Will there be some form of card pack (or something) allowing play WITHOUT the app?

[xanderf 6,778]

No offense intended, I'm sure it seems like a great idea on paper, but I rather prefer playing boardgames to get away from the constant intrusion of digital devices in my life.

 

The 'required app' thing rather rubs me the wrong way - is there any way to provide that level of randomness, 'decision on invasion plan to use', etc using cards, or dice, something like that?

 

Just hoping FFG is keeping us every-once-in-a-while-Luddite folks in mind...

[Bleached Lizard 31]

Even if FFG don't do it, I'm sure there'll be a fan mod made in no time.

[Tigernan 1]

I sure hope so.

 

I played the original X-Com as a kid growing up and played pretty much all of them right up to this last one by Firaxis. I was so excited to see that FFG was making a board game version but I immediately was turned off when I saw the requirement to have an app or computer to play. Not going to waste my money. If I wanted to use an app or computer, I'll just play the video game.

 

Here's to hoping someone comes up with a way to play with the electronic requirement.

 

Patrick

~Not as lean, or as mean, but always a Marine.

~Go with God, but make him walk point.

[Phil_Fantus 13]

Couldn't agree more. I really really like X-Com, but the idea of using apps doesn't appeal to me. Now I can't imagine FFG making the app a mandatory part of their game. There are still people around who don't own iPhones and use computers only for working. And who like to keep it that way.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Phil_Fantus

[nilus2k 2]

While I won't argue preference I would argue that in a group of 4 people you can't find one of them that has some internet enabled device they can use to run the app.  

 

I like the idea of an app doing all the heavy lifting for me in a game.  Especially considering it means expansions can be done digitally a lot quicker then having to print and ship a bunch of new cards. 

[Inksplat 284]

There are people who don't have enough table space for Arkham or Eldritch. People who don't have big enough groups to play Werewolf or even Avalon with. People who don't have CD-players to play games that require soundtracks. Plenty of games require things that some people just don't have access to.

 

This isn't something to be afraid of. Having a game that can intelligently respond to your actions is awesome.

 

And really, if no one in your gaming group has a smartphone, tablet, or laptop.. I'm not sure who you are.

[xanderf 6,778]

And really, if no one in your gaming group has a smartphone, tablet, or laptop.. I'm not sure who you are.

 

I still regularly break out FFG's "Lord of the Rings" game, released in 2000.

 

You know, the year 2000 - 7 years before the very first iPhone was even invented.  A year before even Windows XP was released (that's right, the consumer OS of choice at the time was Windows 98).

 

How much luck would you have, today, playing a game that required you to get a Windows 98 emulator running in order to use the app required to play it?

 

It's not today I'm worried about so much (although it's certainly a factor - one of the nice things about boardgames is that when power goes out for a few days due to weather, I can just keep on plugging away at them without a hitch), but figuring out how to play them 10, 20, 30 years from now - a lifespan any good boardgame will have!  Computers and software, in contrast, get obsolete fast.

 

Do you want to have the app as an option?  Something to add value to play for the few years it still works on mainstream systems?  That's cool with me!  I don't want it to be the ONLY way to play, though.  (Smacks too much of the gimmicky old "VHS boardgames")

Edited August 5, 2014 by xanderf

[KBTibbs 2]

 

And really, if no one in your gaming group has a smartphone, tablet, or laptop.. I'm not sure who you are.

 

I still regularly break out FFG's "Lord of the Rings" game, released in 2000.

 

You know, the year 2000 - 7 years before the very first iPhone was even invented.  A year before even Windows XP was released (that's right, the consumer OS of choice at the time was Windows 98).

 

How much luck would you have, today, playing a game that required you to get a Windows 98 emulator running in order to use the app required to play it?

 

It's not today I'm worried about so much (although it's certainly a factor - one of the nice things about boardgames is that when power goes out for a few days due to weather, I can just keep on plugging away at them without a hitch), but figuring out how to play them 10, 20, 30 years from now - a lifespan any good boardgame will have!  Computers and software, in contrast, get obsolete fast.

