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power500500

Scientist Boredom...

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I honestly love just about everything that this game is offering but there is one question that comes to mind when looking at all of the elements and that is the scientist role. The Commander has to track funding, resolve crises, and allocate defensive measures around the globe. The Central Officer relays app info, spawns UFOs, assigns orbital defenses, and tracks the threat level. The Squad Leader handles troop deployment and ground defenses. Then we have the Chief Scientist...he uses alien materials to research tech. Now don't confuse this as a discussion about the CS's importance. I believe that the CS will be VERY important in the long game. My issue is that it seems awfully boring. Will this player just be saying every turn "I choose this research", 3 turns later "I now choose this research" RINSE AND REPEAT? Do you guys and gals think the CS will be more interesting, and how?

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I honestly love just about everything that this game is offering but there is one question that comes to mind when looking at all of the elements and that is the scientist role. The Commander has to track funding, resolve crises, and allocate defensive measures around the globe. The Central Officer relays app info, spawns UFOs, assigns orbital defenses, and tracks the threat level. The Squad Leader handles troop deployment and ground defenses. Then we have the Chief Scientist...he uses alien materials to research tech. Now don't confuse this as a discussion about the CS's importance. I believe that the CS will be VERY important in the long game. My issue is that it seems awfully boring. Will this player just be saying every turn "I choose this research", 3 turns later "I now choose this research" RINSE AND REPEAT? Do you guys and gals think the CS will be more interesting, and how?

I think the chief scientist is also in charge of manufacturing and equipping researched items to the organisation. At least thats what I got from the item description page. Looks like its a combination of scientist and engineer from the videogame. But I see what you mean.

Edited by Primarch_Guilliman

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I wonder if the rolls stay with the same person the whole game or if they move around(like Space Cadets).  May help with the boredom

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I wonder how big of a part of the game the roles are.  IN the computer game there was a manage-your-base part and an attack-the-aliens part.  If this game is at all like that, then the roles are only for half the game, and the other part will be combat.  

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I wonder if the rolls stay with the same person the whole game or if they move around(like Space Cadets).  May help with the boredom

 

Alternating roles is an interesting concept but honestly I hope that's not the case. 

 

 

I wonder how big of a part of the game the roles are.  IN the computer game there was a manage-your-base part and an attack-the-aliens part.  If this game is at all like that, then the roles are only for half the game, and the other part will be combat.  

 

Looking at the board, it doesn't seem to have any sort of tactical battle map. I think it'll just be "how many, what kind, and how armed are your forces?" You're assigned a number of particular dice and role them against the aliens. It just doesn't look like an actual tactical battle can take place given the board layout. Could be wrong.

 

 

I honestly love just about everything that this game is offering but there is one question that comes to mind when looking at all of the elements and that is the scientist role. The Commander has to track funding, resolve crises, and allocate defensive measures around the globe. The Central Officer relays app info, spawns UFOs, assigns orbital defenses, and tracks the threat level. The Squad Leader handles troop deployment and ground defenses. Then we have the Chief Scientist...he uses alien materials to research tech. Now don't confuse this as a discussion about the CS's importance. I believe that the CS will be VERY important in the long game. My issue is that it seems awfully boring. Will this player just be saying every turn "I choose this research", 3 turns later "I now choose this research" RINSE AND REPEAT? Do you guys and gals think the CS will be more interesting, and how?

I think the chief scientist is also in charge of manufacturing and equipping researched items to the organisation. At least thats what I got from the item description page. Looks like its a combination of scientist and engineer from the videogame. But I see what you mean.

 

 

Unfortunately, that's still just choose this item, finish in a few turns, and choose something else to research/manufacture, repeat. I'm sure they have something planned. I just wish I knew what it was :P 

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I honestly love just about everything that this game is offering but there is one question that comes to mind when looking at all of the elements and that is the scientist role. The Commander has to track funding, resolve crises, and allocate defensive measures around the globe. The Central Officer relays app info, spawns UFOs, assigns orbital defenses, and tracks the threat level. The Squad Leader handles troop deployment and ground defenses. Then we have the Chief Scientist...he uses alien materials to research tech. Now don't confuse this as a discussion about the CS's importance. I believe that the CS will be VERY important in the long game. My issue is that it seems awfully boring. Will this player just be saying every turn "I choose this research", 3 turns later "I now choose this research" RINSE AND REPEAT? Do you guys and gals think the CS will be more interesting, and how?

 

You should read the description page a bit more carefully:

 

Part of your job as Chief Scientist, then, is not only to decide how best to direct the organization’s research efforts but also to prioritize between them, allocating more scientists to the projects you decide will best benefit the war effort.

 

  • Each success rolled by the scientists assigned to a research task adds one success token to the task. To complete their research, the scientists need to earn the number of success tokens indicated by the task.

 

"Your scientists will suffer fatigue or succumb to alien diseases and won’t be able to continue until they’ve recovered."

 

It sounds like there's a lot more to the scientist role than you're giving it credit for. It looks like it'll be a mix of worker placement/management, and balancing risk and reward to achieve scientific advances in a timely manner.

