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Ramellan

Loyalist Traitor Chapters

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How about extreme time distortion from warp travel? Say you are in command of a legion strike vessel (let's say Iron Warriors) with a small contigent of legionaries. you have just won a great victory on Istvaan V. You get orders to conquer some backwater world to use as a suply dump. You head into the warp- and when you come out the chronometer reads M40.581 and when you make planetfall you find the people worshiping the Emperor. And it has nothing to do with Lorgar- they have been worshiping the emperor for 10.000 years now. And on the frescoes of the imperial basilica you find a mural of the emperor slaying the beast Horus. Now what would you do?

 

Bear in mind: you have NO idea what happened after the drop site massacres. Maybe you have seen the eye of terror on a galactic map, but you have no idea thats where the traitors fled to. You might be able to find out from the populace that the astartes are the emperors angels of vengeance. What do you do? Head for Terra to fight for a warmaster that is 10.000 years dead. Or is it more likely that you pretend to be some obscure space marine chapter?

Unless you somehow can make contact with traitor marines- and even if you can, do you still want to join them once you see what they have become? (especially the deathguard!)

 

Well, if you had turned traitor, you'll more than likely remain so, and probably head out to a Warp tear to regroup with the rest of your kin or become a band of raiders. Finding out that traitor marines fled to the warp is not too difficult, but getting there, and getting in without getting destroyed by the warp and hordes of other heretics and traitors might be a bit more difficult. Becoming raiders is even easier, since you already have a ship and serious equipment; you just have to find more up to date navigation charts, and are set for the most part.

 

However, you might reconsider your past actions based on the consequences they had (most of you fellow have become chaos tainted abobinations, which you never signed up for), and become some form of renegade chapter ala Soul Drinkers, still affiliated with humanity if not the Imperium, and operating outside the standard command structure.

 

More interestingly, if you get warped to the modern era before your legion turned traitor, you have an even greater dilemma; all you knew about your legion has changed, but if you can find out what truly happened during the Horus Heresy, you may find that the Emperor is not without his own sins. In any case, you'll have to chose between rejoining the ranks of the Imperium or turning your back on it, and, either way, you'll probably want to change your name and heraldry for something not directly associated with the most famous traitor chapters in history. If you change your heraldry, or have one that is not immediately recognizable as traitorous (like the pre-heresy World Eaters, Thousand Sons or Luna Wolves), you should be able to escape any serious scrutiny, and integrate back into modern society as just another chapter long lost in the Warp without too many issues after a getting acquainted with the historical events of the last 10000 years and current state of the Imperium.

This has actually been done (unofficially). The time displacement, choosing what to do with yourselves, it's the story of the Knights Repentant, a /tg homebrew chapter made up of pre-heresy Word Bearers. Oh, what was that page again?

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Knights_Repentant

There we go. I highly recommend reading the fluff parts, it's good stuff. Here's my favorite part:

"They searched all of the records, all f the archives and all of the libraries searching, desperately searching for something, anything. Something to make the nightmares they now saw when they closed their eyes and imagined the future that never was, something that could prove all they had witnessed was a bad dream, something to reveal a diabolical ruse. They found nothing of the sort. But they did find some things. They now had a rudimentary knowledge of this new and terrible era. They knew what awaited them.

The only logical thing, the Adeptus Mechanicus claimed, was to run. Flee to the horizon and never, ever stop. This dreaded Inquisition would find them. They would be hunted, and if they did not break orbit immediately they would be put down like rabid, mongrel dogs.

But they had faith. If they were to die then they would die as men, with dignity, not fleeing like rats from a fire. Weapon systems were powered down, shields were lowered, engines cooled, and all over the fleet, the hymns of sorrow were sung. It was a cold and lonely night as they waited for judgement."

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Wait, what?! The Grey Knights have successor chapters?! Source?

I'd be interested in hearing a source for this, too.

I was actually mulling over potential links between the Exorcists and the Grey Knights today. They're kind of opposite ends of the same spectrum: marine chapters that fight Daemons in different ways. The Grey Knights are (or were until their last codex) puritans, and the Exorcists are radicals from the outset.