 

Do you want to have the app as an option?  Something to add value to play for the few years it still works on mainstream systems?  That's cool with me!  I don't want it to be the ONLY way to play, though.  (Smacks too much of the gimmicky old "VHS boardgames")

 

I don't know.  I don't have much time to think about it while I play the original Metroid on my 3DS (28 years after its first release). Or Day of the Tentacle on my dosbox SCUMM emulator (21 years old).

But what happens when the cardboard combat wheel from Dune (1979) gets destroyed? Or someone falls onto the cube tower from Shogun (1987)? What if in 30 years, the tiny wheels from the X-wing minis game gets rubbed so you can't tell if you went forward or did a gentle left turn?

Games eventually get too old to play. That's a fact.

If you find that digital technology dies too fast for your comfort, I'm sure you'll find some way to deal with not owning this game.

Edited August 5, 2014 by KBTibbs

[Redblock 432]

Its good to have digital alternative. But boardgame requiring digital device, and only 1, so not laptop or something is sooooo fulll offff Faaaaaailllll

[Inksplat 284]

Its good to have digital alternative. But boardgame requiring digital device, and only 1, so not laptop or something is sooooo fulll offff Faaaaaailllll

 

What are you talking about? Laptop is an option if you actually read the article.

 

 

 

And really, if no one in your gaming group has a smartphone, tablet, or laptop.. I'm not sure who you are.

 

I still regularly break out FFG's "Lord of the Rings" game, released in 2000.

 

You know, the year 2000 - 7 years before the very first iPhone was even invented.  A year before even Windows XP was released (that's right, the consumer OS of choice at the time was Windows 98).

 

How much luck would you have, today, playing a game that required you to get a Windows 98 emulator running in order to use the app required to play it?

 

It's not today I'm worried about so much (although it's certainly a factor - one of the nice things about boardgames is that when power goes out for a few days due to weather, I can just keep on plugging away at them without a hitch), but figuring out how to play them 10, 20, 30 years from now - a lifespan any good boardgame will have!  Computers and software, in contrast, get obsolete fast.

 

Do you want to have the app as an option?  Something to add value to play for the few years it still works on mainstream systems?  That's cool with me!  I don't want it to be the ONLY way to play, though.  (Smacks too much of the gimmicky old "VHS boardgames")

 

 

I have the original X-Com (from 1994. 20 years!) installed on my Windows 8 laptop right now, so, your argument is kind of invalid.

 

And really, people need to stop acting like this is the only board game in existence. "But if the power goes out, what will i do!?" Play a different game?

 

I can't play Quantum if I have a group of 5. I can't play Battle Line if I have a group of 3. Plenty of board games have requirements.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Inksplat

[nilus2k 2]

Its good to have digital alternative. But boardgame requiring digital device, and only 1, so not laptop or something is sooooo fulll offff Faaaaaailllll

 

Not sure what you mean.  The site says it will be a tablet/phone app and a free website.   So as long as the website is up it will be accessible and playable.  And a website can be gotten to by any laptop or PC(or hell many smart TVs).   Worse case if FFG eventually takes the site down, someone will grab the files and post them elsewhere.   I am sure if the game is popular and well loved it will continue to be played

[Doctor X 9]

Have no issue with the app, just want to know if it's going to be available for Android.  Would love an XCOM boardgame, would NOT love to have to go out and buy an iPad if I want to play it.  (Yes, I know there's a laptop version, but hauling the game AND the laptop over to friends' houses could be complicated.)

[MatthiasWlkp 0]

While I won't argue preference I would argue that in a group of 4 people you can't find one of them that has some internet enabled device they can use to run the app.  

 

I like the idea of an app doing all the heavy lifting for me in a game.  Especially considering it means expansions can be done digitally a lot quicker then having to print and ship a bunch of new cards. 

 

I agree with the above, but overall I feel more concern than enthusiasm for the required app. I just don't like digital stuff around my boardgames. I was very annoyed by my MTG app to count life after I bought commander decks (not enough D20 dice + commander damage) - that was only counting life! After a while I used pen and paper over the app.

