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SpikeSpiegel

Rebel Aces II?

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I think there's plenty that can be done with the Y-Wing that doesn't include just an increase in it's primary attack.

 

The whole point of the Y-Wing in this game at least, and in XvT was a slow tanky type ship that offered control.  I couldn't count the number of times my friend would blast me with Ion's in XvT then fly though my ship to destroy me...

 

So some of the things they could do is more turrets, perhaps a 3 dice blaster turret that only works on Y-Wings.  

Cheap torps, which may make them actually worth taking on the Y.

Perhaps a recon upgrade giving it more support options, like a AoE TL, so every ship in range 1 gets a blue TL on the same defender.  Maybe giving up the turret slot for this.

Giving up the turret slot for a bomb slot.

Reinforced shields that cause damage if the Y runs into another fighter.

 

There's all kinds of things you can do that keep the Y in the same role... Yet give it more options.

 

Edit: Oh and regarding the fluff... A early sketch had the Y-Wing, X-Wing and Tie Fighter all at about the same speed.  The idea of the Y-Wing being a slow tanky type ship wasn't part of the movies.

Edited by VanorDM
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How about a Y-wing mod/title.

 

Battle Computer (1 pt)

Modification. Y-wing only.

When you acquire a target lock you may choose to gain a target lock on all ships inside your firing arc that are within range 3. When you spend a target lock discard all your blue target lock tokens.

 

or

 

Advanced Targeting System (0 pts)

Turret Upgrade. Y-wing only.

At the beginning of the combat phase, if you have no blue target lock token and no stress, you may acquire a target lock on one ship inside your firing arc at range 1-3.

 

or more simply...

 

Longprobe (2 pts)

Title. Y-wing only.

When required to discard a blue target lock token, if you have no stress tokens, you may gain 1 stress token to keep the blue target lock token.

 

 

Points costs are up in the air a bit. But the idea for each is to give the Y-wing a bit of a boost to gaining/holding target locks. This would make it a more viable torpedo platform.

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How about a Y-wing mod/title.

 

Battle Computer (1 pt)

Modification. Y-wing only.

When you acquire a target lock you may choose to gain a target lock on all ships inside your firing arc that are within range 3. When you spend a target lock discard all your blue target lock tokens.

 

or

 

Advanced Targeting System (0 pts)

Turret Upgrade. Y-wing only.

At the beginning of the combat phase, if you have no blue target lock token and no stress, you may acquire a target lock on one ship inside your firing arc at range 1-3.

 

or more simply...

 

Longprobe (2 pts)

Title. Y-wing only.

When required to discard a blue target lock token, if you have no stress tokens, you may gain 1 stress token to keep the blue target lock token.

 

 

Points costs are up in the air a bit. But the idea for each is to give the Y-wing a bit of a boost to gaining/holding target locks. This would make it a more viable torpedo platform.

 

These are all interesting ideas. None of them would make people want to take the Y-wing without a turret viable, it would just make Ion Golds better. Personally I would rather encourage build diversity, where as some people have stated they would rather the naked Y-wing be intentionally left over-costed so you only take it with the turret.

Edited by MajorJuggler

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How about a Y-wing mod/title.

 

Battle Computer (1 pt)

Modification. Y-wing only.

When you acquire a target lock you may choose to gain a target lock on all ships inside your firing arc that are within range 3. When you spend a target lock discard all your blue target lock tokens.

 

or

 

Advanced Targeting System (0 pts)

Turret Upgrade. Y-wing only.

At the beginning of the combat phase, if you have no blue target lock token and no stress, you may acquire a target lock on one ship inside your firing arc at range 1-3.

 

or more simply...

 

Longprobe (2 pts)

Title. Y-wing only.

When required to discard a blue target lock token, if you have no stress tokens, you may gain 1 stress token to keep the blue target lock token.

 

 

Points costs are up in the air a bit. But the idea for each is to give the Y-wing a bit of a boost to gaining/holding target locks. This would make it a more viable torpedo platform.