It occurred to me that a neat way to retcon the section from the Grey Knights Codex that everyone hates (ok, not Draigo, the other one, the one about killing Sororitas for their 'pure blood') would be to make the Exorcists something of a dumping ground for the more impure Grey Knights, exiles and borderline heretics who have tried new and radical methods to defeat chaos.

What if those Grey Knights responsible for the massacre of the Sororitas were corrupted/inspired by radical inquisitors, and were subsequently exiled from the chapter by their brothers? What if there is a long tradition of these potentially tainted, radical, but otherwise still deadly and useful Grey Knights being quietly transferred to the Exorcists so the Grey Knights can continue to boast that not one of their number has ever been corrupted by chaos? What if the Exorcists were deliberately created from the start with this concept in mind?.

The source is the book I mentioned earlier; Deathwatch: Xenos Hunters. In it there are two stories about a Kill-team with an Exorcist member. At one point the Exorcist thinks to himself, going over his Chapter's past and history (which of course he can't reveal to the others) and that's where I learned it. I'd seriously recommend the book. I really like your idea, Lightbringer, it sounds much cooler, but the stuff mentioned in the book implied that the Exorcists are an attempt to create the closest thing the Imperium has to Blank Marines, using the grey knights gene seed, and their own crazy initiations, to create the unique chapter. Space Marines with no presence in the Warp.

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Hey how about chapters that went traitor but later got the Emperors' forgiveness (not to be confused with the emperors' mercy)

I'm talking about the ones who allied with the Astral Claws during the Badab war:

The Lamenters, Mantis warriors and Executioners.

 

And The Relictors got on the Inquisitions bad side for using the enemies weapons against them. 5and apearantly on the inquisition gets to swing the daemon swords!)

 

And let's not forget the Souldrinkers: branded as traitors,

once (unwittingly) did te bidding of a Lord of change *, but stil remain loyal.

 

* to bad it wasn't Kairos fateweaver :" hey look i'm a two headed bird just like your aquilla, It's ok to worship me!"

Edited by Robin Graves

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Great idea to let the Exorsists use the less noble methods of fighting daemons. But can we still get rid of draigo?

 

 

Inquisitor: "So you are a chapter of daemon hunters? and you're chapter master is where? the WARP? He spends most of his time in the realm of chaos and he occasionaly pops out to lead you guys?- right i know enough. Attention all ship captains, prepare to fire cyclonic warheads at Titan!"

 

 

You don't need to. Supreme Grand Master Draigo is a perfectly normal Chapter Master based on the Chapter's homeworld.

 

Read the timeline: Draigo returns to Ascralem (where he gets turned into Sam Beckett, leaping from Battlefield to Battlefield, always hoping his next leap will be the leap home) in 999.M41 - i.e. at the end of the current 40k timeline: he spends all of recorded 40k history as the supreme grand master on titan, leading the grey knights in a perfectly conventional manner - see his appearance alongside Azrael in the novel Pandorax.

 

Which goes a long way to making them both awesome. I love the fact that they clearly both really dislike one another despite a level of mutual respect.

 

"...And this is Grand Master..."

"Ahem. Supreme Grand Master."

 

 

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My group was having a talk about which chapter our Black Shield came from (player has left that undecided for now) and naturally after a minute we were talking about the traitor legions. While his chapter is still undecided, I went ahead and thought about Renegade chapters, cursed chapters, and after a moment, chapters that are widely suspected of being drawn from the traitor legions.

(I do not count the Storm Wardens myself)

Minotaurs: suspected World Eaters

Sons of Antaeus: suspected Death Guard

Blood Ravens: suspected Thousand Sons

Red Scorpions: suspected Emperor's Children (did not know this until last night. O.o)

Am I missing any? Cause if not then I can't help but notice that these are all the 4 chapters that are each dedicated to one of the Chaos Gods. Haven't found any sign of loyal black legion, night lords, iron warriors, or alpha legion. 1d4 chan had a home brew chapter, The Knights Repentant, for the Word Bearers, which I thought was pretty cool.

I had my own idea for a loyalist traitor chapter, and I'll share it in my next post, but first I wanna hear your thoughts. I know there must be other threads out there about this but I'm too lazy to look through 50 pages for them. So, loyalist traitors. For, or against? Ideas for the legions without suspected chapters?

