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Urrgok

What's the word on the Tie Advanced?

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So I have a question.  A number of people have mentioned the survivability and tankiness of the Advanced.  Has anyone run them in tournament since the change that winning by 12 points is a full win, instead of a modified?  I was just wondering if that rule helped make them a little more viable.

 

Not particularly. The last event I was at I did use three TIE advanced (Vader, Stele, Tempest Squadron Pilot), because I'm a contrary bugger.

 

The "12 point difference" didn't really come into is as all the games went to a clear win or (more normally) a wipe-out. I'd like to be clear that that wasn't all bad results - I won two games, one of which was against Chewbacca and two FCS B-wings, and one against Wedge, Roark and two Rookies. I'll say this - if a game is reduced to a single-ship duel by the end (and it often is!) then there are far worse ships to be in than a TIE Advanced.

 

One thing to note is that I took a hull upgrade on each. This makes them as tough (arguably tougher with Evade tokens) than a TIE defender which costs a good 5 points more. The advantage of a pure Advanced force is it leaves no squishy ships to shoot at, which forces people to shoot at your tough, highly evasive fighters.

 

They are good one-on-one dueling ships - they aren't as manouvrable as a standard TIE but they're manouvrable enough that they can do nasty things to Rebels.

 

Four tempests with Proton Rockets sounds interesting but I'm pointedly aware that what you've essentially made is a 4-ship, Pilot Skill 1, X-wing squad, which there are plenty of ways to deal with.

 

Proton Rockets will help. If anything, they'll help the Tempest and Storm squadron pilot more, because a focus token is a generic response by a low-skill pilot, but they'll add much needed power to Vader and Stele too. I look forward to more games with Advanced!

 

I don't think I want more attack dice. The advanced has only the two lasers, and I don't want +1 attack die modifications floating around out there.

 

When asked for upgrades, people always talk about overcharged lasers and/or the targeting system - suggesting adding a systems slot would provide quite a lot of benefit and seems to be the 'received wisdom' from the forum. Alternatively, for the overpowered lasers, I find myself thinking about "when attacking, if you hit with a primary weapon attack, cause 1 additional damage" - i.e. no easier to hit, but punching much harder if you do....

rym, stegocent and z0m4d like this

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So I have a question.  A number of people have mentioned the survivability and tankiness of the Advanced.  Has anyone run them in tournament since the change that winning by 12 points is a full win, instead of a modified?  I was just wondering if that rule helped make them a little more viable.

 

Not particularly. The last event I was at I did use three TIE advanced (Vader, Stele, Tempest Squadron Pilot), because I'm a contrary bugger.

 

The "12 point difference" didn't really come into is as all the games went to a clear win or (more normally) a wipe-out. I'd like to be clear that that wasn't all bad results - I won two games, one of which was against Chewbacca and two FCS B-wings, and one against Wedge, Roark and two Rookies. I'll say this - if a game is reduced to a single-ship duel by the end (and it often is!) then there are far worse ships to be in than a TIE Advanced.

 

One thing to note is that I took a hull upgrade on each. This makes them as tough (arguably tougher with Evade tokens) than a TIE defender which costs a good 5 points more. The advantage of a pure Advanced force is it leaves no squishy ships to shoot at, which forces people to shoot at your tough, highly evasive fighters.

 

They are good one-on-one dueling ships - they aren't as manouvrable as a standard TIE but they're manouvrable enough that they can do nasty things to Rebels.

 

Four tempests with Proton Rockets sounds interesting but I'm pointedly aware that what you've essentially made is a 4-ship, Pilot Skill 1, X-wing squad, which there are plenty of ways to deal with.

 

Proton Rockets will help. If anything, they'll help the Tempest and Storm squadron pilot more, because a focus token is a generic response by a low-skill pilot, but they'll add much needed power to Vader and Stele too. I look forward to more games with Advanced!

 

I don't think I want more attack dice. The advanced has only the two lasers, and I don't want +1 attack die modifications floating around out there.

 

When asked for upgrades, people always talk about overcharged lasers and/or the targeting system - suggesting adding a systems slot would provide quite a lot of benefit and seems to be the 'received wisdom' from the forum. Alternatively, for the overpowered lasers, I find myself thinking about "when attacking, if you hit with a primary weapon attack, cause 1 additional damage" - i.e. no easier to hit, but punching much harder if you do....

 

So you're considering a "Boosted TIE Cannon" kind of thing, if i may drag the old Decipher CCG out.

 

(Found my huge stash of cards last night)

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You really only need one TIE Advanced. I feel sorry for those who really invested more than two...

Vadar is the only pilot you need for that ship and a swarm!

Mikael Hasselstein likes this

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So I have a question.  A number of people have mentioned the survivability and tankiness of the Advanced.  Has anyone run them in tournament since the change that winning by 12 points is a full win, instead of a modified?  I was just wondering if that rule helped make them a little more viable.

No, but it's hard to imagine a Tempest Squadron Pilot would be more of an asset in that sense than a Scimitar Squadron Pilot (very different dials, but comparable action bars, offensive contribution, and defensive efficiency)--and I have played against naked Scimitars. So even if you're just planning on tanking your way to a win, I'm not sure the Advanced holds up.

 

To be fair, I consider the Advanced to have a more defensive efficiency than a Bomber: 1 more green dice, Evade action and 3 hull/2 shield instead of 6 hull. The more the game evolve, the more easy it is to inflict a critical hit so even though there is one less hit point, I prefer 2 shield over 3 hull. But is this defensive efficiency worth 5 more points? No.