 

These are all interesting ideas. None of them would make people want to take the Y-wing without a turret viable, it would just make Ion Golds better. Personally I would rather encourage build diversity, where as some people have stated they would rather the naked Y-wing be intentionally left over-costed so you only take it with the turret.

 

 

They were all based on the idea that though they might buff an Ion Gold a bit better they really shine when combined with torpedoes. The first doesn't really buff Ion Turret - except to allow you to cover more targets, but it only works in arc so of slightly limited use. The second uses the turret slot! The third would buff Ion Golds (but only a little) in that they would be gaining stress and would still have to shoot the same target turn on turn.

 

I propose one of the following modifications to the third to counter this..

Either:

Longprobe (1 pt)

Title. Y-wing only.

When required to discard a blue target lock token, if you have no stress tokens, you may gain 1 stress token to keep the blue target lock token.

Any equipped turret weapon may only fire in arc.

 

Or:

 

Longprobe (2 pts)

Title. Y-wing only.

When required to discard a blue target lock token, if you have no stress tokens and the locked target is in your firing arc, you may gain 1 stress token to keep the blue target lock token.

 

I also have the following additional possibilities.

Fire-Linked Ion Turret (2 pts)

Turret. Y-wing only.

Increase primary attack by 1. After you perform a primary attack that hits, the defender rolls 1 attack die, on a {hit} or {crit} the defender receives 1 ion token.

 

Fixed Turret (-1 pts)

Modification. Y-wing only. Turret Required.

Any equipped turret can only fire within your firing arc. Increase maximum range of equipped turret by 1 (to a maximum of 3).

 

ECM Module (2 pts)

Turret. Y-wing only.

You may spend red target lock tokens assigned to your ship as if they were a target lock you held on the holder of the related blue lock token.

Edited by Bilisknir
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Really excellent ideas there, Bilisknir. I especially like the fixed turret option. 

 

And the fire-linked ion cannon option! I've been advocating some sort of "fire-linked" ability for awhile now, but yours is elegantly simple. I love it!

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Really excellent ideas there, Bilisknir. I especially like the fixed turret option. 

 

And the fire-linked ion cannon option! I've been advocating some sort of "fire-linked" ability for awhile now, but yours is elegantly simple. I love it!

 Excuse me for interupting the off topic chatter,

but perhaps this got missed in the mix.

 

• BTL-A4  title card, maybe like the Charadaan refit (-2) for the A-wing, locking the turret backwards (-2), or removing it completely (-4), adding the Boost ability or evade.

• Longprobe title card that adds the system upgrade.

• BTL-S3 Courier title card that removes the turret, and adds a crew, with restrictions against attack related crew.

• Light Y-wing title card, another Charadaan-like refit that removes both Torpedo slots. perhaps adding boost or evade instead of the negative cost.

• Heavy Y-wing title card that allows for two bomb upgrade slots.

• Veteran title card, the obvious one, that gives the Y-wing an EPT slot.

• Ace title card, not the obvious one, but rather one that gives the Y-wing the Boost or evade ability.

• Astromech upgrade, a droid that will share target locks, like Dutch Vander's ability, but with two other ships like Fleet Officer.

• BTL-T2 Y-wing title card, removes the two proton torpedo slots for two extra shield.

• BTL-T2W title card,  extends the range of target locking for self and other ships.

• BTL-A6 Y-wing II "Recon" title card, like the long probe adds the system upgrade, but twice.

• BTL-E5 Y-wing title card, an ability that allows the removal of target locks within a range of 2.

• BTL-U8 "Easy Eight" Y-wing title card, heavily modified with two crew, more hull, less shields, and only the turret as the primary weapon. 

• BTL-M2 "Medium Bomber" title card, adds two crew and an extra torpedo slot, making the turret the primary weapon.

• BTL-E9 Y-wing title card, a ship capable of performing a Jam action, same range as the Rebel transport.

• BTL-T10/FO Y-wing title card,  if this ship is within range of a huge ship it doubles all target lock actions of the huge ship.

