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Kilazar

Giving this another go. Advice?

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WHEN do you spend surges? Before defense is rolled? Or can you wait to spend them after the defense roll? Unless it's a special surge thing like "need one surge to hit shadow dragon". Right now we played spend when you want.. so if a hero surged he could wait to see what the defense is, and then if a heart would get through, choose stun.. etc.

Per the attack rules on page 11, rolling dice is step 2, checking range is step 3 and spending surges is step 4. So all surges are spent after dice are rolled. 

 

Can Jane interrupt her feat for anything other than her built in attack. Can she interrupt it for the built in attack and two other attacks, then complete the move?

No. Firstly, you can only interrupt a Move Action and Jain's special ability is not a Move Action (it's a Special Action that happens to involve letting her move as part of its effect.)

Secondly, the special ability itself requires Jain to spend an action, so she definitely could not get in two other attacks, even if she could interrupt it (which she can't anyway.)

Can she open doors during her feat if she's thief and has the open door for no action ability?

This one is a bit sticky.

Once an action (any action) has been initiated, it must be resolved completely before another action can be initiated. However, with the Thief ability, opening doors is not an action.

Unfortunately, the word "ability" is not actually defined in the rules. It is used to refer to basically anything a player can "do," but whether or not an ability can be done in the middle of an action is not properly defined.

I'm inclined to say no, myself, because I want to limit the number of things that can be happening all at the same time, but there's definitely room to argue the other side if you're so inclined.

Can you stop her with a trap card that saps or ends the move action?

You can't use a trap that triggers "during a Move Action" because this ability is not a Move Action (as above.) However, you could use a trap that triggers upon "entering a space" because she's still doing that each time she moves.

When a group is given a tile with no specific spot to start in, can the OL place say a large monster so that some of it's mass is not on the tile as long as 1 or 2 of it's bits are on the required space? Or does it have to be placed entirely within the tile? Or rather can a shadow dragon straddle a tile connection as long as one or more of it's bits occupy squares in the required tile?

You must place the figure(s) entirely on the specified tile if it's possible to do so. If there's no room on the specified tile to fit all required figures, then the excess must be placed as close as legally possible.

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Can Jane interrupt her feat for anything other than her built in attack. Can she interrupt it for the built in attack and two other attacks, then complete the move? Can she open doors during her feat if she's thief and has the open door for no action ability? Can you stop her with a trap card that saps or ends the move action?

 

 

When a group is given a tile with no specific spot to start in, can the OL place say a large monster so that some of it's mass is not on the tile as long as 1 or 2 of it's bits are on the required space? Or does it have to be placed entirely within the tile? Or rather can a shadow dragon straddle a tile connection as long as one or more of it's bits occupy squares in the required tile?

Move actions can be interrupted to perform other actions, but Jain's feat is not a move action- it's a special action where the character moves double speed and attacks somewhere in there.

 

Monsters can't voluntarily be placed only partially on the tile they start, but when spawning if a tile isn't big enough to hold the reinforcements, then they can be placed partially (the reinforcements can't be blocked.)

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Fourth and last for the day was my choice, and I went with castle derian. Hero's win.. Took ettins for the entrance group (should have taken dragons...) And Barghasts for the exit group. I only killed on fricken thing thanks to Jain and her stupid feet again. The barghast could not close the deal on the up most one, he kept defending. Encounter 2 was kind of a joke. I got 15 damage on Palamon before the hero's managed to just clear my stuff. I did not have hardly any OL cards carried over from encounter 1 because it ended so fast.

 

 

Avoid Castel Daerion if you are the OL, it is a hard one to claim (assuming you are playing with the errata).  Masquerade Ball is better suited to the OL.

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Fourth and last for the day was my choice, and I went with castle derian. Hero's win.. Took ettins for the entrance group (should have taken dragons...) And Barghasts for the exit group. I only killed on fricken thing thanks to Jain and her stupid feet again. The barghast could not close the deal on the up most one, he kept defending. Encounter 2 was kind of a joke. I got 15 damage on Palamon before the hero's managed to just clear my stuff. I did not have hardly any OL cards carried over from encounter 1 because it ended so fast.

 

 

Avoid Castel Daerion if you are the OL, it is a hard one to claim (assuming you are playing with the errata).  Masquerade Ball is better suited to the OL.