 

However, if that's taking away dozens of rolls just to figure one "automated" action, it might actually save the game...

[period3 267]

As long as we're dreaming, I'd also like the .APK files made available for sideloading.  I don't have or want google accounts for my android devices. 

 

At least there's a web option though, which is probably what I'll end up using.

 

Have no issue with the app, just want to know if it's going to be available for Android.  Would love an XCOM boardgame, would NOT love to have to go out and buy an iPad if I want to play it.  (Yes, I know there's a laptop version, but hauling the game AND the laptop over to friends' houses could be complicated.)

[pairadocs 2]

I know I won't buy this game unless the app is not required.  Defeats the whole purpose of it being a board game to me.  I like to get away from my devices every now and then, and play a board game with my friends, not being tied to having to have an app or an Internet connection...

If I wanted to play X-Com with a digital component, well, I can play the video game, on my laptop or my iPhone or iPad. 

 

[Nick Demus 13]

I like the app idea. It´s excactly the kind of game where having a laptop sitting nearby that gives you intel will add to the mood of the game. You can also run the X-Com score on it while playing.

[Steve-O 473]

I know I won't buy this game unless the app is not required.  Defeats the whole purpose of it being a board game to me.

It certainly sounds like the app is an integral part of the game from the announcement.

There is mention of a "real-time phase" where the app presumably announces things that happen on the board, and players respond. That may be as simple as a timed soundtrack, like Space Alert, or it might be dynamically generating events (like UFO sightings) at random for a timed period.

In either case, I can see homebrew ideas that could remove the need for the app, although it might require another player to take over the aliens, depending on how complicated the sequence of events in this phase are.

Then there's mention of the app tracking certain game information for you and teaching the rules as it goes. That stuff sounds like cake that can probably be easily handled outside the app, if you're so inclined.

Finally, they say something about the aliens being able to disrupt satellite communications (ie: the app will sometimes decide to take away information that's normally open, forcing you to take actions without all the information normally available.) I imagine there are rules for that which could be incorporated into an "alien player" homebrew easily enough. It might not be reasonably feasible to "de-app" this feature AND keep the game co-op, though.

TLDR; I think there's a good chance that determined "no app required" players could create house rules to get rid of the app. It would probably require the introduction of an "alien" player, thereby changing the game from co-op to 1 vs Many. If you're willing to do that, the game may end up being worth buying (for you.)

If you're not willing to buy it unless you can play RAW without the app, then I would recommend you get used to the idea that you won't be buying it. Sounds like the app is a pretty big part of the game design.

For myself, I can certainly understand why the integrated app business is so controversial. It's not a big enough deal to make me walk away, though. My only real concern there is continued support for the app (or lack thereof) in 10-20 years, after the board game is long OOP. I am, however, willing to explore house rules if I need to, so I'm confident I can find a way to keep playing in that eventuality. =)

[booored 247]

No offense intended, I'm sure it seems like a great idea on paper, but I rather prefer playing boardgames to get away from the constant intrusion of digital devices in my life.

The 'required app' thing rather rubs me the wrong way - is there any way to provide that level of randomness, 'decision on invasion plan to use', etc using cards, or dice, something like that?

couldn't agree more. The idea of using a application is a total turn off. Was excited when I heard of this, but now.. curious, but not interested. I'll defiantly never buy it if the app is a must use.

play them 10, 20, 30 years from now

Pretty sure the "app" is going to be a webpage.. so accessing it from any device through a browser should give it longevity, as long as FFG exists.

[HungryWulf 178]

Having a home-brew version with a player taking the role of the aliens sounds like it could turn into what I don't like about Descent: Second Edition. Namely, one person has to be the ****, and a lot of the scenarios are too easy for the Overlord to "game" and lessen the enjoyment for the other players.

 

Apparently, they're running a demo of X-Com at GenCon, so I (and anyone else going) will have to check it out and see how the app works, see if it is integral to the game or can be replicated with some sort of random card deck/dice roll element.