• BTL-TD11 Y-wing drone  title card... not even going there, until they introduce Kamikaze ramming rules. 

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How about a Y-wing mod/title.

 

Battle Computer (1 pt)

Modification. Y-wing only.

When you acquire a target lock you may choose to gain a target lock on all ships inside your firing arc that are within range 3. When you spend a target lock discard all your blue target lock tokens.

 

or

 

Advanced Targeting System (0 pts)

Turret Upgrade. Y-wing only.

At the beginning of the combat phase, if you have no blue target lock token and no stress, you may acquire a target lock on one ship inside your firing arc at range 1-3.

 

or more simply...

 

Longprobe (2 pts)

Title. Y-wing only.

When required to discard a blue target lock token, if you have no stress tokens, you may gain 1 stress token to keep the blue target lock token.

 

 

Points costs are up in the air a bit. But the idea for each is to give the Y-wing a bit of a boost to gaining/holding target locks. This would make it a more viable torpedo platform.

 

These are all interesting ideas. None of them would make people want to take the Y-wing without a turret viable, it would just make Ion Golds better. Personally I would rather encourage build diversity, where as some people have stated they would rather the naked Y-wing be intentionally left over-costed so you only take it with the turret.

 

 

Haven't gone through the who convo yet but what about the astromech slot? Instead of messing with point costs and structural changes maybe a few specialized R2 units could be the answer, such as adding range or adding Outmaneuver to the entire 360 arc. I like the Y-Wing as is but if we are going on a wish-list shopping spree then a bad a$$ droid could make a huge difference without altering the core ship. My 2 cents.

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Haven't gone through the who convo yet but what about the astromech slot? Instead of messing with point costs and structural changes maybe a few specialized R2 units could be the answer, such as adding range or adding Outmaneuver to the entire 360 arc. I like the Y-Wing as is but if we are going on a wish-list shopping spree then a bad a$$ droid could make a huge difference without altering the core ship. My 2 cents.

 

My mantra is that anything that increases viable build diversity is a good thing. So new droids and turrets are always good, as long as they are balanced. I personally would also like to see the naked Y-wing (no turret) viable without simultaneously making the turret Y-wing too powerful. You could do new droids and turrets in addition to helping out the naked Y-wings. But you have to be careful not to try and help out the naked Y-wing and just end up making the turreted version more appealing.

 

Alternatively, you can do nothing and just accept that Y-wings should never be run without a turret weapon.

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Alternatively, you can do nothing and just accept that Y-wings should never be run without a turret weapon.

Personally I think that a Y-Wing should always have a turret weapon of some sort. Every image of one I've seen has one, so IMO it's more fluffy to make changes that somehow incorporate one.

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How about a droid that allows a white zero forward move?

 

The Y-Wing just wasn't meant to be a dog fighter(in this game environment), it's a tanky support ship. If anyone advocates for boosting the Ys abilities then would you do the same for the Hawk to make it more of a dog fighter? While upgrades and such are good and there are some great ideas here I still think the core ship is fine. If the Ion Cannon is an auto add item then I guess that is how the game worked out.

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I suspect the tenor of the debate that exists in this thread might mirror that of the developers/testers trying to figure out what they can do to "update" the Y-Wing. If that's the case, I suppose iPeregrine's & WAAAGH's equivalents on that team are probably on suspension right now...

The only thing that I've read that makes any kind of sense at all is Vorpal's idea of more options for the turret above the Blaster vs Ion Cannon Turret. This would kill two birds, HWK and Y-Wing, with one stone. But how many different kinds of turrets can you have?

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Haven't gone through the who convo yet but what about the astromech slot? Instead of messing with point costs and structural changes maybe a few specialized R2 units could be the answer, such as adding range or adding Outmaneuver to the entire 360 arc. I like the Y-Wing as is but if we are going on a wish-list shopping spree then a bad a$$ droid could make a huge difference without altering the core ship. My 2 cents.