 

 

 

I will remember that for next time. I was going off of a spreadsheet that said OL had advantage. 

 

Ok so back to Jain. Is jain moving off of an MP pool as if she took two move actions (I know it's not a move action so I can't key off of that.) I'm thinking of things like pit trap, can I hit her on her last entrance of a space and cause her to be stunned?

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As @Steve-O indicated above, you can use any card and/or ability that affects a hero entering a new space.

 

I get that I could use pit trap.. But would it actually cause her to suffer the effects. Hence why I'm asking if the feat generates an MP pool. If it does, then I'd have to wait until she used her last MP if I wanted to stun her. If does not, then I can use the pit trap during any portion of her feat that she enters a new space. I know it won't stop the attack she gets as part of the feat.

 

Just trying to get the in's on any way to stop her. Because right now she is the major reason encounters are getting beaten. And I've only been able to punish her once for bolting off by herself. And that was in the cardinal plight, when she bolted to the farthest search token to try for a fast rune of dawn. I was able to spawn gobo's and block her in.

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Her feat is not a move action, and does not generate a movement point pool. Rather, it indicates that she moves a number of spaces up to her speed.

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Her feat is not a move action, and does not generate a movement point pool. Rather, it indicates that she moves a number of spaces up to her speed.

 

@Kilazar ... Whitewing's clarification means that each and every space she enters is a space that you can play on card on her.

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Her feat is not a move action, and does not generate a movement point pool. Rather, it indicates that she moves a number of spaces up to her speed.

 

 

Thanks that is what i was looking for. I wanted to make sure that if I played this on her when she moved 3 spaces she would suffer the stun without being able to go, well I'll move an extra space cause I have MP to burn thus not triggering the "no mp" portion of the card. And also make sure I did not have to wait until jain used the 10 move to hit her with it.

 

 

 

Not being a move action did not necessarily preclude the feat having  or not having an MP pool. The MP system in this can be wonky if you sit down and think about it.

Edited by Kilazar

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Her feat is not a move action, and does not generate a movement point pool. Rather, it indicates that she moves a number of spaces up to her speed.

 

 

Thanks that is what i was looking for. I wanted to make sure that if I played this on her when she moved 3 spaces she would suffer the stun without being able to go, well I'll move an extra space cause I have MP to burn thus not triggering the "no mp" portion of the card. And also make sure I did not have to wait until jain used the 10 move to hit her with it.

 

 

 

Not being a move action did not necessarily preclude the feat having  or not having an MP pool. The MP system in this can be wonky if you sit down and think about it.

 

 

Can be is an understatement. It helps if you think of movements points as only generated by things that specifically state that they generate movement points, as well as move actions. Anything else at all that involves movement of any kind does not use movement points for it.

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I really think that from this point on, I'm going to punish the Jain player any time I can. Because her feat has pretty much sealed the deal on all the quests so far. 

 

Hell she one shots my master shadow dragons with that stupid crossbow. 

 

So I think this thread will remain alive for further reports on the continence of our sessions. Next chapter.. punch Jain in the face repeatedly!

 

So the next quest is The Shadow Rune.

 

Heroes are as follows, not I will butcher this because my stuff is not in front of me.

Grisban - zerker - axe of awesome

Jain - Thief - stupid crossbow and shield from death on the wing quest

Leoric - Necro - 

Alvric - Disciple - 

 

Overlord cards - Basic with explosive runes x2

Belthir with the following cards - Dual Training, Cut a Deal, Resourceful, and Fight with Honor

Relic from Cardinal quest

 

I have (as the OL) 2 xp and 3 threat to spend. And I honestly don't know where I want to go with my OL deck or plot deck. I thought the combo of Start of turn , resourceful via fight with honor.. then discard another card to use the staff to get back what I put on my deck was not as good as I thought it was going to be.. In fact. It is terrible.

 

So I'm up for suggestions on where to go with my decks.

Edited by Kilazar

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Just so you know, if you stun Jain during her heroic feat, she will not be stopped. She'll become stunned, but that's her second action for her turn (assuming the heroic feat was the first action.) She still gets to resolve the action she already started (move double her speed and attack.)

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OK I'm gonna hijack this thread for just a moment, and I'm gonna level with you guys big time.