 

Carcharodons are possibly Night Lords (or might just be raven guard).

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Thank you for the support. Some people thought the Storm Wardens are World Eaters because they're color scheme is close to the pre-heresy legion one, and they have that whole preference for close combat.

 

Worst argument I've ever heard, in regards to the Storm Wardens and their secret origins.

 

I'm still leaning on an old idea, that they're a White Scars successor chapter (the name and iconography is in line with the originating and other successor chapters). And while they favour heavy vehicles over bikes and speeders, their specialty is leaning toward mobile assault.

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Thank you for the support. Some people thought the Storm Wardens are World Eaters because they're color scheme is close to the pre-heresy legion one, and they have that whole preference for close combat.

 

Worst argument I've ever heard, in regards to the Storm Wardens and their secret origins.

 

I'm still leaning on an old idea, that they're a White Scars successor chapter (the name and iconography is in line with the originating and other successor chapters). And while they favour heavy vehicles over bikes and speeders, their specialty is leaning toward mobile assault.

 

 

So if they have similar color schemes they can't possibly be related, but if they both have a lightning bolt in their logo it's all right?

 

Bear in mind the Blood Ravens (neither blood angel nor raven guard) are widly believed to be the thousand sons with their chapter colors based on the pre-heresy legion colors.

 

For example: Storm hawks; Raven guard chapter. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Storm_Hawks

Imperial talons: raven guard chapter http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Talons

Red talons: Iron hands chapter! http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Red_Talons

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Minotaurs: suspected World Eaters

It seems to me increasingly arguable that the Minotaurs may well be an Iron Warriors successor chapter.

-They're both grim, dour, mechanistic fighters who use ruthless, attritional tactics where necessary

-They both use extensive ancient Greek (Grecic?) imagery.

-Perturabo, according to "Angel Exterminatus" travelled everywhere with a kind of portable labyrinth of his own construction. Minotaurs live in labyrinths. (Well, Theseus' one did, anyway.)

-The Minotaurs are part of the cursed founding, where all kinds of weird stuff was tried out.

-There were known loyalist Iron Warriors elements during the Horus Heresy, such as the 77th Grand Company, who opposed an Alpha Legion strike force during the battle of Paramar, and Warsmith Dantioch.

-Horus Heresy 3: extermination appears to be written in many ways as a companion piece to the Badab War books, giving plausible origins for both the Minotaurs (the aforementioned 77th Grand Company) and the Carcharadons (a unit of Terran pre-primarch discovery Raven Guard banished into a nomad-predation fleet by Corax due to their extreme viciousness.) The book also creates backstory for the origins of the Executioners, among others. Alan Bligh, the author, is clearly creating a pocket "Bligh-verse" within the 40k setting, in much the same way as Dan Abnett did with his "Daniverse". (Which is cool, because Bligh's the best 40k writer currently working in the setting, IMHO.)

Edited by Lightbringer

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-Horus Heresy 3: extermination appears to be written in many ways as a companion piece to the Badab War books, giving plausible origins for both the Minotaurs (the aforementioned 77th Grand Company) and the Carcharadons (a unit of Terran pre-primarch discovery Raven Guard banished into a nomad-predation fleet by Corax due to their extreme viciousness.)

 

Ah good. I was wondering why the Space Sharks were listed as a possible Raven guard successor chapter...

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Aren't the soul drinkers supposed to be descended from traitors as well? I know in the last novel it is reveled that they are not of Dorn.

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Aren't the soul drinkers supposed to be descended from traitors as well? I know in the last novel it is reveled that they are not of Dorn.

 I've only read the 1st novel, but weren't they suposed to be second founding Imperial Fists?

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Aren't the soul drinkers supposed to be descended from traitors as well? I know in the last novel it is reveled that they are not of Dorn.

 I've only read the 1st novel, but weren't they suposed to be second founding Imperial Fists?

I like the soul drinkers, but I've no clue as to who their founding chapter might really be. I think there story might be over, but I would personally love to see more of them. Maybe even in the deathwatch game with rules. Though I forget just when they went renegade. Was it before or after the 815 time of deathwatch?

