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SpikeSpiegel

Rebel Aces II?

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I like y-wings and fly them.  Are they really that underpowered as it is?  I do think they need more pilots and some adjustments, but they don't seem as bad as the TIE advanced and their cost seems about right.  They're also fun to fly, especially with an R2.  If I want a turreted ship I almost always take them over the HWK, a ship I really dislike.

 

Anyway, maybe the reason FFG didn't put the y-wing in rebel aces is because they're planning on releasing imperial huge ships first.  It would make sense to release updated y-wings after that, as ships optimized to take down these capital ships. (or whatever you want to call them).   I think that would be an interesting set of expansions, fluff wise -- updated y-wings and tie bombers to counter capital ships, and possibly large ships like the decimator/yt2400.

 

To be clear, I don't think these capital ships need counters, but it would be a nice way to spin off a series of upgrade packs for bombers and y-wings. 

 

 

 

...the y-wing just isn't a very exciting ship and fluff-wise is borderline obsolete.


Didn't you already get beaten about the head adn shoulders over this point? There's no question in my mind that Y-wings do need their own Aces treatment.

 

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Anyway, maybe the reason FFG didn't put the y-wing in rebel aces is because they're planning on releasing imperial huge ships first.  It would make sense to release updated y-wings after that, as ships optimized to take down these capital ships. (or whatever you want to call them).   I think that would be an interesting set of expansions, fluff wise -- updated y-wings and tie bombers to counter capital ships, and possibly large ships like the decimator/yt2400.

 

To be clear, I don't think these capital ships need counters, but it would be a nice way to spin off a series of upgrade packs for bombers and y-wings. 

 

 

 

 

This is an interesting thought.  Although I don't think that FFG would do a release of cards-only upgrade packs or a combined TIE bomber/ Y-wing box.  Maybe they will do a box with two Ys or two bombers in it with new options.  Or, possibly single ship packs with revamped ships - I would love to see that.  

 

I also agree that the y-wing isn't underpowered, but rather lacking variety in play.  You almost never see them without the ICT.  And that's fine, but I would like to see a kit that didn't increase their power overall but gave them some other options just as viable as the ICT.

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That doesn't mean you are making quality posts

Didn't say he was. Was replying to the post immediately before mine. The previous poster asked where Waaagh's statement came from and I pointed out the insanely high number. The probability of someone else exceeding that is low.

Low probability, you say? Check my profile; including this one, I currently have 1,685 likes to 1,449 posts. Mwa ha ha.

 

Rebel Aces is probably paying homage to this game expansion by including the A and B-Wing and Keyan Farlander, so it could be possible that they're saving a "part II" of that homage for the X and Y-Wing for a later release.

To summarize my thoughts on the actual topic, I think we're unlikely to see another X-wing content refresh any time soon due to the still-fresh release of the Transport. On the Rebel side, in order of release date, the ships that haven't yet had a refresh are:

  • Y-wing
  • YT-1300
  • HWK
  • E-wing
  • Z-95
Edited by Vorpal Sword

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That doesn't mean you are making quality posts

Didn't say he was. Was replying to the post immediately before mine. The previous poster asked where Waaagh's statement came from and I pointed out the insanely high number. The probability of someone else exceeding that is low.

 

Low probability, you say? Check my profile; including this one, I currently have 1,685 likes to 1,449 posts. Mwa ha ha.

 

Rebel Aces is probably paying homage to this game expansion by including the A and B-Wing and Keyan Farlander, so it could be possible that they're saving a "part II" of that homage for the X and Y-Wing for a later release.

To summarize my thoughts on the actual topic, I think we're unlikely to see another X-wing content refresh any time soon due to the still-fresh release of the Transport. On the Rebel side, in order of release date, the ships that haven't yet had a refresh are:

  • Y-wing
  • YT-1300
  • HWK
  • E-wing
  • Z-95

 

Yeah, the Phantom and Defender need a refresh too.

 

*derp*

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On the Rebel side, in order of release date, the ships that haven't yet had a refresh are:

  • Y-wing
  • YT-1300
  • HWK
  • E-wing
  • Z-95
 

Yeah, the Phantom and Defender need a refresh too.

 

*derp*

In a thread called "Rebel Aces II?", I posted a list of the Rebel ships that haven't had content refreshes. That's not the same as stating a preference.

If it were me running things, I'd design a pack for the Y-wing and HWK that introduced a couple of new turrets, a couple of new torpedoes, a generic Y-wing-friendly astromech, a new unique Rebel crew and a new general crew, and a generic PS5 HWK with an EPT. They're both potentially great ships, with some love.

