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ObiWonka

[List] The Meta Calls, Fett & Brath Answer

37 posts in this topic

There's been some talk lately about Boba Fett (with Veteran Instincts) finally seeing some play as a Phantom counter, given their prevalence. The other "hotness" at the moment seems to be Chewbacca with C3PO, to which Rexler Brath with Outmaneuver has been suggested.

 

So I thought, why not both?

 

Boba Fett (39)

+ Engine Upgrade (4)

+ Seismic Charges (2)

+ Tactician (2)

+ Veteran Instincts (1)

 

Rexler Brath (37)

+ Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

+ Engine Upgrade (4)

+ Outmaneuver (3)

 

This only comes to 99 points, which I suppose could be used as an Initiative bid to help Rexler fight Phantoms as well. However, this was just a preliminary crack at such a list, and as such there's probably plenty of wiggle room. The essentials are VI for Fett and Outmaneuver for Brath.

 

On Fett, I added Engine to help make constantly maneuvering with banks easier. Seismic Charges helps a little against other match-ups. And Tactician can prevent re-Cloaking, as well as being generally useful.

 

For Brath, I added the HLC for even more potential damage to flip with is pilot ability. The Engine can help set up Outmaneuver (although having to use either that or Barrel Roll means not using Brath's pilot ability :().

 

A two-ship build is pretty crazy, I know, but seeing as my pet Rebel build at the moment (Corran/Chewie) has actually won an event, I figured this might be worth a shot. Thoughts?

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Might work. With only the 2 ships tho i think you need to find a way to get recon spec on fett for durability. Fett can almost always find a way to look at a phantom, but not always with the front arc at range 2 (in reference to the tactican). But even against falcons, that recon will help alot when the 3-4 headhunters all focus fire on fett. This type of list is definetly a gamble on playing certain matchups. The misc. person still playing a 4 ship rebel build or a tie swarm would be a serious problem for this.

Edited by bobbywhiskey

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Well it is only 99 points. Having the option to contest Initiative for a single PS8 ship isn't that important. RecSpec could definitely fit, though it does clash with the Engine Upgrade in that they both need actions.

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Having just played against a list running two recon specs this evening, I can tell you right now that they can shut down anyone with an Opportunist/Wes build. Just some more food for thought.

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Might work. With only the 2 ships tho i think you need to find a way to get recon spec on fett for durability. Fett can almost always find a way to look at a phantom, but not always with the front arc at range 2 (in reference to the tactican). But even against falcons, that recon will help alot when the 3-4 headhunters all focus fire on fett. This type of list is definetly a gamble on playing certain matchups. The misc. person still playing a 4 ship rebel build or a tie swarm would be a serious problem for this.

Tactician works with the rear arc too, an auxiliary firing arc is still a firing arc. The FAQ references Backstabber's ability which can and probably will be (and at some tourney's already has been) used for precedent for anything related to whether auxiliary arcs count for things such as Tactician, and Outmaneuver (I believe it would also apply to R3-A2 if we ever see a ship with an Astromech slot and a auxiliary arc and/or we see a Modification that astromechs can be used for normal crew slots(I would like to see but I believe this has some really serious balance implications) 

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I honestly don't think that Outmaneuver with Brath (or anyone else) is any great 3PO/Falcon killer.  You'll want to focus fire, and that means 3PO will be usable against someone.  I think TIE fighters are still the best anti-Falcon tool.  

bobbywhiskey likes this

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Might work. With only the 2 ships tho i think you need to find a way to get recon spec on fett for durability. Fett can almost always find a way to look at a phantom, but not always with the front arc at range 2 (in reference to the tactican). But even against falcons, that recon will help alot when the 3-4 headhunters all focus fire on fett. This type of list is definetly a gamble on playing certain matchups. The misc. person still playing a 4 ship rebel build or a tie swarm would be a serious problem for this.

Tactician works with the rear arc too, an auxiliary firing arc is still a firing arc. The FAQ references Backstabber's ability which can and probably will be (and at some tourney's already has been) used for precedent for anything related to whether auxiliary arcs count for things such as Tactician, and Outmaneuver (I believe it would also apply to R3-A2 if we ever see a ship with an Astromech slot and a auxiliary arc and/or we see a Modification that astromechs can be used for normal crew slots(I would like to see but I believe this has some really serious balance implications) 

 

Ya idk why i said that, still gotta get em at range 2 though. Engine upgrade can help alot in fudging that, but I would still say recon spec.

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I honestly don't think that Outmaneuver with Brath (or anyone else) is any great 3PO/Falcon killer.  You'll want to focus fire, and that means 3PO will be usable against someone.  I think TIE fighters are still the best anti-Falcon tool.  