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So, to reiterate somewhat, I don't think the Advanced actually has a cost problem--I think it has an ignorability problem. That's why a Chardaan-Refit-style fix won't work for the Advanced, actually, and why I think whatever FFG comes up with for the Advanced is going to have to be a lot tricksier.

 

Exactly the point I was trying to make. Even if priced correctly, I'm not sure a lot of people would currently take it over something else, except for flavour.

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My money is on them releasing new TIE-Advanced pilots and upgrades like the did with the X-Wings, in the Imperial huge ships. 

I would certainly be OK with this

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I have pondered the Advanced for a long time and I originally thought that a systems slot would be the fix it needed, but I have come to the conclusion it just needs the Tie Fighter dial and maybe, maybe an EPT slot on the PS4 version.

 

The extra movement options provided by the Tie dial would make it viable at the current points cost.

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You really only need one TIE Advanced. I feel sorry for those who really invested more than two...

Vadar is the only pilot you need for that ship and a swarm!

 

I feel the same way. Vader is the most iconic character of the franchise. He should be unique.

 

Now, we can debate if he costs too much for how much he is worth from a mechanical sense. But, if so, how much would you cost him at, and what is your rationale for that new point value?

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Vader's stressless PTL is going to match up pretty well against Wedge. Especially since he can simply guarantee an Evade if he feels like it to offset Wedge's ability.

 

Trust me, test out Engine Upgrade and/or Outmaneuver. Vader is good.

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Vader's cost is perfectly fine.

 

Not really. Put Vader against the same cost Wedge. Wedge is going to win 98% of the time.

 

But is that because you're using Vader out of his natural element in that set-up? I use Vader (with Engine Upgrade) as a flanker, and I really enjoy doing boost+barrel roll (or barrel roll+boost) in order to get out of enemy ships' arcs, and then shoot them down. That's much less easy to do when your opponent is gunning for just you in the head-to-head that you suggest.

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As long as it isn't anything idiotic like raising the Advance's attack value, I'm not too worried about any boosts for the Advanced. Vader is good, but he still isn't a super power.

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Yeah, I hardly see that as relevant, let alone a barrier to my suggestion above. Nobody is going to see an upgrade card that reads "non-X1 only" and start fussing over the dial of a ship that's been out for nearly two years already.

Edited by WonderWAAAGH

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As long as it isn't anything idiotic like raising the Advance's attack value, I'm not too worried about any boosts for the Advanced. Vader is good, but he still isn't a super power.

True! Space wizards are completely different from space superheroes.

The only issue with that bit of rules lawyering is, what dial does Vader use?

Yup. And I think it's actually important that Vader be included in any potential fix, since his ability is great but he still suffers from the same problem. He's great at maneuvering, particularly with Engine Upgrade, but that makes him really expensive. The availability of TL+F stack at a moment's notice means he can max out his 2 attack dice really reliably, but he's still stuck at 2 dice. He's much more employable than the rest of the Advanced lineup, but that's a low bar to get over, and for the points he takes up I'd still rather take a Phantom or Firespray most of time.

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Except, it is extremely relevant once you do start making it relevant in game, ie with specific upgrades. There are far easier was of separating the other pilots from Vader without making the "different" ships an issue.

 

That is why I love Outmaneuver on Vader. Yes, stupidly expensive, but fun.

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Except, it is extremely relevant once you do start making it relevant in game, ie with specific upgrades. There are far easier was of separating the other pilots from Vader without making the "different" ships an issue.

That is why I love Outmaneuver on Vader. Yes, stupidly expensive, but fun.

If it could be relevant at all, then it already would be. A specific upgrade card wouldn't be any more confusing than the actual pilot cards already are.

 

270px-Darth_Vader.png270px-Maarek_Stele.png

 

Are you confused about which dial to use with each of these pilots? No? Then I don't see the issue. The proposed "fix" is a lot more simple than you give it credit for. That is, assuming it's even necessary in the first place.

Edited by WonderWAAAGH

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Generally it's overpriced for what you get. However Vader with Daredevil, proton rockets and an engine upgrade is arguably the most maneuverable ship in the game and packs a vicious punch and clocks in at 39 points.

I play Vader (concussion missiles now) with Soontir+Daredevil+TC and Turr +VI+Stealth and haven't lost to any list at the comic shop I play at.

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With the people I play with everyone wants a Vader trophy on their wall.  Vader is flying with a huge target on his back that allows the rest of my squad to go to work.  I usually run him like this:

Vader with Expert Handling and a Stealth Device (34 points)

He shakes target locks and has 4 defense dice making him a slippery flanker that draws a lot of fire and has a lot of durability.

 

Does he "earn" his 34 points back by killing 34 points of enemy ships?  Sometimes.  But how can you measure him drawing a lot of enemy fire away from my main squad so they can do the heavy lifting?  I measure it by winning and I win a lot with Vader.

 

I don't own an Advanced, but I borrow from a buddy and use my own upgrade cards.  It is on my "to buy" list.

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And therein lies the problem with any Advanced fixes.  How to do it without making Vader OP

 

House Rule

 

Modification: TIE Advanced only

Cost: -1 for Vader, -2 all others

This ship may equip a Fire Control System at zero cost.

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