Bucklers use ??

[Angel of Death 126]

Can you use a Buckler, and still use a weapon with same arm?

 

[Jargal 200]

In real life - theoretically yes. But it is very inconvenient, I've tried.

RAW do not provide a mechanism for such use. I would houserule this as -30 to attacks with weapon and -10 (-15?) to parry...

[Fgdsfg 1,017]

In real life - theoretically yes. But it is very inconvenient, I've tried.

RAW do not provide a mechanism for such use. I would houserule this as -30 to attacks with weapon and -10 (-15?) to parry...

Shouldn't it be the opposite? I'd expect a Buckler to make it easier to Parry with the arm it's equipped to, not the other way around.

And -30 to attack just because of a Buckler seems a bit excessive. It's just a Buckler, not a full-blown shield.

[Jargal 200]

Shouldn't it be the opposite? I'd expect a Buckler to make it easier to Parry with the arm it's equipped to, not the other way around.

 

With only buckler - of course. But the question was about the buckler and weapon in one hand.

[Fgdsfg 1,017]

 

Shouldn't it be the opposite? I'd expect a Buckler to make it easier to Parry with the arm it's equipped to, not the other way around.

 

With only buckler - of course. But the question was about the buckler and weapon in one hand.

 

 

I know.

 

Jeez, what do you take me for?

Edited July 28, 2014 by Fgdsfg

[Jargal 200]

I know.

 

Then I do not understand you at all.

You say: "I'd expect a Buckler to make it easier to Parry with the arm it's equipped to, not the other way around." - but I say the same thing. Penalties to Parry less than to Attack.

 

And -30 to attack just because of a Buckler seems a bit excessive. It's just a Buckler, not a full-blown shield.

 

Only additional -10 to off-hand penalty.

[Fgdsfg 1,017]

 

I know.

 

Then I do not understand you at all.

You say: "I'd expect a Buckler to make it easier to Parry with the arm it's equipped to, not the other way around." - but I say the same thing. Penalties to Parry less than to Attack.

 

 

 

And -30 to attack just because of a Buckler seems a bit excessive. It's just a Buckler, not a full-blown shield.

 

Only additional -10 to off-hand penalty.

 

No-one was talking about off-hands. What you said was that when a Buckler and a Weapon was on/in the same arm, it should receive a -30 to attack.

What you apparently meant to say was -10, making it -30 if it was in the Off-Hand, which I agree is completely reasonable.

I still have no idea why you'd impose a -10/15 to the Parry, though. If anything, it should give a +10 or +15 to Parry, not a penalty. If this was also with "Off-Hand" in mind, remember that you can Parry with an Off-Hand just fine.

[Jargal 200]

No-one was talking about off-hands. What you said was that when a Buckler and a Weapon was on/in the same arm, it should receive a -30 to attack.

What you apparently meant to say was -10, making it -30 if it was in the Off-Hand, which I agree is completely reasonable.

 

Yes, I realize now that it was necessary to clarify.

 

I still have no idea why you'd impose a -10/15 to the Parry, though. If anything, it should give a +10 or +15 to Parry, not a penalty. If this was also with "Off-Hand" in mind, remember that you can Parry with an Off-Hand just fine.

 

Because in case of shield with fist grip (not sure I used the correct term, I don't know how to say it in English    ), it is important to correctly hold it. When your hand holds not only the shield handle, but also weapons handle, you lose in mobility. It is critical for the buckler - at unsuccessful block you can just lose the shield.

[Fgdsfg 1,017]

Ah, I think there's where the disconnect lies. When I think of a Buckler, I think of the wrist-attached kind of Buckler.

[Jargal 200]

Ah, I think there's where the disconnect lies. When I think of a Buckler, I think of the wrist-attached kind of Buckler.

 

Language problems, it seems. In Russian wrist-attached shield is called "hand-held shield" while "buckler" is, well, buckler

[ColArana 163]

Actually, a proper buckler WAS held in the fist. They were extremely small dueling shields, and were not strapped to the arm, as this would be counterintuitive for most late-European shields. I actually can't think of any shields that were commonly made with the wrist strap post-Ancient Greece, because they were generally inferior to handgripped shields (which offered greater maneuverability and better offensive options).

 

That said, you COULD strap a buckler to your wrist, but I'm in agreement that trying to use it in conjunction with a weapon would be extremely awkward, and you'd be suffering serious penalties to hit, using a weapon like that, and on top of that, be compromising the buckler as well, as you're trying to use some weapon that is ALREADY ridiculously heavy (Dark Heresy swords seem to be at least twice as heavy as their historical counterparts). I would honestly do both. Give the general bonus for parrying with a defensive weapon like a Buckler, but give a -10 penalty for trying to block with it while holding a weapon in the same hand, so in essence, you'd be getting a +5 to parry tests. Additionally, I'd have any attacks made with the weapon in that hand count as having the Defensive special rule, so -15 to hit with the weapon (-25 in the off hand).

[Jargal 200]

I actually can't think of any shields that were commonly made with the wrist strap post-Ancient Greece, because they were generally inferior to handgripped shields (which offered greater maneuverability and better offensive options).

 

In fact, there were quite a lot of shields with enarmes. Kite shields, paveses, some types of targes.

 

(Dark Heresy swords seem to be at least twice as heavy as their historical counterparts).

 

More than twice. My tournament carolingian sword weighs 1300 grams - which is almost two times heavier than the historical, while DH offers 3!!! kilograms for one-handed sword.

[Mikmaxs 42]

I actually can't think of any shields that were commonly made with the wrist strap post-Ancient Greece, because they were generally inferior to handgripped shields (which offered greater maneuverability and better offensive options).

 

In fact, there were quite a lot of shields with enarmes. Kite shields, paveses, some types of targes.

 

(Dark Heresy swords seem to be at least twice as heavy as their historical counterparts).

 

More than twice. My tournament carolingian sword weighs 1300 grams - which is almost two times heavier than the historical, while DH offers 3!!! kilograms for one-handed sword.

The shields you list are all massive styles, though, which exchange moveability and precision and weight for mass. Smaller shields need the flexebility granted by a grip or handle.

As for heavy swords, the weight of any sheath is 0, since it's not listed, so I always assumed it was included..Not to mention, 40k swords are generally big bulky affairs, looking at the models for Warhammer.

[Jargal 200]

The shields you list are all massive styles, though, which exchange moveability and precision and weight for mass.

 

Yep. But that does not make them inferior - just designed for a different tactical niches.

[InquisitorAlexel 244]

The close combat weapons in dark heresy are indeed a lot more heavier thant real stuff...the weight of a sword in DH is the same as a claymore IRL.

 

As of holding a sword and a buckler in the same hand...well. I do this sometimes, it is just...no interesting really...you can parry more easily, but you indeed lack grip and lack control upon the blade you take in the same hand, which is not very nice.

 

What is nice to do is to grap your ennemy's sword with your buckled hand. After wall, what use is a buckler when your adversary can't attack you!