[thatwalshguy 20]

As much as I LOVE the idea that this has a companion app that helps, the only reason why I play board games is to get away from all my computer screens! 

 

However, I'm still excited, and very glad that FFG got the keys to do XCOM justice.  Wahoo! 

[xanderf 6,778]

There is mention of a "real-time phase" where the app presumably announces things that happen on the board, and players respond. That may be as simple as a timed soundtrack, like Space Alert, or it might be dynamically generating events (like UFO sightings) at random for a timed period.

 

 

Or, ya know, the way boardgames previously had 'timed rounds' before apps - a small sand timer/hourglass.

 

I really don't have a problem with the concept of an app as a value-add, and, indeed, I'd realistically PROBABLY use said app when playing.

 

But I don't want to be forced to - that's the part I have the issue with.  IMHO, it's pretty important the game come with the right rules and components to be playable totally out-of-the-box, with the app as a nice feature-add, instead of a core component.

[Misfiring 1]

Only Central Officer is required to interact with the app, so you can take other roles if you don't want to use the app.

[johnkzin 0]

I can think of lots of reasons to want an alternative to an app.

 

It's not just about luddites (or non-luddites on a no-devices vacation, or on a vacation to a place that doesn't have signal).  Nor is it just about what's out there that will or wont support current applications in 30 years (because, whether you want to admit it or not, if you're still running SNES and DOS games on your computer, you're not a normal human being -- you're a geek in the truest sense (meaning someone with a specialized set of knowledge -- I don't consider it to be an insult, but it is a reality you have to admit if you're one of those people)).  It's about _all_ of those things.
 

 

And, guess what, this isn't the first game that has tried to do some form of companion.  Others mentioned CD companion games, plus DVD companion games, and before those, VHS companion games.  Do you know what you call a VHS companion game, released in the early 1990's, these days?  it's not "vintage"... it's "that crap gathering dust in the attic," because not even ebay people will buy it.  Compare that to the various games from the 1980's that people still play (even with some wear and tear ... or with some third party replacement parts because the main company is out of business, but lots of hobbyists still support it ... or even with some improvised replacement parts).

 

What we're talking about here is games that normal human beings will play, and want to play, over the long term lifespan of a board game... which is _more_ than 30 years.

 

FFG is basically saying "we don't want you to play this game under the very circumstances in which people choose to play boardgames instead of computer/mobile-device games."  And since this is a board game ... that will essentially eventually translate to "we don't want you to play this game".

 

As with VHS games before it, when you tie a board game to some form of companion device, you're making a fad game.  And fad games don't stand the test of time.  The fad passes.  Whatever was novel about it becomes obsolete.  It becomes so niche that only the most picky of collectors will buy it (which means yours better be mint).  And if you miss that window of opportunity, it becomes part of the pile of dust-gathering crap in the attic.

 

That's what FFG is trying to sell you, if they don't have an alternative to playing with the app: a pile of dust-gathering crap for your attic.  Skip the middle man, and just put a cardboard box in your attic.

[theonelawler 2]

I can think of lots of reasons to want an alternative to an app.

 

It's not just about luddites (or non-luddites on a no-devices vacation, or on a vacation to a place that doesn't have signal).  Nor is it just about what's out there that will or wont support current applications in 30 years (because, whether you want to admit it or not, if you're still running SNES and DOS games on your computer, you're not a normal human being -- you're a geek in the truest sense (meaning someone with a specialized set of knowledge -- I don't consider it to be an insult, but it is a reality you have to admit if you're one of those people)).  It's about _all_ of those things.

 

 

And, guess what, this isn't the first game that has tried to do some form of companion.  Others mentioned CD companion games, plus DVD companion games, and before those, VHS companion games.  Do you know what you call a VHS companion game, released in the early 1990's, these days?  it's not "vintage"... it's "that crap gathering dust in the attic," because not even ebay people will buy it.  Compare that to the various games from the 1980's that people still play (even with some wear and tear ... or with some third party replacement parts because the main company is out of business, but lots of hobbyists still support it ... or even with some improvised replacement parts).