 

My mantra is that anything that increases viable build diversity is a good thing. So new droids and turrets are always good, as long as they are balanced. I personally would also like to see the naked Y-wing (no turret) viable without simultaneously making the turret Y-wing too powerful. You could do new droids and turrets in addition to helping out the naked Y-wings. But you have to be careful not to try and help out the naked Y-wing and just end up making the turreted version more appealing.

 

Alternatively, you can do nothing and just accept that Y-wings should never be run without a turret weapon.

 

 

Very true!! The only caveat I would add is that when you diversify one ship then it is possible the new abilities can spill over into the domain of another ship and then what you achieved is a group of ships that are more homogeneous. You lose the uniqueness of the individual ships, there are only so many variations before there will be overlap.

 

I would say the Advanced has suffered from this such that every role it could fill is better filled by another ship but altering the Advanced will only have it encroach on another ships "thing" and then the two ships are almost the same. Can't fly it as is and can't change it so it is trapped in it's own pigeon hole.

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Alternatively, you can do nothing and just accept that Y-wings should never be run without a turret weapon.

Personally I think that a Y-Wing should always have a turret weapon of some sort. Every image of one I've seen has one, so IMO it's more fluffy to make changes that somehow incorporate one.

 

 

The main issue with this approach is that the Y-wing needs to come with instructions that say:

 

WARNING: THIS SHIP IS TERRIBLE FOR ITS COST UNLESS YOU PUT A TURRET ON IT!*

 

 

* Blaster Turret sucks without action stacking, so it really needs to be an Ion Cannon Turret.

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It's weird, but I remember a few naked Y-wings doing pretty well as filler.

 

And really, we don't need a pack that completely redefines the Y-wing. New pilots and new upgrades like torpedoes, astromechs, and turrets will be perfectly fine.

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I would say the Advanced has suffered from this such that every role it could fill is better filled by another ship but altering the Advanced will only have it encroach on another ships "thing" and then the two ships are almost the same. Can't fly it as is and can't change it so it is trapped in it's own pigeon hole.

 

NA, what you described is actually the TIE bomber: it is a good jouster, but not as good as the TIE Fighter. The only thing it can do is carry missiles / torpedoes (almost universally over costed), or bombs (used, but not frequently).

 

The TIE Advanced is overcosted by 4 points (Vader less).

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It's weird, but I remember a few naked Y-wings doing pretty well as filler.

 

Pre-wave 4, yes: BXXYY was the standard 5 ship swarm. It's now completely obsolete in favor of BXXZZZ, because Z's are WAY better than Y's. It's not even close.

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Really excellent ideas there, Bilisknir. I especially like the fixed turret option. 

 

And the fire-linked ion cannon option! I've been advocating some sort of "fire-linked" ability for awhile now, but yours is elegantly simple. I love it!

 Excuse me for interupting the off topic chatter,

but perhaps this got missed in the mix.

 

• BTL-A4  title card, maybe like the Charadaan refit (-2) for the A-wing, locking the turret backwards (-2), or removing it completely (-4), adding the Boost ability or evade.

• Longprobe title card that adds the system upgrade.

• BTL-S3 Courier title card that removes the turret, and adds a crew, with restrictions against attack related crew.

• Light Y-wing title card, another Charadaan-like refit that removes both Torpedo slots. perhaps adding boost or evade instead of the negative cost.

• Heavy Y-wing title card that allows for two bomb upgrade slots.

• Veteran title card, the obvious one, that gives the Y-wing an EPT slot.

• Ace title card, not the obvious one, but rather one that gives the Y-wing the Boost or evade ability.

• Astromech upgrade, a droid that will share target locks, like Dutch Vander's ability, but with two other ships like Fleet Officer.

• BTL-T2 Y-wing title card, removes the two proton torpedo slots for two extra shield.

• BTL-T2W title card,  extends the range of target locking for self and other ships.

• BTL-A6 Y-wing II "Recon" title card, like the long probe adds the system upgrade, but twice.