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I like the soul drinkers, but I've no clue as to who their founding chapter might really be. I think there story might be over, but I would personally love to see more of them. Maybe even in the deathwatch game with rules. Though I forget just when they went renegade. Was it before or after the 815 time of deathwatch?

 

 

 I tought they were suposed to be imperial fists. No matter, warp travel time distortion fixes all! Make yourself a soul drinkers black shield and have fun!

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I like the soul drinkers, but I've no clue as to who their founding chapter might really be. I think there story might be over, but I would personally love to see more of them. Maybe even in the deathwatch game with rules. Though I forget just when they went renegade. Was it before or after the 815 time of deathwatch?

 

 

 I tought they were suposed to be imperial fists. No matter, warp travel time distortion fixes all! Make yourself a soul drinkers black shield and have fun!

 

 

So did they. That's kind of the point - all is explained (or not) if you get to the final book in the series.

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I like the idea of the Carchadons being Night Lords personally, it makes sense to me. Their described tactics feel much more Night Lord-ey they Raven guard-ey. 

 

Exorcists being Grey Knights seems kinda silly from a logistics point of view, why would you take a gene seed that is pretty much all Psykers and then make them not Psykers? I guess the possession they go through during training is easier if they are a Psyker? Seems like sort of a waste of a resource to me. *shrug*

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@CaptainStabby - a definite waste of resources, if the point of creating the Exorcists from Grey Knight gene-stock was to build non-Psykers from an entire Chapter of psychically gifted Brothers. However, as inept as the Administratum is, I cannot see them authorizing such a tremendous waste of resources just to create ''normal" (if inured to the Daemonic) Space Marines. What if, in fact, they intended to go a step beyond non-Psykers. Consider an entire Chapter of "un-Psykers." That's right. 1000 Adeptus Astartes created specifically as Untouchables. As the 40K fiction goes, these psychically-void individuals are ultra-rare and considered extremely valuable in the battle versus the Warp. Consider Bequin from Dan Abnett's Inquisitor trilogy. Or Jergen from Sandy Mitchell's Commissar Cain Archives. Both are just simple humans with a very special gift and EXTREMELY valued by Inquisitors Eisenhorn and Vail, respectively. Now take humans with this gift. Turn them into the über human Angels of Death. Suddenly you have a very dangerous if unnervingly powerful force to fight anything and everything the Warp might throw at you. Daemons, Chaos Sorcerers, Rogue Psychics, Eldar Warlocks, etc, etc. Darrion Rauth - "Watcher" from Steve Parker's Deathwatch Talon Kill-Team is an Exorcist. He presents all the classic traits of an Untouchable - appears soulless to Psykers. They find it very hard to be around him, psychically and physically. Even non-psychics feel this. He is extremely resistant to the Warp and was planted among the team specifically as a counter to the team's Librarian... This explains the high number of scout companies in the Chapter and the extremely high mortality rate among Neophyte Exorcists, even fort Space Marines. Short form: you don't intentionally waste resources like this; depending on your return, you gamble with EXTREMELY high stakes. In this case, very radical procedures (dancing well past heretical and into Extremis Diabolus...) used to create what normally is a one in a billion natural phenomenon and turning that into an incredibly powerful weapon (which could really bite you in the a$$. Can you imagine the Exorcists going rogue? Or worse, siding with The Ruinous Powers?! They may not be able to be possessed, but that's not to say they could not be swayed by a Daemon's honeyed words... *cough*HORUS HERESY*cough* Just sayin'...

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I'm suddenly reminded of the Eldar Solitaires. Rarest of the rare, these unique members of the Harlequins undergo some unknown process that renders them souless. They don't seem to negate psyker powers like real Blanks do, but the similarities between them and the Exorcists seems to be there. With the Harlequins being the Eldar version of the Grey Knights (their race's greatest weapon against Chaos) the Exorcist and Solitaire parallels seem even more apparent.

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In his eternal wisdom Emperor ordered GK to be all-psyker, despite numerous evidence that a psyker is actually more prone to dangers of the warp (sweet Throne, they use xenotech, make brofists with necrons blood-angel style, one of GK officers wields daemon weapon into battle and noone cares).