 

What we're talking about here is games that normal human beings will play, and want to play, over the long term lifespan of a board game... which is _more_ than 30 years.

 

FFG is basically saying "we don't want you to play this game under the very circumstances in which people choose to play boardgames instead of computer/mobile-device games."  And since this is a board game ... that will essentially eventually translate to "we don't want you to play this game".

 

As with VHS games before it, when you tie a board game to some form of companion device, you're making a fad game.  And fad games don't stand the test of time.  The fad passes.  Whatever was novel about it becomes obsolete.  It becomes so niche that only the most picky of collectors will buy it (which means yours better be mint).  And if you miss that window of opportunity, it becomes part of the pile of dust-gathering crap in the attic.

 

That's what FFG is trying to sell you, if they don't have an alternative to playing with the app: a pile of dust-gathering crap for your attic.  Skip the middle man, and just put a cardboard box in your attic.

 

really any game which ties in to a movie/tv show or game is a fad and not maunt of them lasy but FFG have done fairly well so i would not just says this is a fab game and be done with it but if that what people want to it most likely not going to be a huge loss if this game sell or not will be more with if the game is good or bad not on if you can play with out the app or not. tho i would like to know the games people still play from 30 years ago?

[Slothgodfather 270]

So there was talk earlier of people going to GenCon getting in some demos and letting others know how the game was.   I'm surprised, as more than a week later, that no one has chimed in. I only just now found this thread or I would have posted sooner.  Did anyone else get to make it out there and manage to get a demo?   (TL;DR at the bottom)

 

I was lucky enough to go and get a demo and I, for one, fully embrace my new app overlord.   I will admit though that I never thought the mandatory app was a bad thing.  I think it is a very awesome concept and was very curious how it was implemented.  I actually hadn't heard anything about this board game, so when I arrived at GenCon and saw FFG doing demos for it, I was super excited.  I had no clue what to expect from it, so I hovered over a few games and finally got a demo.

 

DEMO SETUP:

 

I'm sure you all have gathered the 4 roles of the players, and that you can play 1 - 4 players, but you still have to use all 4 identities.  The Central Officer, who basically is the satellite/information guy, is the one that interfaces with the app.  In the demo, I was the Commander, who had to decide what crisis to deal with, keep track of allocated funds, use the fighter jets to combat alien crafts as well as recruit more troops if able.

 

Each "round" seems to be similar to a month in X-COM enemy unknown.  During the demo, we did 2 rounds.  The first round was not timed.  Each time an event/encounter comes up, the demo guy would pause the app and walk us through what was happening.  

 

During a round, the app, which is basically an extension of the world scanner from X-COM EU, will tell you when some event happens, such as an opportunity to get $ or begin research, if a mission is available, when you can deploy troops, enemy encounters on the board or on your base, and a lots of other various things. Here is how my 2 round demo went.

 

Round 1: We didn't have any alien craft invasions, but we did have a few missions given to us - one is selected as the "active" mission by the Squad Leader - and our base was also being attacked by a Crissalid (sp).   Our Chief Scientist also filled up all 3 bays with research and committed various scientists to the job.  A few crisis did come up during that round.  When this happens, the Commander looks at two crisis cards and picks one.  They are all bad.  They pile up in the crisis pile.  Then, basically before the end of the round/month, you go around and resolve each players side board.  The Chief Scientist does some roles to see if he succeeds in researching his various tech, the Central Officer deploys some satellites and can use special abilities to deploy troops/crafts if necessary.   The Commander pays all his bills and resolves the crisis cards.  In our first round, we went over budget by 4 billion dollars.  We have to settle up, so we extort the money from a single country, raising their panic level by 1 bar for each billion dollars over.  Then we went to combat with our Squad Leader.  Each enemy can be engaged by a certain amount of troops, depicted by the icons on them.  They also are weak against certain troop types.   Our SL commits 3 troops to fight the Crissalid and about 4 towards the mission.  (I think we started with 8 total).  Each troop committed to a fight allows you 1 die roll.  Since the Crissalid was weak against the sniper, which was on the mission, he got to roll 1 extra dice.  Unfortunately, the die were against him.  He lost his entire team in the attack and our base took 1 point of damage to it's integrity.  Similarly, his 4 troops on the mission were slaughtered.  