• BTL-E5 Y-wing title card, an ability that allows the removal of target locks within a range of 2.

• BTL-U8 "Easy Eight" Y-wing title card, heavily modified with two crew, more hull, less shields, and only the turret as the primary weapon. 

• BTL-M2 "Medium Bomber" title card, adds two crew and an extra torpedo slot, making the turret the primary weapon.

• BTL-E9 Y-wing title card, a ship capable of performing a Jam action, same range as the Rebel transport.

• BTL-T10/FO Y-wing title card,  if this ship is within range of a huge ship it doubles all target lock actions of the huge ship.

• BTL-TD11 Y-wing drone  title card... not even going there, until they introduce Kamikaze ramming rules. 

 

 

This is a fun set for alternate Y-Wings. I am going to have to look up some of these and read up on them more. Nice list man!

:)

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The main issue with this approach is that the Y-wing needs to come with instructions that say:

Yeah but we all already know that, and anyone new to the game learns it pretty quickly. So I don't consider that to be a issue myself.

I'm not really against changes to the Y that make it viable without a turret, but if they were to release a Aces pack and everything did involve it, that wouldn't bother me at all.

That said I could see ways to make it useful as even more of a support ship, and give up the turret for because you're not using it to do damage.

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The main issue with this approach is that the Y-wing needs to come with instructions that say:

Yeah but we all already know that, and anyone new to the game learns it pretty quickly. So I don't consider that to be a issue myself.

 

I don't know. I have some friends that only play when they come over my house and they play for LOLzers. My best man swears by naked Y-wings... just because. First game he played, he fielded 5 of them... I only had 4 models so he proxied an X-wing.

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Really excellent ideas there, Bilisknir. I especially like the fixed turret option. 

 

And the fire-linked ion cannon option! I've been advocating some sort of "fire-linked" ability for awhile now, but yours is elegantly simple. I love it!

 Excuse me for interupting the off topic chatter,

but perhaps this got missed in the mix.

 

• BTL-A4  title card, maybe like the Charadaan refit (-2) for the A-wing, locking the turret backwards (-2), or removing it completely (-4), adding the Boost ability or evade.

• Longprobe title card that adds the system upgrade.

• BTL-S3 Courier title card that removes the turret, and adds a crew, with restrictions against attack related crew.

• Light Y-wing title card, another Charadaan-like refit that removes both Torpedo slots. perhaps adding boost or evade instead of the negative cost.

• Heavy Y-wing title card that allows for two bomb upgrade slots.

• Veteran title card, the obvious one, that gives the Y-wing an EPT slot.

• Ace title card, not the obvious one, but rather one that gives the Y-wing the Boost or evade ability.

• Astromech upgrade, a droid that will share target locks, like Dutch Vander's ability, but with two other ships like Fleet Officer.

• BTL-T2 Y-wing title card, removes the two proton torpedo slots for two extra shield.

• BTL-T2W title card,  extends the range of target locking for self and other ships.

• BTL-A6 Y-wing II "Recon" title card, like the long probe adds the system upgrade, but twice.

• BTL-E5 Y-wing title card, an ability that allows the removal of target locks within a range of 2.

• BTL-U8 "Easy Eight" Y-wing title card, heavily modified with two crew, more hull, less shields, and only the turret as the primary weapon. 

• BTL-M2 "Medium Bomber" title card, adds two crew and an extra torpedo slot, making the turret the primary weapon.

• BTL-E9 Y-wing title card, a ship capable of performing a Jam action, same range as the Rebel transport.

• BTL-T10/FO Y-wing title card,  if this ship is within range of a huge ship it doubles all target lock actions of the huge ship.

• BTL-TD11 Y-wing drone  title card... not even going there, until they introduce Kamikaze ramming rules. 

 

 

This is a fun set for alternate Y-Wings. I am going to have to look up some of these and read up on them more. Nice list man!

:)

 

Star-Wars-Decor-Y-Wing.jpg

Cheers to the Y-wing love.

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