Needless to say, Exorcists seem to be far more versatile, efficient, and intelligent as a fighting force. Not having to spend a million recruits to create one exorcist and exorcist's unwillingness to murder friend and foe alike, characteristical to GK, also helps.

Edited by Chaplain
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In his eternal wisdom Emperor ordered GK to be all-psyker, despite numerous evidence that a psyker is actually more prone to dangers of the warp (sweet Throne, they use xenotech, make brofists with necrons blood-angel style, one of GK officers wields daemon weapon into battle and noone cares).

Needless to say, Exorcists seem to be far more versatile, efficient, and intelligent as a fighting force. Not having to spend a million recruits to create one exorcist and exorcist's unwillingness to murder friend and foe alike, characteristical to GK, also helps.

 

I agree with the theory of the Exorcist's having the GK's gene-seed. It makes sense, and just because the gene-seed came from a psyker, it doesn't necessarily mean that the recipient is going to be a psyker.

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Can you imagine the Exorcists going rogue? Or worse, siding with The Ruinous Powers?! They may not be able to be possessed, but that's not to say they could not be swayed by a Daemon's honeyed words...

 

Sidenote: Whether or not the Exorcists can be re-possessed seems to depend on which source you're looking at:

 

"Only 1% of the Space Marine subjects re-succumbed to daemonic influence on the planet and I believe that, subject to careful monitoring, this Chapter might eventually be granted a base and limited autonomy within a reasonable time frame."

-- from the Armageddon 3 global campaign website

 
Personally, I also doubt that Blanks can be artificially created, as I'd consider it weird that somebody in the setting did not get that idea already. Not to mention Blanks that are also compatible with Marine geneseed! But I like the idea of someone attempting it (just like with the Inquisition trying to create their own Primarchs in M36 as part of Project "Homo Sapiens Novus"), and feel that this could make an interesting plot for a campaign. :)
 

[...] a neat way to retcon the section from the Grey Knights Codex that everyone hates (ok, not Draigo, the other one, the one about killing Sororitas for their 'pure blood') [...]

 

Personally I liked it. It's a departure from the "noble shining paladin" image their visuals inspire, and I'm not sure I like that shift in direction ... but for what it was - an introduction to the dirty secrets of just how the Knights in GW's version of the setting achieve what they can do - the story made sense.

 

FFG seems to have ignored it for their books, anyways, so for most groups there would be no need to "retcon" it (I'm guessing most people stick what it says in the game's own books).

 

Also: question. I've seen people mention the Loyalist SM Gene-Seed has weakened over ten-thousand years, how did that happen?

 

GW's Index Astartes - a series of little-known articles published in White Dwarf - went into great detail concerning both the general aspects of a Space Marine Chapter as well as various individual formations, much more direct and down-to-earth than usual.

Some of its information clashes with FFG's interpretation of the setting, though, so it's important to keep in mind that the usual disclaimer applies: there is no canon.

 

But here's an excerpt of an article from WD #247, "Rites of Initiation":

 

"As each Marine has only two progenoid glands, the rate at which a Chapter can create new Marines is restricted. It may take many years for a Chapter to rebuild itself after heavy losses. Gene-seed is often rendered useless if a Marine is exposed to high radiation levels or other forms of genetic disturbance. The efficiency of different Chapters' progenoid gene-seed also varies, so some Chapters are able to make up their numbers faster than others. [...]
 
Although the Chapters are careful to select only the most suitable candidates, not all neophytes survive to become initiates. This is due in part to the degeneration of knowledge amongst the individual Chapters that makes screening procedures less effective than they once were. Nor are operational methods entirely satisfactory in some cases. In many Chapters implant surgery is heavily ritualised, and is often accompanied by scarring, incantation, periods of prayer, fasting and all sorts of mystical practices which compromise medical efficiency. For example, the Space Wolves' Phase 17 implant has slightly mutated so that Space Wolves' canine teeth continue to grow throughout their lives, turning them into vicious fangs over several centuries. The length of fangs is a source of Chapter it tradition, and is even part of their organisation, hence the veterans of their heavy weapons squads being known as Long Fangs.
 