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OP you've made me feel very old. I haven't thought about the B-Wing expansion for X-Wing in twenty years, I was 15 back then. The Royal Guard Interceptor came from the Star Wars Galaxies Rage of the Wookies expansion, and I hated it with a passion and yet I flew it because stats wise it was exactly like the basic TIE Interceptor, except with more mass so it was able to compete with other "end game" fighters. The more mass a ship had in Galaxies the heavier and sometimes better parts you could equip it with. The Royal Guard ship was just a larger mass Interceptor in that game that you got as a reward from a mission that had nothing at all to do with the Royal Guard. Jax and Kir were never shown flying one.  I do like the concept A-Wing paint job, I forget what the poster came with but I had poster as a kid that they used for the artwork on the card and of course the Dagger squadron B-WIng. They 110% perfectly matched it with how one of them looked in the comics.

 

There are a bunch of Rebel ship paintjobs they can do, but the Empire is pretty limited other than like one of the other guys mentioned. The blue hulls of the ESB and ROTJ TIE's. There isn't much more they could for the Empire, maybe a white hulled TIE Fighter. Not very exciteing. Of course they could go all crazy and paint up a rebel TIE Fighter like the ones Biggs and the others had when they defected.

 

All this talk about Y-Wing aces, you know what would be perfect for the Y-Wing ace ? a fully armored Y-Wing, not the clone wars version, the classic ANH Y-Wing with the armor plates on the hull. That would be pretty cool.

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Does it need to be restated that Rebel Aces or Imperial Aces is just a name for the expansion? They can just call it whatever they want. There is zero logic behind the idea that what they call the packaging has anything to do with what they have to put into it. You name the product after you've designed it. It's just a name to go with a SKI.

Yeah, what kind of idiot designs a product that matches the theme of the name for that product? Screw the fluff, let's just put a HWK in the box with the new imperial huge ship because it needs some balance work.

Expansion with a bunch of test pilots in it with new model ships, boom Rebel Aces. You want a Y-wing and X-wing box? Boom, Heroes of the Rebellion. I give FFG full permission to use that awesome product name.

Heroes of the rebellion is not rebel aces.

FFS, why is this so complicated? FFG was inevitably going to make a rebel aces expansion to mirror the imperial aces expansion, and that means keeping the same theme. I have nothing against the y-wing getting some balance help in a future expansion, but it wasn't appropriate for this one.

 

If FFG wants to put a HWK in an Imperial Huge, they can and can call it an Imperial Intelligence ship and then bam we have a fixed HWK, and it fit the "theme"  The fluff is whatever the designers of the game and authors/screenwriters and Lucasfilm(Disney) say it is, I cannot personally say oh it makes more sense for X to have happened and thus ignore everything in the "official" timeline that I don't like.

 

And Heroes of the Rebellion and Rebel Aces for all intents and purposes are the same thing. Personally I think Heroes of Rebellion sounds better than Rebel Aces (anyone who qualifies as a "Hero of the Rebellion" would probably have at least 5 kills and thus would be considered an Ace anyways and they would be a Rebel so they would be Rebel Aces).  Imperial Aces was called that probably because "Heroes of the Empire" wouldn't make sense to a lot of people (why do the "bad guys" have heroes?) And just because they name one product something they can do whatever.  

 

They probably either focus group tested the Rebel Aces over Heroes of the Rebellion for marketing, decided to save that name for later, or never even thought of using that name, either way there is no point in being derogatory and overly confrontational  about a hypothetical product name for a game based on a sci-fiction franchise

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He has a Likes Per Post greater than 1.

That doesn't mean you are making quality posts, but that you say stuff that people agree with often enough (or find funny). 

 

Major Juggler has a lower Like per post ratio (way lower) and in the short time i had been here i had seen him giving more helpful contribution and quality posting. In my experience, "likes" system just promote circle jerks and fine use of rethoric instead of constructive discussion to ***** like points.

 

Edit - Btw, i don't consider myself a quality poster, but a goofy one, and i don't dislike Wonderwaaagh, but i really find the like discussion quite unproductive for the reasons i stated. Cheers.

 

 

"Likes" are a weird thing on this forum. There is no "dislike", so the more polarizing the comment, the more likely it will attract attention and get "liked".

 

Conversely, the 2014 Regionals thread is the #1 most replied topic*, and the #2 most viewed topic*, but only has 12 likes in the first 3 summary posts.

 

* Of course half of those are probably me maintaining and checking the thread.  ;)

 

 

As far as the Y-wing goes... the Y-wing with an Ion Cannon Turret is just fine. Without it, it is completely obsolete. If I were designing a Y-wing expansion it would include at least the following:

  • "Bomb Bay Refit" Y-wing-only turret upgrade (see below)
  • add a new turret weapon (still thinking about this one)
  • 2 new Y-wing pilots with useful abilities
  • reprint Horton with an EPT (update original Y-wing expansion with Horton EPT, and retroactively Errata / FAQ him so he has an EPT)

 

Bomb Bay Refit

Turret Weapon. Y-wing only.