 

NOTES THUS FAR: The attacks directly on the base are obviously something new to the board game that is not present in the PC game but I still felt it was a good include and solid mechanic.  Combat can be harsh, similar to the game, and it was not surprising that the first time we encountered Crissalids was a major defeat.  In that regard, it felt very true to the game.  Those dudes rock.   It is also clear that money management is going to be important.  Each thing the other players put onto the board cost a billion dollars.  While it is a co-op game, they are ultimately responsible for the decision on their turn of how many troops/scientists/satellites to deploy. As the Commander, it was my responsibility to allocate those funds and try to get them to spend wisely and keep enough back to replenish our troops as necessary.   Also, at the end of the round, we put some information into the app to let it know how we did with our encounters.  I think this is so it can handle invasions that were not cleared from the board by the jet fighters.

 

ROUND 2: For this round, our Chief Scientist player wanted to control the app, so he switched places with the guy running the demo.  This was a timed round, which is where I felt the game really shined.  You have approx 20 seconds to decide how to deal with whatever event comes up.  You don't have to roll any die during this portion, it seems to only be decision making.  The Central Officer acknowledges that we have dealt with a particular event and the timer continues. The intensity I felt while playing this round was great.  The semi-rushed game pacing puts pressure on each decision you have to make and I was immediately hooked.  I love the franchise anyways, but I also love the concepts of this game and what the app offers as well as how much fun I can see my friends and I having trying to make the best out of bad situations and trying to thwart the evil aliens.   During this round we had several invasion events happen with lots of aliens landing around the world.  There were a few more that attacked the base as well but we didn't have the troops to handle them.  I scooped up all of our emergency funds so we could replenish our troops at the end of the round and rolled exceptionally well for all of my jet fighters.  The scientist also rolled well and we got some satellite and armor upgrades for the other players.  By the end of this rather quick round we had nearly refilled our troop ranks as well as decimated the aliens that had landed around the world.  The crisis cards that came up did, as expected, hurt us some, but we looked to be in a good position moving into the next round.   

 

Unfortunately, the 2 demo tables were REALLY popular and so everyone was only allowed 2 rounds, thus ending my experience.  I talked a little more with the guy running it.  The demo we got focused on the main mechanics of the game, but there were a few things left out - such as some mechanic that would let soldiers go up in rank and be an improved troop.

 

FINAL NOTES: I'm honestly really hoping they have some X-COM side events at Worlds this year so I can get a full game in.  The intensity of the real round is what really sold me on this game.  There are a few other things that weren't covered, something about completing missions making the game shorter and just what all options are available out of the app.  I did notice that when you start the game you can select your difficulty level, which I thought was really awesome as well.  As for those that dislike the concept of a companion game, as some have called it, I feel you are overreacting.  Yes, it requires an electronic device to use, but I would highly disagree with any that want to compare this to VHS/CD/DVD companion games.  Apps are not going anywhere any time soon, if ever.  And even if they do somehow fade out, you can be sure that FFG (or some independent) will update the app to whatever the future tech is.  I highly doubt that this game will simply stop working before the cardboard fades away.  Now, if you are just dead set against having any electronics involved in your board games, then maybe this game just isn't for you.  No, you are NOT entitled to have an X-COM board game experience.  FFG is offering this game with the app requirement.  If it isn't for you, then simply move on.  There is simply no reason to get upset over this.  

 

TL;DR: The demo I got at GenCon really sold me on this game being awesome and intense with timed rounds.  The app component is not a distraction and is completely integral to the game and, honestly, to the feel of the game.  You are a high tech organization combating an alien invasion.  I don't think you'd accomplish that if you calculated everything on an abacus.  Try the game before bashing it.  If the app requirement isn't for you, simply move on.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Slothgodfather