 

All that, in addition to deciding which advances to be working on in the first place.

 

Not to mention, if success tokens are saved from turn to turn, you might have a project that you occasionally work on when there are no other pressing issues and takes a long time to complete - but as soon as a more urgent technology becomes available you start working on that.

 

Plus, it appears technology comes in the form of cards that the chief scientist draws and keeps in their hand. See the Xenobiology card text:

"Discard X Salvage > Research a tech card of cost X from your hand. Limit once per round."

 

Sounds like the scientist will have a lot to do, and be a very interesting role to play indeed.

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Well first off I don't think I gave them less credit than deserved since all I was doing was saying "I have no idea, please enlighten me, everyone". That aside, yes, I'm sure the CS will make die rolls and, yes, I'm sure they can have status conditions like being fatigued, but that is still just choose this research...roll a die...every once in a while,succumb to fatigue or don't...repeat. Meanwhile you have roles like the Commander who, as I said before, tracks and allocates the budget for the entire project, resolves the crises that effect everyone (ie the aliean diseases and the like), and assigning interceptors to the different UFO attacks around the world. Again, I am not saying the CS will not be very fun to play as I've been told I am, I am simply trying to get input on how you guys think it will be interesting. Also, as I said before, DON'T CONFUSE THIS AS A THREAD ON THE IMPORTANCE OF THE SCIENTIST, simply as the fun factor in playing him.

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Power, sorry, I'm not following you.

 

You titled this thread "scientist boredom" but now you claim you're not saying the scientist will be boring to play? Huh?

Also, I guess I don't see your comparison to the Commander. You say "CS will make die rolls ... have status conditions like being fatigued ... choose this research" while ignoring the fact that they're also deciding which research to actively pursue in addition to which are available.

 

I could say the say thing about the Commander:

All the Commander does is track a budget, read cards, and place interceptors on the map. Sounds boring.

 

I'm being facetious when I say it sounds boring. My point is that the Commander is no more boring than the Scientist is IMHO. The scientist actually has a lot of decisions to make: which research will I play from my hand? Which of those researches will I staff with scientists? How many scientists will I staff that research with? Should I move scientists to a different research project? Should I push my scientists to complete this research faster?

Given, I'm making some assumptions of how the game will work based on the limited information we have. But I can definitely see the Scientist being one of the most involved roles by far. There's a lot of very important decisions that will have lasting consequences for the game. The choice to pursue a powerful technology and finish it up early might make the players struggle through part of the game, but then be able to pull out a clutch victory in the end thanks to the availability of an important piece of technology.

 

Alternatively, the choice not to pursue a technology due to it's cost might make your team successful at the start, but leave you waning later in the game and struggling to stay in it.

 

Those decisions are all on the shoulders of the scientist.

Edited by ialsoagree

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Power, sorry, I'm not following you.

 

You titled this thread "scientist boredom" but now you claim you're not saying the scientist will be boring to play? Huh?

 

Firstly, I never said it will or will not be boring. I have no idea if it will. You don't either. I was simply relaying what I gathered from the description and asking if anyone could shed some light on it. 

 

 

 

Alternatively, the choice not to pursue a technology due to it's cost might make your team successful at the start, but leave you waning later in the game and struggling to stay in it.

 

Those decisions are all on the shoulders of the scientist.

 

Secondly, you're confusing the term "importance" with "excitement". I am trying REALLY REALLY hard to stress that point but you're not understanding me apparently. For instance, a police dispatcher job is very very important but what they do is quite boring. 

 

 

I wonder if the rolls stay with the same person the whole game or if they move around(like Space Cadets).  May help with the boredom

 

Alternating roles is an interesting concept but honestly I hope that's not the case. 

 

 

I wonder how big of a part of the game the roles are.  IN the computer game there was a manage-your-base part and an attack-the-aliens part.  If this game is at all like that, then the roles are only for half the game, and the other part will be combat.  

 

Looking at the board, it doesn't seem to have any sort of tactical battle map. I think it'll just be "how many, what kind, and how armed are your forces?" You're assigned a number of particular dice and role them against the aliens. It just doesn't look like an actual tactical battle can take place given the board layout. Could be wrong.

 

 

I honestly love just about everything that this game is offering but there is one question that comes to mind when looking at all of the elements and that is the scientist role. The Commander has to track funding, resolve crises, and allocate defensive measures around the globe. The Central Officer relays app info, spawns UFOs, assigns orbital defenses, and tracks the threat level. The Squad Leader handles troop deployment and ground defenses. Then we have the Chief Scientist...he uses alien materials to research tech. Now don't confuse this as a discussion about the CS's importance. I believe that the CS will be VERY important in the long game. My issue is that it seems awfully boring. Will this player just be saying every turn "I choose this research", 3 turns later "I now choose this research" RINSE AND REPEAT? Do you guys and gals think the CS will be more interesting, and how?

I think the chief scientist is also in charge of manufacturing and equipping researched items to the organisation. At least thats what I got from the item description page. Looks like its a combination of scientist and engineer from the videogame. But I see what you mean.