This is true too. Maybe a fett mini swarm build. 

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I think either Fett or Brath with VI + a mini swarm might be a decent list.  How is a PS10 HLC going to affect a Phantom's plans? Especially with the Defender, they'll have to just guess each turn, that HLC could be pointed anywhere.

 

"I know what you're thinking.  You're thinking, 'is his dial a 3-turn or k-turn?'  Now to tell you the truth I forgot myself in all this excitement.  But being this is a Heavy Laser Cannon, the most powerful starfighter gun in the galaxy and it'll blow your wings clean off, you gotta ask your self a question:  'Do I feel lucky?'  Well, do ya, punk?"

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Boba Fett (39)

+ Engine Upgrade (4)

+ Seismic Charges (2)

+ Tactician (2)

+ Veteran Instincts (1)

 

Rexler Brath (37)

+ Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

+ Engine Upgrade (4)

+ Outmaneuver (3)

 

I would swap out Tactician for Navigator and call it a day.

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My vote would be for Navigator on Fett, but to each their own.

 

As with a great many lists, a lot of this will come down to flying it well. Navigator would give you a little more wiggle room in that department.

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I honestly don't think that Outmaneuver with Brath (or anyone else) is any great 3PO/Falcon killer.  You'll want to focus fire, and that means 3PO will be usable against someone.  I think TIE fighters are still the best anti-Falcon tool.  

 

The logical fallacy of your argument is that in any list with more than 1 ship OP30 is going to be used. Outmaneuver  onr Rexler HLC mitigates this by allowing you to roll 4 dice to his 0 evade; You can easily win a 1v1 if you trail his rear arc. TIEs are good as well, but swarms lose out to Phantom+mini swarms.

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Are we all actually ok with a list with only two ships and seven attack dice????

I'm okay with it if the OP is. I'm sure he understands the risks, and telling him he can't do it because it'll fail doesn't contribute anything.

I would definitely take Predator on Brath over Outmaneuver as well. You need a focus to make him worth it, but if you're saving the focus then you're rolling naked dice and hoping for damage. Even an HLC can't do that reliably. Predator allows for a modification while still keeping the focus for damage.

When I played with Chewie against Brath with predator and HLC he actually managed to inflict 4 damage and flip them all up. It was brutal but awesome.

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Hmmm, the good old predator vs outmaneuver debate :D

If you can reliably stay out of their arcs, outmaneuver is great, if not, then its not so great :D

 

As I've mentioned to a few friends, Rexlar's ability is great when it works, but I feel its more about giving you options. If you roll 1 hit and 3 eyes, you will use the focus to make 4 hits. If you roll 2-3 hits and 2-1 eyes, well, it'll depend who you are shooting at.

 

You don't have to use his ability, and vs low hull ships, its not that great, but it gives you the option to decide to use it or not. Obviously once we get fleet commander he'll probably see more use.

 

I prefer him to Vessary, as it feels you have to design a list around Vessary to make him work.

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I honestly don't think that Outmaneuver with Brath (or anyone else) is any great 3PO/Falcon killer.  You'll want to focus fire, and that means 3PO will be usable against someone.  I think TIE fighters are still the best anti-Falcon tool.  

 

The logical fallacy of your argument is that in any list with more than 1 ship OP30 is going to be used. Outmaneuver  onr Rexler HLC mitigates this by allowing you to roll 4 dice to his 0 evade; You can easily win a 1v1 if you trail his rear arc. TIEs are good as well, but swarms lose out to Phantom+mini swarms.

 

The main "problem" here would be Fett, because he has VI he shoots first against a Falcon and then it gets to use C3PO.

i.e. With this setup Rexler is best when he is the only one firing at the Falcon.

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Having just played against a list running two recon specs this evening, I can tell you right now that they can shut down anyone with an Opportunist/Wes build. Just some more food for thought.

That's a good point. Having tools against more match-ups is a good idea.

 

 

Are we all actually ok with a list with only two ships and seven attack dice????

I'm okay with it if the OP is. I'm sure he understands the risks...

Yep, as I said in the OP, it's a little bit crazy, but then again a recent 2-ship Rebel build has won a tournament (and top 16'd another).

 

 

 

I honestly don't think that Outmaneuver with Brath (or anyone else) is any great 3PO/Falcon killer.  You'll want to focus fire, and that means 3PO will be usable against someone.  I think TIE fighters are still the best anti-Falcon tool.  

 

The logical fallacy of your argument is that in any list with more than 1 ship OP30 is going to be used. Outmaneuver  onr Rexler HLC mitigates this by allowing you to roll 4 dice to his 0 evade; You can easily win a 1v1 if you trail his rear arc. TIEs are good as well, but swarms lose out to Phantom+mini swarms.

