the game is a success.  I'm hoping the app is a 'hit'.  Whether it's for me or not...I'll determine that after some 'hands on' time at my local game shop.      

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From what I could tell from watching the Gencon videos, "Easy mode" has unlimited pause time, which could effectively make the game not timed at all, just let each player finish their roles and move on to the next.  However, I don't know how this would effect the app's decision making for where stuff goes, with it being easy mode and all

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Some people don't buy miniature games because the expense is ridiculous according to them. Some don't buy deck building games because they hate buying new packs constantly to remain competitive. Some people don't buy heavily complex games like arkham because they think games should be casual. Some people won't buy x-com because of an app requirement.

I love the idea of an app making a complex game simpler. Then I can get some more of my friends who are intimidated by arkham to play. Will this accomplish that? I don't know. I can tell you that I will judge it by what I see and not by a gut reaction to something different.

If you don't like the game then I am sure you will find something here that suits your taste. Just like the miniature haters, deck building haters, and the casuals have done up till now. :)

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So many different types of gamers loved the new XCOM video game. Naturally you're going to have some division on how a board game would be created.

 

I'm pretty sure FFG wanted to try and appeal to a larger audience by adding the mechanic of having a digital app being an integral part of the game.

 

Not everybody likes board games so maybe FFG was hoping to drag some of those players in with an app.

 

I dunno. Just speculating. I'm getting this game regardless. I have a smartphone but not a tablet. If the game is good enough I might just consider purchasing a cheap tablet.

 

We shall see.

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I will definitely be hijacking my wife's Ipad...or my buddies Ipad, or my other buddies android tablet, or my laptop, or the four other laptops I have access too, or the swirling legions of smartphones that surround me...

 

Can't wait to try this game!

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Ewww. The game has required dice?

 

Ewww. The game requires you to provide your own scoring device?

 

Ewww. The game needs a CD player?

 

Ewww. The game needs batteries?

 

Ewww. The game has a required app?

 

All reasons people may not choose to play a given game, and all reasons that have nothing to do with whether the game is any good or not (okay, some of them have a degree of correlation with game quality, but that doesn't tell you about specific games)

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Having watched several demos of this game at GenCon ...

 

* You can play easy mode, which allows you unlimited pausing, so can essentially be an untimed game.

* The app does a number of things: It determines the order of events for the players to resolve. It also has an agenda that it chooses, which then alters what the aliens do and where the aliens appear.  In essence, it is almost like the game has a brain/AI that the players are playing against.  I don't think this can be easily (or satisfactorily) replicated by a card deck. I also think this will greatly increase the replayability of the game.

 

I thought it looked and played great at GenCon, and I am greatly looking forward to picking this up ... even though I am not a fan of time-based games (like Space Alert).

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