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Krynn007

It's another question about base touching.

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I've had this happen actually a few times in our games

I move a ship.

It's final position just touches my opponents ships, but doesn't overlap.

We always played it as a collision, so therefore he would lose his action and not able to fire at that ship.

I've been seeing some discussion on here so it makes me question as what we are doing wrong.

Since technically they didn't over lap.

Just touching.

Does the original ship still get his actions and can fire at the ship where his base is touching

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There is only overlapping or no overlapping.

If the ships overlap there is no action for the overlapper and the ships cant fire at eachother (unless you for some reason are running Arvel).

If the ships don't overlap the ship that moved can take actions and they can target eachother.

Edited by Veldrin

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That case is pretty clear-cut: you're not overlapping.

 

My rule of thumb in "borderline" cases is that it's always more fun to roll dice than it is to not roll dice. So if it's just on the border of Range 3, it's in range (roll dice). If an extra half-millimeter of movement would make ships overlap an obstacle or base, you're clear (roll dice). If it's right on the border of your firing arc, it's in arc (roll dice).

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Unfortunately FFG’s use of the word ‘Touching’ for a rules term was poorly thought out. It's the only instance I have come across  in gaming where a rules term actually contradicts the real word meaning of the word.

 

‘The ships are touching each other but they are not touching”

 

A term I propose to replace “Touching” with would be “Close Quarters”

 

  1. If 2 ships over lap that are in “Close Quarters”

 

  1. Ships in “Close Quarters” cannot shoot at each other.

 

It has a nice ring to it, is quite appropriate terminology and would clear up almost all confusion with the word/Rule “Touching”

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I've had this happen actually a few times in our games

I move a ship.

... but doesn't overlap.

 

There ya go, right there. Let's say Wedge crashes dead-on into the back of Luke. Next turn, they both make a straight 1. They move the same amount, so logically they're touching, but there was no overlapping so they're okay.

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Unfortunately FFG’s use of the word ‘Touching’ for a rules term was poorly thought out. It's the only instance I have come across  in gaming where a rules term actually contradicts the real word meaning of the word.

Well, thankfully FFG went out of their way to correct that lack of experience for you.

 

We'll add in "simultaneous" and then throw "immediately" on the pile, just for fun.

 

Snark aside, I agree that "touching" is indeed a pretty stupid name for a game state.

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Unfortunately FFG’s use of the word ‘Touching’ for a rules term was poorly thought out. It's the only instance I have come across  in gaming where a rules term actually contradicts the real word meaning of the word.

 

‘The ships are touching each other but they are not touching”

 

A term I propose to replace “Touching” with would be “Close Quarters”

 

  1. If 2 ships over lap that are in “Close Quarters”

 

  1. Ships in “Close Quarters” cannot shoot at each other.

 

It has a nice ring to it, is quite appropriate terminology and would clear up almost all confusion with the word/Rule “Touching”

 

I'd flip that, use Close Quarters for ships side by side, yet not under the rule of touching/overlapping.. 

 

makes more sense to me that way

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Is there a clear rule as to whether the "ramming" ship can or can't fire?

 

The main rule book (under the section on overlapping bases) says that if a ship runs into you and has to back up along its movement template until it is just touching bases, that ramming ship lose its action … but on the other side, the rammed ship cannot target it during the combat phase.  ... BUT can the ramming ship shoot?
 
I think it oughta be able to shoot.  The ship running into you is flying right at you and shouldn’t have a problem blasting away as it does so, even if it doesn’t have any spare attention to devote to an action.  Whereas the ship being run into is probably surprised by the whole thing, can focus or evade, but probably wouldn’t have time to aim and fire.
 
However ... that hardly seems right from a gaming standpoint.  If only the rammer can shoot, it would be tactically beneficial to ram ships (lower pilot skills moving first could ram the hell out of higher pilot skill ships, right?)
 
Related question (and sorry if this is a dumb question):  If a Pilot Skill 2 ship rams Vader head-on (overlapping), and has to back up to just touching, can Vader at Pilot Skill 8 move when it comes his turn to move, flying through the ship that just rammed him?

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The main rule book (under the section on overlapping bases) says that if a ship runs into you and has to back up along its movement template until it is just touching bases, that ramming ship lose its action … but on the other side, the rammed ship cannot target it during the combat phase.  ... BUT can the ramming ship shoot?

 
Related question (and sorry if this is a dumb question):  If a Pilot Skill 2 ship rams Vader head-on (overlapping), and has to back up to just touching, can Vader at Pilot Skill 8 move when it comes his turn to move, flying through the ship that just rammed him?

 

Yes, Vader can fly on by as long as his maneuver will get him clear. If you ram him with a Rookie (PS2), you stop and finish touching his base, and lose your Perform Action step. But because he moves later, he can zip past and still carry out his actions. It is only if his final position would cause an overlap that he would stop and lose actions.

The only ships you can't fire at, are any you are still touching (as the result of an overlap). Page 10.

Edited by Parravon

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So if I K-Turn over an E-Wing with a Tie Fighter I loose my actions correct? Not just from the Stress. But if even I just flew over with say a 4 Straight. I still get my shot as well right?

But if the bases are touching at any point the two ships in contact cannot shoot at each other. But at other ships.

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Obstacles care about whether your template overlaps them during your maneuver, as well as whether your final base position overlaps them.

 

Ships, on the other hand, only care about your base's final position. If you perform a maneuver that involves the template overlapping a ship, but your final position is clear of the other ship, there's no consequence. No lost action, no restriction on attack targets.

 

And re: "...if the bases are touching at any point..." you don't move your base along the template and check for overlaps along the way. You pick your base up and put it down at the other end of the template. You don't need to worry about intermediate positions unless a ship overlap causes you to backtrack down your template to find a position where you're not overlapping.

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Touching ONLY occurs if you overlap ship bases.  If your maneuver template goes through another ship but ultimately your ship base does not overlap with the E-wing's base, then it is NOT touching and can fire.

 

If you DO overlap, then not only can you not take a shot at the E-wing, you also don't even turn around, so you end up just doing a red straight instead of a K-turn.  

 

Touching ships can fire at any other ship, just not the ones they are touching.

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So if I K-Turn over an E-Wing with a Tie Fighter I loose my actions correct? Not just from the Stress. But if even I just flew over with say a 4 Straight. I still get my shot as well right?

But if the bases are touching at any point the two ships in contact cannot shoot at each other. But at other ships.

Ship overlapping is determined by the final position of the ship - Not the template placement.

If you perform a maneuver that has your template going through a ship's location - that does not affect your actions or firing.

Example would be a Tie Defender that has a White 4 K-turn.  If there is a ship in his path, you mark the ships location to allow you to place your template and perform the move.  The Defender would still be allowed his action.

The only time the template going over something is a factor is when you have an obstacle (Debris or Asteroid) or a bomb like Proximity Mine or Conner Net.

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Rule only triggers if they actually overlap. If the ship was able to complete his/her move even though theyre touching another ship, long as that ship didnt inch over slightly, they didnt bump.

 

Ive had some people pull off K turns that close lol.

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I'm I truly, honestly can't tell if it's an overlap or not, I generally roll a red die. On a hit/crit, it's an overlap, on a blank/eye it's not. More fun that way :)

It's an overlap if you CAN'T place your ship flat on the table without it hitting the other ship. If you CAN place it flat, it's merely "adjacent" to it, and not touching. Being in base contact, does not always constitute "touching" as defined by the rules. 

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