 

The main "problem" here would be Fett, because he has VI he shoots first against a Falcon and then it gets to use C3PO.

i.e. With this setup Rexler is best when he is the only one firing at the Falcon.

 

Against such a build, the idea would be to have Fett hunt down Chewie's escorts while Brath eats away at him with 4 dice vs 0. Even if you end up with a Fett vs Chewie fight at the end, you've still given your opponent a lot fewer uses of C3PO than he would've had against another match-up.

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I honestly don't think that Outmaneuver with Brath (or anyone else) is any great 3PO/Falcon killer.  You'll want to focus fire, and that means 3PO will be usable against someone.  I think TIE fighters are still the best anti-Falcon tool.  

 

The logical fallacy of your argument is that in any list with more than 1 ship OP30 is going to be used. Outmaneuver  onr Rexler HLC mitigates this by allowing you to roll 4 dice to his 0 evade; You can easily win a 1v1 if you trail his rear arc. TIEs are good as well, but swarms lose out to Phantom+mini swarms.

 

 

Are you sure about this?  It's hard to do the math on Falcon with Gunner/Luke and/or Predator, but my rough calculations suggest that Brath loses the straight up fight.  Remember, Falcon can pretty much always Evade, as it has the other things to boost offense.  It's a more expensive ship kitted this way, but it's more common, I think.  Without Falcon Title and Evade, it gets pretty close, but it's probably not something I'd bank on in the end game.  I assume concentrating fire is the best play, if it's an option.  My point is that you concentrate on a 3PO Falcon first, because they effectively have 1-2 extra hit points each turn, so it's best if you minimize the number of turns you have to shoot at them, which means more guns against 3PO/Falcon.  Then you turn your remaining guns on the escorts, because the escorts won't have the extra hit points each turn, so taking longer to kill them is acceptable.

 

Also, are you sure you've read my posts?  I advocated mini-swarm + PS 10 HLC carrier (Brath or Fett) to mitigate Phantoms. 

 

And seriously, I can't really believe I've seen two different people advocate for splitting fire as a good strategy.

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And seriously, I can't really believe I've seen two different people advocate for splitting fire as a good strategy.

 

 

If you think that I'm advocating splitting fire, you may want to re-read my post.

 

I get that it could be misunderstood that way, but nowhere did I say it was a good thing, just the best thing to do with a bad setup - if you want to use the abilities that is. (else, why take them?) :)

Edited by Keffisch

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It's an intriguing list. Normally, I would be all over Predator on Brath (the card was made for him), and I can understand why you would want Outmanuever (for C3-P0) I think the list would benefit most from giving Brath VI. 

 

Boba Fett + VI + Engine Upgrade + Gunner + Seismic Charges

Brath + VI + HLC + Engine Upgrade

 

Now you have 2 ships that will be moving last and attacking first. Gunner makes the most of Fett (as nothing sucks more than flubbing an attack on a low ship count list.) Fett doesnt need Navigator as he can swap his banks around and then Boost. 

 

VI lets Brath shoot first, and while you loose the possibility of accuracy through Predator to then pop crits, you gain in always being able to point him in the right direction. The problem with Han isnt 3P0 so much as Han boosting to get out of arcs and letting 3P0 handle his defence on the minimized targets. 

 

Also with both ships firing at PS 10, Whisper gets the short end of the stick. You will be moving and boosting with both ships after Whisper, which means you can get him into your arcs. And on top of that, Whisper will be at 2 agility and an evade. 

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And seriously, I can't really believe I've seen two different people advocate for splitting fire as a good strategy.

 

 

If you think that I'm advocating splitting fire, you may want to re-read my post.

 

I get that it could be misunderstood that way, but nowhere did I say it was a good thing, just the best thing to do with a bad setup - if you want to use the abilities that is. (else, why take them?) :)

 

You didn't say it explicitly, but you said that my argument wouldn't have merit if only the ship with Outmaneuver fired on the target, which suggests the other ships are firing on something different, which suggests splitting fire.  I think leaving a 3PO Falcon for the end game 1v1 is a serious mistake, and I think the numbers back me up, but if you don't, then you don't.  Anyway, you say you're not advocating splitting fire, so I'll chock it up to internet communication problems.

 

I think that there are legitimate reasons to take Outmaneuver.  It reduces the defense dice, which is always good.  I just don't think it should be relied on to beat 3PO Falcon by itself.  I think combining attacks against 3PO Falcon is always going to be better in the long run, because of that Evade action.

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