Cost: -2

This ship gains the [bomb] slot.

Edited by MajorJuggler
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Watch your mouth. Do you know how popular he is according to an arbitrary rating system on an internet forum that caters to a Star Wars table top game?

 

That's what I thought... cast aside your keyboard in shame.

 

...

 

In all seriousness, wow. Sometimes I access a topic on this forum and I think that I mistakenly clicked my way back into the 7th grade.

NotBatman, gentgeen, jme and 1 other like this

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He has a Likes Per Post greater than 1.

That doesn't mean you are making quality posts, but that you say stuff that people agree with often enough (or find funny). 

 

Major Juggler has a lower Like per post ratio (way lower) and in the short time i had been here i had seen him giving more helpful contribution and quality posting. In my experience, "likes" system just promote circle jerks and fine use of rethoric instead of constructive discussion to ***** like points.

 

Edit - Btw, i don't consider myself a quality poster, but a goofy one, and i don't dislike Wonderwaaagh, but i really find the like discussion quite unproductive for the reasons i stated. Cheers.

 

 

"Likes" are a weird thing on this forum. There is no "dislike", so the more polarizing the comment, the more likely it will attract attention and get "liked".

 

Conversely, the 2014 Regionals thread is the #1 most replied topic*, and the #2 most viewed topic*, but only has 12 likes in the first 3 summary posts.

 

* Of course half of those are probably me maintaining and checking the thread.  ;)

 

 

As far as the Y-wing goes... the Y-wing with an Ion Cannon Turret is just fine. Without it, it is completely obsolete. If I were designing a Y-wing expansion it would include at least the following:

  • "Bomb Bay Refit" Y-wing-only turret upgrade (see below)
  • add a new turret weapon (still thinking about this one)
  • 2 new Y-wing pilots with useful abilities
  • reprint Horton with an EPT (update original Y-wing expansion with Horton EPT, and retroactively Errata / FAQ him so he has an EPT)

 

Bomb Bay Refit

Turret Weapon. Y-wing only.

Cost: -2

This ship gains the [bomb] slot.

 

I agree with almost everything except maybe instead of a taking a turret slot and making it 2 points cheaper i would just have it take a Torpedo slot, and cost 0 points After all Y-wings don't remove their turrets for Bomb runs they just don't carry as many torpedoes

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reprint Horton with an EPT (update original Y-wing expansion with Horton EPT, and retroactively Errata / FAQ him so he has an EPT)

 

More likely they'd do an A-wing-esque title card. "Defender Wing" or something. They don't like errata where it can be avoided, Daredevil they didn't have any choice.

Edited by Lagomorphia

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Watch your mouth. Do you know how popular he is according to an arbitrary rating system on an internet forum that caters to a Star Wars table top game?

 

That's what I thought... cast aside your keyboard in shame.

 

...

 

In all seriousness, wow. Sometimes I access a topic on this forum and I think that I mistakenly clicked my way back into the 7th grade.

 

I'm not sure what you're talking about, since nobody here said anything about popularity.

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...the y-wing just isn't a very exciting ship and fluff-wise is borderline obsolete.

Didn't you already get beaten about the head adn shoulders over this point? There's no question in my mind that Y-wings do need their own Aces treatment.

Yes, and quite severely I might add - on both accounts.

 

Didn't you already get beaten about the head adn shoulders over this point? There's no question in my mind that Y-wings do need their own Aces treatment.

A certain obnoxious narcissist spamming about how awesome he is does not qualify as "beating". And I never said that the y-wing doesn't need balance help, I said it wasn't an appropriate choice for this expansion. I will be happy when FFG publishes a "boring obsolete ships that can still contribute something" expansion that gives the y-wing an EPT and a blaster turret equivalent that doesn't suck.
I'm the most liked poster on this board, surely it's not narcissism if it's true. Besides, you're the one who keeps declaring me the winner of the internet. Shouldn't I have a trophy by now?
Sorry, have to weigh in here.

WAAAGH is one of the most entertaining posters on this board. Hands down. There's something wonderful about watching intelligent people get sucked down the troll rabbit hole. He's one of the best billy-goats there is!

Second, the Y-Wing is the Cadillac of the Rebel fleet. I fear if it got any better it'd seriously disrupt the balance of the Force. This is already a great ship not in need of an update.

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...the Y-Wing is the Cadillac of the Rebel fleet. I fear if it got any better it'd seriously disrupt the balance of the Force. This is already a great ship not in need of an update.