 

 

Unfortunately, that's still just choose this item, finish in a few turns, and choose something else to research/manufacture, repeat. I'm sure they have something planned. I just wish I knew what it was :P

 

 

And lastly, I'm not arguing anything. As you see here, I fully believe they will have something bigger planned for the CS. I'm just trying to get people's opinion on what it is. 

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I would imagine each role will have specific tasks, and placement and rolls to achieve most turns.  

 

FFG are good at ensuring you aren't redundant in games, so I suspect there will be synergy in the cards from various role decks.

 

In same ways think pandemic - that had some roles that didn't seem interesting on paper, but that was not the case in the game

power500500 likes this

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Ok I understand you know the role will be important, But I feel it will be just as exciting, involved and nerve racking as any of the others. "Will I roll well enough to boost our fighters in time to stop that raid? and if I do will I have doomed our ground teams with sub-par weaponry?" You are effectively the party buff bot and as a player of supports resource management in those roles can be intense and exciting.

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One of the GENCON videos specifically mentioned the fact that some roles are less challenging than others, and that this was a positive thing as not everyone who plays games wants a high challenge. Many gamers rope in family members just to make up the numbers and those family members would probably appreciate a less challenging, if somewhat boring, role.

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Power, sorry, I'm not following you.

 

You titled this thread "scientist boredom" but now you claim you're not saying the scientist will be boring to play? Huh?

 

Firstly, I never said it will or will not be boring. I have no idea if it will. You don't either. I was simply relaying what I gathered from the description and asking if anyone could shed some light on it. 

 

Huh?

 

My issue is that it seems awfully boring.

 

​For someone who doesn't know if this will be boring, you seem pretty insistent that it is - especially considering you titled the thread that it would be boring, then made a remark that it seems boring to you.

Anyway, I don't think I can have a discussion when someone makes a declarative statement and then argues it was actually a question.

What you mistake for importance, I view as exciting.

What you say is exciting about the other roles could just as easily be called importance, not excitement.

Edited by ialsoagree

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I honestly love just about everything that this game is offering but there is one question that comes to mind when looking at all of the elements and that is the scientist role. The Commander has to track funding, resolve crises, and allocate defensive measures around the globe. The Central Officer relays app info, spawns UFOs, assigns orbital defenses, and tracks the threat level. The Squad Leader handles troop deployment and ground defenses. Then we have the Chief Scientist...he uses alien materials to research tech. Now don't confuse this as a discussion about the CS's importance. I believe that the CS will be VERY important in the long game. My issue is that it seems awfully boring. Will this player just be saying every turn "I choose this research", 3 turns later "I now choose this research" RINSE AND REPEAT? Do you guys and gals think the CS will be more interesting, and how?

 

CS has to keep track of up to 3 researches at once and decide the number of scientists on each. It is certainly the least stressful role, and you might interpret it as "boring". Although the CS's failure does not mean a straight decent to defeat, it does make other leaders's life a living hell. Certain players might prefer a more frantic role like Squad Leader, but others will find this role ideal.

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Power, sorry, I'm not following you.

 

You titled this thread "scientist boredom" but now you claim you're not saying the scientist will be boring to play? Huh?

 

Firstly, I never said it will or will not be boring. I have no idea if it will. You don't either. I was simply relaying what I gathered from the description and asking if anyone could shed some light on it. 

 

Huh?

 

My issue is that it seems awfully boring.

 

​For someone who doesn't know if this will be boring, you seem pretty insistent that it is - especially considering you titled the thread that it would be boring, then made a remark that it seems boring to you.

Anyway, I don't think I can have a discussion when someone makes a declarative statement and then argues it was actually a question.

 

 

 

Oh my goodness! Do you just thrive off kicking up dust and not actually discussing a friggin' thing!? You're acting like a troll. Yes, the title is "Scientist Boredom", good job. It is the topic. It does not mean, however, that I believe the CS WILL BE boring (Which I've stated COUNTLESS times here, and is apparently soaring high over your head), it is simply the TOPIC of this discussion. Let me break it down for you how a "topic" works, if you start a discussion titled "Homosexuality in America". Does it mean you love homosexuals? No. Does it mean you dislike the homosexual lifestyle? No. It is the TITLE of the topic, not an opinion. I'm sorry to explode like this but I'm simply not getting through to you.

 

 

On a lighter note, after seeing Gen Con's interviews and demos, I can say that what I've seen of the CS will be more in-depth that previously thought. Not much more but more. As SmokeGunner stated earlier, FFG has made it clear that the CS is the least engaging role, comparatively. 

Edited by power500500

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I had the opportunity to demo this at GenCon and I played the scientist. The actions during the timed mode are lighting quick so when the app timer gets going, there's not a lot of time for anyone to be bored.

 

The scientist and the comms officer are definitely support players with the scientist being probably the most basic. The commander and especially the squad leader are the rock stars of the game.

 

With that being said, I still enjoyed playing the game regardless of the role I was in. Every player was forced to make tough calls at some point in the short demo that we played. The app kept us on the ball and you could tell that the game was going to be tense.

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