So I've been making a HUGE blunder apparently: I've read the rules X times over and I NEVER noticed that defense is rolled at the same time with attack. We have ALWAYS rolled defense after surges. Perhaps this is due to it being so "obvious" that no one contested it and I never had to reference it, who knows.

So OK, I've totally messed that up through 4-6 campaigns and various campaigns that made it 2 quests in and died, but at the moment whatever, at least we were consistent on both sides (OL and hero).

But here's the thing: what about fire breath and blast on a surge? I mean I get that ruling would be the obvious "just roll defense for the other figures because they are newly effected by the attack" but this reaaaaly doesn't make sense to me given how logically rolling defense after surges has been for us, especially since now you are seeing the full results of the attack. The blast-affected figures are now essentially the "lucky ones" since the attacker didn't know the full results of dmg vs defense dice against them and may have chosen to pull back the attack for stamina.

The single target risk associated with stamina regen is all sorts of messed up now. In our plays it was a matter of:

"OK I can do 4 damage plus stamina or 5 damage to this goblin, is he going to roll 2 defense? naw no way, go for the 4 damage plus... DAMNIT!"

 

...and in a way that seemed like a great risk-reward opportunity, not to mention a more obvious approach since it was basically setting up the form of the attack, then having the defender roll dice against the formulated attack. In the correct way of playing, this same element exists, but only when an attack gains the ability to affect additional targets?

Hmm... I'm kinda irked on this... it's totally my mistake and I'm going to give the correct way quite a bit of time as you have to keep control by sticking to the rules best as possible... but I may just house rule this out of comfort and even perhaps deeper game play... especially since we haven't come into any conflict where the way we've been doing it screws up the game.

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Don't feel bad, Carbini. I played 2 campaigns like that (as an intentional house rule, actually) and it was a lot of fun. It added a degree of complexity to combat, causing the attacker to weigh the risk of inflicting less damage against gaining a benefit from a surge. Honestly, we only stopped because of how much it was found to mess up the "after dice are rolled" trigger on attack (but mostly defense) abilities. For example, the shadow dragon could spend his surge on fire breath only to have the fire breath cancelled by the original target. 

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Her feat is not a move action, and does not generate a movement point pool. Rather, it indicates that she moves a number of spaces up to her speed.

 

 

Thanks that is what i was looking for. I wanted to make sure that if I played this on her when she moved 3 spaces she would suffer the stun without being able to go, well I'll move an extra space cause I have MP to burn thus not triggering the "no mp" portion of the card. And also make sure I did not have to wait until jain used the 10 move to hit her with it.

 

 

 

Not being a move action did not necessarily preclude the feat having  or not having an MP pool. The MP system in this can be wonky if you sit down and think about it.

 

Can be is an understatement. It helps if you think of movements points as only generated by things that specifically state that they generate movement points, as well as move actions. Anything else at all that involves movement of any kind does not use movement points for it.

Interesting, did not know that (but for some reason i play skill cards like that)... couldn't she just use 1 fatigue to generate a movement point before using her heroic feat, then use the movement point after the heroic feat is done? That way pit-trap would not stun her as she has movement points to lose ?

Edited by BentoSan

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Her feat is not a move action, and does not generate a movement point pool. Rather, it indicates that she moves a number of spaces up to her speed.

 

 

Thanks that is what i was looking for. I wanted to make sure that if I played this on her when she moved 3 spaces she would suffer the stun without being able to go, well I'll move an extra space cause I have MP to burn thus not triggering the "no mp" portion of the card. And also make sure I did not have to wait until jain used the 10 move to hit her with it.

 

 

 

Not being a move action did not necessarily preclude the feat having  or not having an MP pool. The MP system in this can be wonky if you sit down and think about it.

 

 

Can be is an understatement. It helps if you think of movements points as only generated by things that specifically state that they generate movement points, as well as move actions. Anything else at all that involves movement of any kind does not use movement points for it.

 

Interesting, did not know that (but for some reason i play skill cards like that)... couldn't she just use 1 fatigue to generate a movement point before using her heroic feat, then use the movement point after the heroic feat is done? That way pit-trap would not stun her as she has movement points to lose ?