 

 

I like the Y-wing. I use it frequently, and defend it to people who don't get how much fun it can be--but I won't argue that it doesn't need an update.

  • How often do you see Y-wings run in general?
  • How often do you see Gray Squadron and Horton run by competitive players?
  • Which turret appears more often on Y-wings, and how often is the other used?
  • How often do other upgrades appear on Y-wings?

Basically, there are two builds for Y-wings: Gold Squadron Pilot + Ion Cannon Turret and Dutch Vander + Ion Cannon Turret. Before Wave 4 R5 or R2 units appeared, but even less frequently than the ship itself; now Dutch is a great platform for R7-T1 and R7 Astromech is a good way to stretch the Y-wing's already-impressive defense, and it's too soon to say if either one will really make an impact on the metagame. But I'm guessing not.

 

Y-wings are already balanced, and they have a definite niche, but they don't have options. That's what a content refresh could do for them, and I hope it happens sooner rather than later.

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  • add a new turret weapon (still thinking about this one)

What I'd do, is an upgrade that does nothing more then allow the Y-Wing to use the blaster turret without needing to spend a focus.

Either as an upgrade that removes the focus cost, or else a Y-Wing only version that doesn't cost a focus. Effectively the same thing, so it would all be up to the fluff.

To that end I'd make a title the BTL-S3, so it would represent a crew slot filled with a turret gunner. Make it cost a point, effectively making a no cost blaster turret cost 5 points.

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Blaster Turret costing a focus was just plain stupid. It makes it junk on anyone who isn't Kyle. The solution's RecSpec, which makes it a seven point turret that eats your crew slot. I'd rather have just had it a 7 point turret.

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What about an upgrade/modification that simply permits you to use the Y-Wing's primary attack value as a turret? I'd be worried that it makes it too much like the YT-2400, but the latter ship has a lot of other things going on for it.

Edited by WonderWAAAGH

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As far as the Y-wing goes... the Y-wing with an Ion Cannon Turret is just fine. Without it, it is completely obsolete. If I were designing a Y-wing expansion it would include at least the following:

  • "Bomb Bay Refit" Y-wing-only turret upgrade (see below)
  • add a new turret weapon (still thinking about this one)
  • 2 new Y-wing pilots with useful abilities
  • reprint Horton with an EPT (update original Y-wing expansion with Horton EPT, and retroactively Errata / FAQ him so he has an EPT)

 

Bomb Bay Refit

Turret Weapon. Y-wing only.

Cost: -2

This ship gains the [bomb] slot.

 

I agree with almost everything except maybe instead of a taking a turret slot and making it 2 points cheaper i would just have it take a Torpedo slot, and cost 0 points After all Y-wings don't remove their turrets for Bomb runs they just don't carry as many torpedoes

 

 

I am approaching it more from a game mechanics and balance perspective. As long as the Y-wing has the capability of taking an Ion Cannon Turret, it really doesn't need any buffs. But without the turret it's basically useless now that the Z-95 is here. The only possible balanced solution is to provide a buff that simultaneously takes away the Turret slot, otherwise people will still take Ion Y-wings... they'll just be buffed, and you still wouldn't see turretless Y-wing use.

 

There is a long list of things that FFG has done that aren't 100% in line with background material, but it makes for a better game. This would be one example of that.

Edited by MajorJuggler

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...the y-wing just isn't a very exciting ship and fluff-wise is borderline obsolete.

Didn't you already get beaten about the head adn shoulders over this point? There's no question in my mind that Y-wings do need their own Aces treatment.

Yes, and quite severely I might add - on both accounts.

 

 

Didn't you already get beaten about the head adn shoulders over this point? There's no question in my mind that Y-wings do need their own Aces treatment.

A certain obnoxious narcissist spamming about how awesome he is does not qualify as "beating". And I never said that the y-wing doesn't need balance help, I said it wasn't an appropriate choice for this expansion. I will be happy when FFG publishes a "boring obsolete ships that can still contribute something" expansion that gives the y-wing an EPT and a blaster turret equivalent that doesn't suck.

I'm the most liked poster on this board, surely it's not narcissism if it's true. Besides, you're the one who keeps declaring me the winner of the internet. Shouldn't I have a trophy by now?

 

 

Wait, how do you know he's talking about you??? :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

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I've enjoyed using Y-Wings, but always with an Ion Cannon Turret. I'd like to see them get the aces treatment just to get a few more pilots, but I don't think they need anything like the A-Wing buff. And I don't think we'll see two I an aces pack simply because the only repaint I imagine FFG doing is the gray squadron colors.

So, aces wise my money would go on the second ship being an E-Wing or Z-95. A Hawk would be too many support ships in one box.

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