Another Chapter about whom there is widespread rumour regarding their gene-seed are the Blood Angels. They often lapse into a battle-induced frenzy, known as the Black Rage, and can become berserk warriors who thirst for blood and raw flesh. The Blood Angels search eternally for a cure to the Curse of Sanguinius, but at the same time the Death Companies made up of such Marines are highly valuable shock troops, who are almost impervious to pain and rend apart their foes with their bare hands.
 
Another extreme example of gene-seed deterioration can be found in the Black Dragons Chapter, whose Ossmodula implant functions in an abnormal way. This leads to the growth of bony crests on the head, and blade-like protuberances from the forearm and elbow. Like the Death Company of the Blood Angels, warriors inflicted with such abnormal developments are formed into a separate fighting unit. Known as the Dragon Claws, they sharpen their additional protrusions and sheath them in adamantium to turn them into vicious close combat weapons.
 
If an implant fails to develop properly, it is likely that a Marine's metabolism will become badly out of synchronisation. He may fall into a catatonic state or suffer bouts of hyperactivity. In either event, he will probably die. Those unfortunates that do not die almost invariably suffer mental damage, degenerating into homicidal maniacs or gibbering idiots. When a Chapter is at full strength these misfits may be put out of their misery. However, if the Chapter is short of Marines they are often allowed to live, and may be placed within their own special units. Those who display uncontrollably psychotic tendencies can be recruited into suicide assault squads."
 
Grimdark! ;)
 
 
As a late addendum to the original OP - you could also have this Black Shield come from either the Sons of Malice or the Flesh Tearers. The latter are technically still considered loyalists by the end of M41, but their official excommunication was said to be imminent. As for the Sons, their excommunication is not dated, so you could have it occur either before or after that player's stint with your Deathwatch squad. Or even during! (ooooh, trouble)
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Personally I liked it. It's a departure from the "noble shining paladin"

 

Right into xenotech and daemonweapon wielding blood ritualists? Disregard that many a chapter have beed purged for far less, and not even Exorcists, commonly branded as Radicals, go that far, just focus on the fluff continuity.

Yeah balls-deep radicalism is cool and heresy tastes sweet, but isn't that, err, a bit too fast?

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That's why I also wrote what you cut out in your quote. :P

 

But to be fair, the Grey Knights are the personal army of the Ordo Malleus, of course they are going to be judged differently. This is 40k - don't expect fairness from the Imperium!

 

(though I'm fairly sure that the GKs are also under a lot more scrutiny, unlike most "normal" Chapters that like their secrecy and independence, which unsurprisingly invites suspicion)

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I should just rename this topic 'Radical Chapters and their quirks' ;)

Thank you for the well-written opinion and quoted knowledge Lynata. The idea that there is no canon is, at the same time, both freeing and hurtful. On the one hand, I can have my own idea of warhammer in my head and that is the setting to me, as valid as any other. On the other hand, it's kind of hard to find books and novels that share that view, so sometimes I get a little depressed by the setting, especially with all the bittersweet endings (I hated The Death of Antagonis so much I read it once and returned it for a refund, while the Legion of the Damned remains my favorite novel so far.)

I like my GK hardcore but not too radical personally. There's more than enough sources of grimdark already to last me a lifetime. And I wonder how the GK handle Inquisitorial investigation. Most Space Marines have their pride and honor about those things, and the Knights have the Only perfect record for purity in the entire galaxy, but they also are aware of how insidious Chaos really is, so would they understand where the inquisitors are coming from?

Oh, one new idea if you care for it? Most if not all radicalism and heresy among space marines either stems from Chaos or Themselves, such as Huron Blackheart's fall. I don't think he was specifically tricked by the daemons, just fell out with the imperium and went renegade. All that said, I can't recall any chapters that have been corrupted by the Third great threat to the Imperium: the Xenos. How bout you guys? Anyone ever hear of Space Marines joining the Tau, or something similar? Don't say Enslavers, that's too easy, and mind control isn't the same as radicalism.

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In the fluff (one of the older chaos codexes maybe) there is some mention of chapters going renegade for other reasons besides chaos, and they mention something about xenos infection/ coruption (of the geneseed) but no examples were given.

 

 

SPOILERS:

 

I wonder if the Alpha Legion working for the Kabal (to join Horus to stop Chaos) counts?

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