 

 

Using fatigue to move does not generate movement points persay. That is why pit trap is so effective against fatigue movement.

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Her feat is not a move action, and does not generate a movement point pool. Rather, it indicates that she moves a number of spaces up to her speed.

 

 

Thanks that is what i was looking for. I wanted to make sure that if I played this on her when she moved 3 spaces she would suffer the stun without being able to go, well I'll move an extra space cause I have MP to burn thus not triggering the "no mp" portion of the card. And also make sure I did not have to wait until jain used the 10 move to hit her with it.

 

 

 

Not being a move action did not necessarily preclude the feat having  or not having an MP pool. The MP system in this can be wonky if you sit down and think about it.

 

 

Can be is an understatement. It helps if you think of movements points as only generated by things that specifically state that they generate movement points, as well as move actions. Anything else at all that involves movement of any kind does not use movement points for it.

 

Interesting, did not know that (but for some reason i play skill cards like that)... couldn't she just use 1 fatigue to generate a movement point before using her heroic feat, then use the movement point after the heroic feat is done? That way pit-trap would not stun her as she has movement points to lose ?

 

 

Using fatigue to move does not generate movement points persay. That is why pit trap is so effective against fatigue movement.

 

 

Using fatigue to move does actually generate movement points, it's one of those things that specifically states that it does. He is correct, Jain could spend a point of fatigue to gain a movement point before using the heroic feat, use the heroic feat, have the movement point the entire movement to be safe from pit trap, and then use it after the feat ends.

 

Of course, this would mean she'd have to burn a fatigue every time she used her heroic feat to be safe against a pit trap the overlord might not even have, but yes, it's a viable move. Given that fatigue on Jain is at a premium due to her heroic ability, I don't have a problem with this.

Edited by Whitewing
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She could do this. It's also beneficial to heroes to take their "fatigue movements" at the beginning or end of a move action if pit trap is a threat, or to take multiple fatigue at once before moving if separate from a move action.

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Not being a move action did not necessarily preclude the feat having  or not having an MP pool. The MP system in this can be wonky if you sit down and think about it.

No kidding. =P

The answers I provided above were based on RAW, but in our sessions we've actually house-ruled movement pretty heavily, just because we got fed up with all these little "gotcha" moments regarding what is or is not counted as an MP, etc.

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The movement system is pretty terrible i agree, it really needs some extreme streamlining.

I have very few problems with the movement point system as is. Move actions grant MP, and spending fatigue can get MP without the need for an action. MP can be spent from the time they are received until the end of your turn (if it is your turn,) otherwise they must be spent immediately. "Remove and place" is a special action that has nothing to do with MP. "Move X" is a special action that doesn't actually involve movement points, but ends up being treated as if you received movement points outside of your turn- that is, you must spend them immediately and can't interrupt to do something else.To me, that all makes perfect sense.

 

The bit that annoys me is that a "move action" must consist of both receiving MP equal to your speed and spending those MP. When it's interpreted as solely the granting of MP, it makes the entire notion of "interrupting a move action" nonsensical.

Edited by Zaltyre

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Your right the movement is not too bad in itself, but when you tie it into what the OL cards say it adds a layer of complexity that causes arguments at the table until everyone is finally on the same page about the finer details of the movement rules.

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Your right the movement is not too bad in itself, but when you tie it into what the OL cards say it adds a layer of complexity that causes arguments at the table until everyone is finally on the same page about the finer details of the movement rules.

While that can become an issue, I've tried my best to be clear on the rules (as an OL or hero) so that if a situation comes up, I can articulate why clearly, and it's usually just a matter of clarifying that the triggering condition has been met (that is 1- you entered an empty space 2- you have no movement points. Therefore, you are stunned.)

Edited by Zaltyre

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Got the Shadow Vault coming up this weekend.

 

Looking for advice on how I can possibly stop the power house heroe's from just walking away with the casket.

 

I was thinking gobo's menders and Ettins(or barghasts).

 

Start the menders with zacharath and the gobo's on the river. and start the ettins off the board. Retreat Zach and the menders to the caravan, or the river right away, and attempt to make the river the killing zone. As the (if I go with ettins) ettins come on the board, move them towards the exit instead of towards the fight. Block off with the red ettin and hopfully get good throw rolls if needed.

Edited by Kilazar

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